Talk:London Underground 2024 Stock

Driverless trains
I added information about safety of driverless metros in other countries (in the section about safety concerns over the new trains being driverless) but this was deleted by Alarics under the heading "RV editorialising" - can someone explain why this was or should I undo this action? Absolutelypuremilk (talk) 20:58, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * The sentences you added in two places to this article gave the impression that Wikipedia itself was taking a view that any opposition to driverless trains was unreasonable because such systems exist elsewhere. In fact it is all much more complicated than that. The comparison with automatic metros in other countries (or with the DLR in London, for that matter) is false because those are all recently built systems, whereas it would be impossible to have driverless trains on London's deep tube lines in anything like their existing form, for a whole string of reasons, such as that they don't have a passenger walkway beside the tracks between stations, which would be necessary in the event of having to evacuate the passengers. We could clarify matters by saying all that, but that would be WP:OR. -- Alarics (talk) 22:37, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Have you asked directly? Whether you have or have not, don't undo their edit without discussion and agreement, see WP:BRD and WP:EW. I expect their concern was in relation to WP:EDITORIALISING also WP:NPOV. -- Red rose64 (talk) 22:42, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Right OK that makes sense - thanks for the info, I was just a bit confused to start with as to why it had disappeared! Absolutelypuremilk (talk) 07:29, 13 August 2015 (UTC)


 * The biggest "controversy" seems to be the possibility of driverless trains, but this issue was mentioned in this year old video by a seemingly official source that states that even if operation were automatic there would still be an engineer present. B137 (talk) 23:34, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

It may just be me, but I don't see why the opening paragraph contains this statement 'already in effect on London's DLR and other cities metro lines' when saying that the transport unions have issues with driverless trains. To me, I would say that it's in a way implying that the unions stance on the matter is wrong, because driverless trains exist elsewhere. The fact that driverless trains exist elsewhere, I would argue is irrelevant. I personally would say the statement should be removed. Not entirely sure if this is connected to the above. IAFYM (talk) 05:18, 26 December 2015 (UTC)
 * ✅ -- Alarics (talk) 21:21, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

rewrite and additions
Had a good go at rewriting this given the contract has been awarded - still got to find some sources for overall project cost for all the lines, the business case ratio, info on any other bidders and using the datasheet from siemens to build an info box for the new train. :) Turini2 (talk) 12:52, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Added, but still not sure on the infobox layout/reference. Also, I put in a "some have called this 2024 stock but it hasn't been confirmed by TfL" yet sentence, so feel free to edit that if it's still too WP:CRYSTAL Turini2 (talk) 13:53, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Piccadilly is NOT the only line it will operate on
You guys have to remember that the Piccadilly line is not the only line the NTFL will operate on; it will also serve the Bakerloo, Central and Waterloo & City lines. Please add this information into the article. Edgar Searle (talk) 05:57, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
 * It is contained within the article -
 * "with options for a total of 250 trains allowing replacement of all existing trains on the deep-level Central, Waterloo & City and Bakerloo lines" in the header at the very top, and "In total, 250 trains could be ordered throughout the lifetime of the Deep Tube Upgrade Programme, comprising 100 trains for the Piccadilly line, 40 trains for the Bakerloo line, 100 trains for the Central line and 10 trains for the Waterloo & City line." in the contract award section. These options have not been confirmed. To state definitively otherwise would be WP:CRYSTAL Turini2 (talk) 11:07, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

The Tube Lines For The Future
The NTFL Will Be Introduced In 2025.

Bakerloo Line: The Extension Will Began With Full Height Doors On The Underground Stations and Half Height Doors On The Surface-Level Stations. The NTFL Will Run The Service Along With 1972, 1973 & 1992 Stocks.
 * Branch Option #1 (Hayes Via Peckham Rye).
 * Branch Option #2 (Beckenham Junction Via Camberewell).
 * Branch Option #3 (Hayes Via New Cross). 

Piccadilly Line: The Extension Will Began New Branch: Heathrow Terminal 5, Langley, Slough, Burnham, Taplow and Maidenhead. Refubrished Stations With Full Height Doors From Covent Garden-Knightsbridge The NTFL Will Replace The 1973 Stock. The 1973 Stock Will Move To Bakerloo Line Along With 1972 & 1992 Stocks.

Central Line: The Extension Will Began Stations With Full Height Doors (Monument, London Bridge, Borough, Elephant & Castle, Kennington, Brixton, Clapham Common, Battersea Park, Victoria And Hyde Park Corner) The NTFL Will Replace The 1992 Stock. The 1992 Stock Will Move To Bakerloo Line Along With 1972 & 1973 Stocks.

Waterloo & City Line: The Extension Will Began With Half Height Doors The NTFL Will Replace The 1992 Stock. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.204.142.79 (talk) 15:15, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Branch #1: Waterloo-Hammersmith
 * Branch #2: Bank-Kidbrooke
 * Branch #3: Waterloo-Streatham Hill
 * Branch #4: Bank, St.Paul's and Aldwych
 * You need to provide reliable sources, per the policy on verifiability. Otherwise, it is merely guesswork, with the possibility of crystal-ball gazing. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 15:21, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I think his idea is better 49.205.82.116 (talk) 12:47, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @49.205.82.116 FORUM "Please try to stay on the task of creating an encyclopedia ... article talk pages exist solely to discuss how to improve articles; they are not for general discussion about the subject of the article" Turini2 (talk) 14:25, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

The history of NTfL
The article has changed a lot over the years, reflecting the course of a complicated and political programme. NTfL hasn't always meant the train (and when it did, stood for New Train for London, part of the New Tube for London programme). It was first a new train, then more, then a whole programme of works including revised signalling, control, infrastructure and more for four lines. Then it was deemed silly that it would be called New Train or Next Gen Train, because one day that new train wouldn't be new again. The project was the Deep Tube Programme, and Deep Tube Upgrade Programme for a long while, then got renamed back to NTFL because it was obvious that funding would only be received if they bought a shiny train, cut a ribbon and justified it to do the rest of the enabling works for more automation. Evidence was in the press, in the OJEU articles and more. But all that has been lost in this page, it now, almost confusingly rotates around just the rolling stock to be provided by Siemens, with the odd contradiction that points out that it used to be a whole programme of works for the Tube (the underground) and not just a tube train. 202.171.171.211 (talk) 03:35, 15 May 2023 (UTC)


 * I think when the new rolling stock will be publicly named (as 24TS), this can be looked at. Turini2 (talk) 08:24, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

NTfL vs 2024TS
When the trains enter service, will this page be entirely moved to London Underground 2024 Stock or will it be something like NTfL is to 2024TS as Crossrail is to Elizabeth line EJD799 (talk) 12:41, 21 October 2023 (UTC)


 * It's been known as 2024 Stock for some time by the media, but TfL haven't officially confirmed it. When there's a public source that confirms what the name of the train is, the page will be moved. Turini2 (talk) 14:36, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * But will this page still exist or will it be a redirect? EJD799 (talk) 16:31, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * The page will likely be renamed (as happened to the 2009 Stock article, which was London Underground 2005 Stock before the 2009 was confirmed). Regardless, we just need to sit and wait until TfL/Siemens officially call the trains something other than "New trains" or "Siemens InspiroLondon" - the NTfL name has not been used by TfL for some time. Turini2 (talk) 20:04, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * (https://www.modernrailways.com/article/piccadilly-progress-2024-stock-reaches-wildenrath example of the media calling it 2024 Stock - we need to wait until TfL uses it) Turini2 (talk) 20:10, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * What do people think about this FOI as a source to rename the article to London Underground 2024 Stock? https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-1406-2324
 * "We can advise that the Rolling Stock Information Sheet in the format suggested is not yet available. At present, we can provide the attached profile and floor layout and point you in the direction of the Siemens website below which also contains some technical data about the 2024 Piccadilly line Train Stock" Turini2 (talk) 15:00, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * @Turini2: If TfL want to talk about train stock to be used next year on the Piccadilly line, then they are as likely as you or I to be talking about the 2024 Piccadilly line Train Stock. I don't think they're using the phrase as a name.
 * Patience is a virtue and, as ever, there is no WP:DEADLINE. Bazza (talk) 15:41, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Fair fair. The wait for "2024 Stock" being in a press release continues! Turini2 (talk) 19:03, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * @RickyCourtney 1) did you see the above? 2) Have you found an actual source of TfL using 2024 Stock? Turini2 (talk) 23:06, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I didn't see this discussion and just made the bold move. I haven't seen a primary TfL source using the name. However, there is a significant volume of secondary sources (more important on Wikipedia) that are already calling this the 2024 Stock. RickyCourtney (talk) 00:13, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
 * We don't perform moves until we are certain. Historically, London Underground policy has been to name rolling stock according to its planned year of entry to service. Until and unless TFL have announced the actual name for the stock (and not merely a suggestion that it will enter service in 2024), say by a press release, this should not have been moved. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 15:54, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
 * even if they choose to name the new Piccadilly line trains the 2024 stock. The NTfL (New Tube for London) refers to more than just one line. There for this page should have not been moved to a page that is only about one of the lines trains. Ape escape Remastered (talk) 16:33, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
 * @Ape escape Remastered Do not make these changes without seeking consensus. Central, Bakerloo and W&C line options have not been made, and furthermore they are options of the 2024TS regardless. We do not know if they will gain different classifications when eventually ordered (and it would be WP:CRYSTAL to presume so). (The NTfL nomenclature is not being used by TfL)   Turini2 (talk) 18:37, 29 February 2024 (UTC)