Talk:Long-distance motorcycle riding

Notability
I am not sure if this page would be considered notable enough or whether it should be a candidate for deletion. Could someone with a knowledge of this topic please provide further information - otherwise I will list it for deletion in a week or so. It may be an important mailing list or it may just be a vanity article. Thanks. Witty lama 01:46, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

The mailing list is certainly important to those who obtain information about Riding their motorcycles Long Distances by reading it. However there is a bit of a vanity issue here. Should this Wikipedia entry describe an Internet discussion forum about Long Distance Riding and the guy who started it, or should it describe the "sport" itself? Should an entry called "Mountain Climbing" describe an Internet chat group where people talk about climbing, or should it talk about the people out climbing mountains?


 * I would assume the sport should come first - meaning that this page should talk about "long distance riding" rather than the mailing list itself. However the mailing list would be a perfectly reasonable chapter within the larger page about the sport. However, the question still remains - is long distance riding a sport or is it just like if I were to make a page about the sport "walking down the street". :-) Witty lama 02:08, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

It's for real, although "sport" may not be quite the right word. There is a subculture within the motorcyle riding community whose participants take significant steps to increase the range of their motorcycles and that of their bodies so they can go, say, 1000 miles in a day without tremendous effort. For example, increasing fuel capacity on the vehicle to extend its range (fewer stops), having food and water available on the move (fewer stops), fine tuning the riding clothing selection to be able to handle heat, cold, wet, or dry (fewer stops), closely monitoring sleep and alertness (fewer stops) [see a pattern here? :-)] Thousands of riders around the world at least occasionally pile on a really long ride.  Some do it much more frequently.  The LDRider mailing list mentioned in this topic is probably the most notable method by which these riders share information, tell lessons learned, ask about future events, etc.


 * OK then, but this page definately needs to be wikified and expanded then. I'll see if I can do some linking to other related WP pages and put some categorisations up to start with. Witty lama 03:27, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

This link is definitely related: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Butt_Association Many (most?) of the riders who subscribe to the LDRider mailing list have earned IBA certificates.

Change of name?
I started copyediting this article, but have now concluded that 99% of the material is actually related to 'long distance riding', rather than the mailing list. I therefore propose that the page be renamed Long distance riding and the material is copyedit'd and wikified there, with a section for the long rider mailing list. Comments? Kcordina 13:55, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Long Distance Rider is part of a larger phenomenon brought about by its existence prior to the definition of social software.

Since the Long Distance Rider list exists as primarily a mail list it has its own cultural significance and impacts on a miniscule area of culture. As you might discuss the beginnings of the Internet and NNTP (News Groups) and specific groups like comp.os (sic) you could discuss Long Distance Rider. It is an entity rather than a thing. The entity Long Distance Rider (list) is a tiny proportion of the motorcycling population that has enormous impact on the direction and revenues of motorcycling (members are utilized in advertising, as testers, and as spokesman). The Long Distance Rider List is the primary communications organ. So, The Long Distance Rider List could also be considered a phenomenon.

I realized to late that bringing something like this to Wikipedia might be to esoteric for Wikipedians to understand. I say if Llama wants to pull it yank it.

ETA: In case you're wondering most of the Long Distance Rider social group don't play well with others either. They can ride 11,000 miles in 10 days on a motorcycle and party afterwards :) [User:Selil]


 * So, do you support changing the article name to Long distance riding as proposed, or not? Kcordina 15:40, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

I think the article is more Wikipedia-worthy when the topic is Long Distance Riding the activity, not Long Distance Rider the list. Just my .02, as more of an LDRider than a Wikipedian. Y'all do what you want. Jwhite518 00:10, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Another Long Distance Rider here. I support the name change on this article. Keep the info about the list, as it is certainly relevant. But I think it's much more likely that Wikipedia readers would first search for information about the activity itself. Once they find this article, they can read about many things, including the list.

Article Moved
Well, since the proposed move only got positive responses, I have gone ahead and done it. I've had a very quick swap around and stuck some fairly arbitrary titles in for sections. It now needs some proper to get it into a good form. Kcordina 09:41, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Proposed move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

Page moved to long distance motorcycle riding. Vegaswikian (talk) 01:45, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Long-distance riding → Long-distance motorcycling – Category:Long-distance riding has had some bicycling articles added, since it's unclear from the name what it's about. Best to state the obvious. Category rename also proposed. Dennis Bratland (talk) 04:16, 25 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Support - makes sense to me. --Biker Biker (talk) 07:30, 25 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Support – I would probably think first of horses with the present title. Occuli (talk) 12:39, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Oppose. It might be splitting hairs (see "motorcyclist education" versus "motorcycle education"), but long-distance riding is the commonly used term, according to my gut instinct. Perhaps "long-distance motorcycle riding"? I have a batch of other topics to work on, but I can research this if Dennis can't. tedder (talk) 22:03, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
 * quick research:
 * "long distance riding" -motorcycle: 179k web, 1800 books
 * "long distance riding" motorcycle: 144k web, 134 books
 * "long distance riding" -motorcycle -horse -bicycle: 98k web, 656 books
 * "long distance motorcycle riding": 171k web, 2 books
 * "long distance motorcycling": 133k, 12 books
 * "endurance motorcycle riding": 11k, 2 books
 * The web results lead me to think "long distance motorcycle riding" may be the best. Again, this is based on GHITS which is borderline bogus, but it's a start. I'm not sure what to make of the book results, we are in the long tail with any terms other than "long distance riding", even though GHITS disagrees. tedder (talk) 22:15, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I have no preference as long as it says motorcycle somewhere. "Motorcycle touring" has 631,000 web hits, 1,950 books, and 884 news. Also 163 hits at ProQuest. That might be the best umbrella term. Motorcycle touring currently redirects to Sport touring motorcycle for some reason. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 22:22, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm fine with the word "motorcycle" being in there, the problem with "motorcycle touring" is that it refers to something different than "long-distance riding". The former is satin jackets and a trailer behind the goldwing, the latter is Iron Butt style. They could be covered in the same article, but the former usage is why there are many more hits for it, I think. tedder (talk) 22:38, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm also OK with "long distance motorcycle riding" --Biker Biker (talk) 06:51, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Super. Should Category:Long-distance riding/motorcycling also conform and be called Category:Long-distance motorcycle riding.?
 * Yeah, it should match. tedder (talk) 16:07, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
 * So do we have to seek consensus again from the editors who supported the previous name changes? Or start new discussions? --Dennis Bratland (talk) 16:34, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Once this article's movereq is over, I'd just be bold and move the cat unless there are strong objections to it. tedder (talk) 16:36, 26 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Support: Less colloquial term. –CWenger ( ^ •  @ ) 18:21, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Petition for Name Change/Merge
Long distance motorcycle riding has a name and its called “Motorcycle touring“”, I suggest changing the name. Lets say its the counterpart of Bicycle touring

Long distance motorcycle riding → Motorcycle touring
Google hits for: — Moebiusuibeom-en (talk) 19:05, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Long distance motorcycle riding: About 1,670,000 results (0.12 seconds)
 * Motorcycle touring: About 14,300,000 results (0.10 seconds)'''


 * Please discuss at Talk:Motorcycle touring. By default, merge discussions are normally at the target page. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 20:52, 15 May 2011 (UTC)