Talk:M Countdown

Article length
This article is excessively long and contains a ridiculous number of lists/tables that could easily be combined into standalone articles thus reducing the length of this one. I haven't checked to see which editors maintain this page regularly but whoever you are please start separating the content. I already removed the 2019+2020 winners tables because someone created individual articles for them, which I linked in place of. And information needs to be sourced as well. There are only 5 or 6 references for this entire page! -- Carlobunnie (talk) 01:44, 5 November 2020 (UTC)


 * I do my best to maintain this article and currently am working on the 2018 chart in my sandbox. EN-Jungwon (talk) 07:40, 5 November 2020 (UTC)


 * yes I checked the edit history and saw your name, but there are other editors who've also contributed to the page. I was hoping my msg would get them involved with the cleanup too. Might have to tag them to get their attention if no one else responds aside from you. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 17:47, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

English Wikipedia and Korean Wikipedia lists do not match
The rankings on this page and it's Korean page does not match each other. 엠카운트다운 EN-Jungwon (talk) 14:12, 5 November 2020 (UTC)


 * what specifically doesn't match? Because the english pages aren't created based on the korean pages. There are often differences between many articles on kor wiki and eng WP. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 02:39, 6 November 2020 (UTC)


 * The list of winners don't match. Even though there are differences in both wiki, the list of winners should be same. And this articles list sometimes doesn't match the songs article which includes music show wins. So basically this article is unreliable at this point. EN-Jungwon (talk) 03:34, 6 November 2020 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't call the article unreliable. The sources match the wins listed. Not every song article contains accurate information as some are better maintained than others (some have all wins listed, some only list some, some don't even have that info in them). How are you gauging that the korean article is more reliable? Does it use better sources, or is it because it's korean that you think it must be more reliable? Or does this list have missing entries? Missing entries don't mean the article is unreliable either. It just means it's incomplete. It's the job of the editor to fill in what's missing and make it as good as it can possibly be. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 03:52, 6 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Not only does it not match other articles but there aren't even sources for some wins on Naver or Google. Soompi (even though they are considered an unreliable source) always releases articles about the winners of music shows everyday. Moreover, Mnet's YouTube channel also uploads video of the chart every week but some of the wins on this article is not on their channel. EN-Jungwon (talk) 04:10, 6 November 2020 (UTC)


 * so is it that the dates for those particular entries are wrong then? As in, did the artist actually win but on another date or with a different song? Or did they not have any wins at all and the entries are completely fabricated? Because we can simply correct the dates or change the song name if it's not the latter. But if the wins are fake then we can just remove those particular entries from the table. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 04:29, 6 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Some entries are fake. Mostly the ones without an episode number because Mnet usually don't announce winners if there is no episode. EN-Jungwon (talk) 04:38, 6 November 2020 (UTC)


 * -- Carlobunnie (talk) 04:54, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
 * please ignore my above comment. I forgot that you were talking about the main Mcountdown article. My brain was so focused on the 2019 list that I thought for a moment that's what you were referring to all this time 🤦🏽‍♀️. When I said "The sources match the wins listed" higher up in the convo I was thinking of the 2019 list. I'm so sorry for mixing them up, think it's a sign that I need to sleep soon. Having reread everything you said (now that I realize where I started to misunderstand), and considering that the article is almost wholly unsourced and has been that way for years as I mentioned on its talk page before, I'm guessing that maybe whoever's watching the page just assumed accurate info was being added all the time? And if older editors left over time, the newer ones wouldn't be aware of issues with the older data. All we can do now is fix it as best as we can. Since you're more knowledgeable on this show than I am (I hardly ever watch it) you'd be able to pick up on mistakes faster than me. I'll try to help with sourcing and whatnot. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 05:28, 6 November 2020 (UTC)


 * You sound like me. I should also get some sleep. Anyways I was about to reply to you with an example so here it is: For example, the 2017 list December 7th winner is Red Velvet's "Peek-a-Boo". But on the Korean wiki December 7 says "MAMA in Hong Kong rerun" and there is no winner listed and on the songs article also there is no mention of that win. If you do a YouTube search for the video clip of the winner announcement there is none. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=m+countdown+top+in+1st+week+of+december+2017 There is also a statement from mnet saying that an episode will not air on December 7 . EN-Jungwon (talk) 05:33, 6 November 2020 (UTC)


 * ah yeah, it's 1:51am here 💀. Thanks for the example. I would never have picked up on that. Honestly, once you detect an issue somewhere, and you find solid proof that it's incorrect, just make the change but be sure your edit summary clearly specifies why the particular entry was edited/removed. That way anyone who might wanna contest/restore the wrong info won't have a leg to stand on. Also, how many of the years do you have going on in your sandbox? Because I was thinking we should separate each year into standalone articles first and then work on them one by one. That way we cut down the main article bulk from the get go. It's serious hell scrolling that list of winners section every time. Oh and um I made a slight adj to the links in your last comment so they won't appear as refs at the bottom of my talk page all the time. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 05:52, 6 November 2020 (UTC)


 * I will reply to that after 8 hours cause you need to sleep. EN-Jungwon (talk) 05:56, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I made separate articles for the 2017 and 2018 charts. EN-Jungwon (talk) 15:06, 6 November 2020 (UTC)


 * and I just created drafts for the 2004–2016 lists. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 21:43, 6 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Check User talk:175.145.105.17. I got a list of users who have been adding incorrect information to this articl. EN-Jungwon (talk) 15:45, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

do you think it's time the older sections prior to 2008 were removed from the article? I remember in some of our past discussions you mentioned that it's very difficult to locate supporting sources for 2004–2007, and the drafts for those years haven't been touched in a while either. I've been contemplating deleting them because it doesn't make sense keeping them if they can't be sourced. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 23:16, 16 March 2021 (UTC)


 * @Carlobunnie, I have no objections. We would also have to remove some entries from the section Triple Crown and there might be some changes that need to be made to Achievements by artists section too.  EN  - Jungwon  17:35, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
 * ok. I'll go ahead and tag the drafts for deletion first. Regarding the Triple Crown section, I think it would be good to note here which ones will be removed for posterity. In my experience, ppl will faster search the archives of a talk for something than dig thru the edit history for comments in an edit summary (tho there are editors who do both). We should also include a permanent note in the winners section explaining why 2004–2007 was removed to help mitigate any edit warring (tho it might still happen regardless) over the issue when ppl see that the info is gone. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 18:25, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I just deleted 2004–2007 from the winners section. Working on a brief note to insert in place. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 22:45, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

M Countdown chart section

 * Global fan votes via Mwave, Mnet Japan, Genie, and Whosfan (15%) - can anyone verify whether this is still accurate or not, because Mnet's website doesn't mention anything about voting on Genie in its breakdown
 * Data is collected from Monday to Sunday (10 days prior to 4 days prior) - can someone clarify the "10 days to 4 days" part?   I'm trying to refine the wording+add sources where possible, but I can't do that properly when I don't understand what the present wording means. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 02:55, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

Info on SuJu members as initial hosts
Leeteuk, Shindong, Kangin and Eunhyuk are the earliest hosts of MC that I could find.
 * Osen and Star News articles on Naver say they began hosting in November 2005 (Osen) and stepped down as hosts in 2008, with their final broadcast being on March 27 (Osen+Star News).
 * Osen names Leeteuk, Shindong, & Kangin as hosts, while Star News names Leeteuk, Shindong & Eunhyuk.

Some of the earliest articles on Naver naming any of the 4 as hosts at the time:
 * LT, SD, KI – Aug'07
 * SD, LT, EH – Aug'07
 * LT – Nov'07 (in the image caption at the end of the article)
 * LT, EH – Jan'08, LT, SD, EH – Jan'08   -- Carlobunnie (talk) 00:40, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:23, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Nam yoon soo.jpg

Percentage breakdown for 1st system
Is there a particular reason we have nothing stated for the 1st system, unlike for 2011 come forward? I found this 2010 article on Naver which mentions the breakdown at the time, but I'm sure there are older ones as well. Ik Mnet revamped their system a few times so idk if that has anything to do with why? -- Carlobunnie (talk) 23:30, 25 September 2021 (UTC)