Talk:Matter of France

Chanson d'Antioche
Could someone take a quick look at Chanson d'Antioche and determine if I have appropriately categorized it as Matter of France? John (Jwy) 21:24, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

The Matter of France is generally about Charlemagne and his associates, so I took it out. Thanks for pointing it out.--Cuchullain 22:14, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

I was just going to ask about this myself. Where does the Crusade Cycle fit in? Aside from Antioche there is also the "Chanson de Jerusalem" and the "Chanson des chétifs", and maybe some more, I'm not sure. I guess it's just called "the Crusade Cycle", and we could make a separate article about it. Adam Bishop 02:08, 18 January 2006 (UTC)


 * There is a category for Crusade literature, but it has no article (and some of the entries are for chronicles and such rather than just poem cycle). I think the "Crusade Cycle" would make a good article.--Cuchullain 02:53, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I can't interpret the meaning of this phrase in the article: "...although Poul Anderson's Three Hearts and Three Lions takes place in a fantasy world where it was historical fact."  Help.JGC1010 (talk) 01:57, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Basics
This article contains no inline citations and has characteristics of personal essay and original research. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.19.197.84 (talk) 00:32, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

How should "Matter" (and matière) be read/translated?
The great quote in the opening section had me thinking -- it translates "matieres" as "literary cycles"; it literally translates to "matter" (which is, I believe, why we call these cycles "matters". That said, how would someone reading the quote about the "three great cycles" have understood the word matiere, at the time?  (I was tempted to alter the translation to simply say "matter" as opposed to "literary cycle"...hence the question).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.235.56.24 (talk) 07:55, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

--I know this has been much discussed, and in scholarly circles there has never been a consensus, thought "matter" and "material" both work tolerably well. I would not, however, translate here "literary cycles" for "matière" - better there to say "works" as in "oevres"(Peaky beaky (talk) 12:55, 29 September 2012 (UTC))


 * "La matière" originally rather meant "material collected for nation building", i.e. written sources and oral narratives appropriate to be idealized, dramatized and re-arranged for purposes of French nation building. However, what we know as "La matière" or "Matter of France" today is an editted and forged version of what had been collected for these purposes in earlier times. 188.99.27.209 (talk) 10:34, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

What does this mean?
Apparently I'm not the first editor who could not interpret the meaning of this line:

"...Poul Anderson's Three Hearts and Three Lions takes place in a fantasy world where it was historical fact."

I will have to edit this out until some other editor is able to clarify the meaning. The question was raised earlier on this page, about five years ago, and still has not been addressed.zadignose (talk) 03:12, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Quote
Given that the cycles are summarized under Description, is the (over 50 lines) long quoted from Girart de Vienne necessary? Mannanan51 (talk) 21:52, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

French Nation Building Project
Obviously, framing of content of "la matière" is to do nation building, which is to build up a new French nation myth, benefitting from, as well as idealizing, existing traditions. Activities for this project first emerged end of 12th/ beginning of 13th century (and finally, centuries later, lead to founding of "Académie Francaise" in the year 1600). Historical "editorial decisions" regarding "la matière" should therefore be seen under this pre-assumption and must be linked to the related time lines on early French nationalism. 188.99.27.209 (talk) 10:28, 5 October 2021 (UTC)