Talk:Mecha/Archive 1

Terminology
The word "mecha" as being used primarily to refer to giant robots is a particularly flawed concept. The term also applies to fighter jets and vehichles that may not neccessarily have limbs and/or humandoid structure. Take, for example, the Ikaruga...


 * This article already addresses the more generic use of "meka" in Japanese, citing it as the origin of the word. However, the word "mecha" (and derivative words like "mech" that redirect here) are proper terms in much of the world for robot-like vehicles.  Like blouse, the word's meaning has changed to become more specific.  Blouse, just to be clear, originally meant a loose-fitting top or the puffing out of a garment.  It only became genderized in the last hundred years or so.  --Dunkelza 04:25, 16 January 2007 (UTC)


 * But even then, 'mecha' still does not necessarily mean "limbed vehichles." The word was never 'repurposed' as I still see most English speakers still refer to non-limbed craft by this word. They article keeps mentioning "mecha" as it is used in the American sense, therefore making it POV.


 * I haven't run into a single English speaker using the word "mecha" or "mech" to refer to a vehicle without legs. Citation?  Also, please sign your discussion entries.  Thanks. --Dunkelza 02:53, 17 January 2007 (UTC)


 * For that matter, I don't think I've run into a single English speaker who has used "mecha" to refer to Western style piloted combat walkers. Granted, it may be technically true, but the connotative difference is undeniable.  The rapture and the apocalypse consist of the same elements, but you'd never confuse the two.  I don't think that the BF2142 walker belongs up here. Michael.A.Anthony (talk) 20:45, 19 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Several English publications have made use of the term "mecha" properly. EX.org was one (note how they mention "non-robots" for Yamane Kimitoshi's "mecha" work). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 161.38.223.219 (talk) 23:29, 18 January 2007 (UTC).


 * Also, while most uses of the word have been refering to limbed vehichles, they may not necessarily be giant. In fact, power armor may be considered mecha, but the term "mecha" has only been recently narrowed down by Amricans to refer to only giant robots. Elsewhere, mecha still refers to any mechanical craft, robot or non-robot. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.127.71.84 (talk) 18:34, 30 January 2007 (UTC).


 * Many Shmupsrefer to non-limbed craft as mecha, even in thier English translations. (Example: DoDonPachi's Hibachi)

"English speakers"?

Christ, you animu jerks are hopeless. Either make a separate article for piloted mechanical walkers in general (like this article is trying to do - but replace every instance of "mecha" with walker) and have this one only describe the anime-related term, or rename this one and tone down the Japanophile factor. We're explaining a concept that occurs in texts and popular culture from all over the world: applying the term "mecha" to the work of H. G. Wells, for example, isn't really appropriate. UndeadSocrates (talk) 03:44, 10 September 2008 (UTC) I wasn't aware that I was being uncivil - at least, not in the way Wikipedia uses the word ("personally-targeted, belligerent behavior and persistent rudeness that results in an atmosphere of conflict and stress"). Belligerent, maybe, but with a point. This article, which should be a general explanation, is woefully slanted towards the term that is used as its title: a Japanese contraction that's been appropriated by Westerners to describe Japanese examples of a non-Japanese-specific concept - which is reasonable enough in itself, but this article suggests that "mecha" is the generally-accepted term for describing all examples of this concept. This is not the case; the only term that fits the bill is "piloted mechanical walker" (long-winded as it is) and suggesting otherwise is misleading. UndeadSocrates (talk) 08:09, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Two words, be civil. L-Zwei (talk) 06:16, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Call other "animu jerks" and "Japanophile" is rude. L-Zwei (talk) 10:22, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

East vs. West Mecha Section; Not as useful as it was
Just wondering; before the cull of this article that happened a while ago, this section was actually pretty informative. Now it's a bit redundant. I suggest bringing back the original information in that section! --Wunderbear 14:13, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I have taken the liberty of reverting and changing a few things because what was posted before was off topic.129.2.206.65 00:57, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Mecha as Practical War Machines
The section entitled Mecha As Practical War Machines was removed from this article because it took up the majority of the article and had little relation to the rest of the article (which is primarily concerned with the appearance of mecha in fiction). This was spun off into its own page, so that the information would be preserved and could be further discussed. Almost immediately the article was nominated for deletion, due to it being full of unverifiable conjecture and fancruft. The article was deleted for these reasons, may we never see it again. Jboyler 03:36, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

American Mecha 1939
I'd like to suggest a possible first instance of the Mecha concept in fiction. The 1939 comic book feature Hugh Hazard and his Robot, Bozo the Iron Man (long title, eh?) was published in Smash Comics by the publisher Quality Comics. In the first story, hero Hugh Hazard fights the evil robot, and crawls inside the robot to take a ride to the scientist's secret lair; at the end of the story he takes possession of the robot. In later stories, Hazard controls the robot by radio, and then eventually has adventures as athe operator inside in the robot; the robot seems human sized in these later stories, as if it were a suit of armor.

The concept of Hugh Hazard and the robot is not very detailed or well fleshed-out in these old comics, but it looks a lot like mecha to me.--67.149.27.186 00:23, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Category:Mecha
Just created this, so if you've got articles floating around which may suit it, please add them. Sockatume 13:34, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I think it's worth noting that many of the mecha from SDF Macross had permanent weapon emplacements in place of arms (e.g. the Destroids Phalanx, Tomahawk (Warhammer in Battletech), Monster, Defender (Rifleman in Battletech)), and this is what may have inspired this design decision in other FASA mecha. Are there examples of non-FASA mecha that exhibit the weapons-for-arms design decision? Popefelix 12:48, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

reply- Some of the Gundams, like Guntank, had weapon arms. Front Mission games give the option of gun arms, so does the Armored Core series. There's also various Maschinen Krieger, though it's mostly power armor and few mecha.


 * Front Mission and Armored Core weren't released until the mid-90s, while Battletech was released in 1984. If you want examples of weapons-for-arms mecha, go for it, but they cannot possibly have been inspiration for Battletech.

Real-life efforts
I think Mechaps.com and plustech.fi should be mentioned in there somehow. MPS is building a bipedal mecha, and Plustech has already built several hexapedal foresting mecha. 69.170.38.24 11:57, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

If the article is to site real-life examples, then there should be a mention of the granddaddy of real-world mecha, the General Motors Hardyman.

NeoGentronyx
Why was neogentronyx removed from real-life exemples ?

The neogentronyx thing is little more than a weight-shifting sculpture. It did NOT walk at all. Ryan Salisbury 23:09, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

I removed it again because after 3 month of my original removal someone added it back in. I removed it both times due to Ryan's comment above me

Pilots required?
Are pilots a requirement for mecha? I figured mecha to mean any big robot, even including power armor. But back to pilots, is that really a requirement? We call Gundam Mecha, but not all Gundam/mobile suits have pilots. In Gundam Wing there was a series of AI controlled mobile suits, would they no longer be mecha? I figure that's not right.
 * Pilots are required for mecha. If it's unmanned, it's just a robot.  Powered armor are typically not included in the category of mecha.  It's a really contrived definition, which is why I'm always trying to get people to call them "walking vehicles" or "legged vehicles" so the word has an easily determined definition.  Ryan Salisbury 23:11, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
 * The Gundam Wing 'Mobile Dolls' were originally piloted mecha, which were later adapted to fuction with a controlling artificial intelligence instead of a flesh-and-blood pilot. The Taurus mobile dolls were still pilotable, and the Mobile Doll system was developed from studying how humans piloted the suits. -- Saberwyn 10:47, 18 April 2006 (UTC)