Talk:Medieval ships

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 January 2020 and 6 May 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Sara43klein.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 00:49, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Untitled
I would appreciate it if any future editors to this page could do the following tasks:
 * 1) Add types of ships
 * 2) Expand the information about the ship types
 * 3) Add an introduction
 * 4) Add citations for the information here (taken from the main articles about the ships)
 * 5) Add information about medieval ships from other parts of the world (right now I only have information about European ships)  (on second thought, the Middle Ages only really apply to Europe--Tabun1015 18:26, 25 February 2007 (UTC))
 * 6) Rearrange the pictures of the different ships so that they fit more neatly with their subheadings--Tabun1015 18:03, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Also, make sure to add ships into the proper time period. The main reason why I started this page was because I found it very difficult to find out what ship types were used when.--Tabun1015 19:28, 25 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Added a brief intro paraphrased loosely from a reputable published source. Added reference to Cogs, Caravels and Galleons. Existing intro appeared to be written off the top of someone's head. Perhaps even intentional vandalism. Piano non troppo (talk) 11:41, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 27 August 2018 and 12 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Howardbm97. Peer reviewers: Wescoast11.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 03:48, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Knarr, not knaar
I strongly suggest spelling "knarr" instead of "knaar". I'm a native Icelander and have read extensively about the Viking era ships. The three spellings "knörr", "knarr" and "knorr" are all valid, but I have never encountered "knaar" outside of Wikipedia. I just added a similar comment on the Wikipedia "Knaar" discussion page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 130.208.66.52 (talk) 11:24, 2 May 2007 (UTC).
 * I changed it back to knaar, for consistency's sake. If the main article is changed to the spelling you suggest, then it should of course be changed back, but for the time being, let's use the same spelling as the main article.  Have you tried moving "knaar" to the new spelling?-- T a b u n 1 0 1 5  16:52, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree, and will proceed with the move if there are no objections. --Grimhelm 18:37, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Oops, that article name is used, so you will need to ask an administrator to move it for you. --Grimhelm 19:28, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Ipswich, Suffolk, England coat of arms
I understand it shows the first representation of a ship with a rudder rather than a steering-oar. The coat of arms is still used today. 89.241.101.20 (talk) 21:30, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Proposed restructure and expansion
I hope to carry out a bit of work here on oared warship types. I feel that a division - the traditional longship/roundship or oar/sail - would be helpful. I will retain the timescheme, as it was fundamental to the original editors concept. For those ships crossing a time period, they will be placed in the broad era in which they originated. Initial ship types to be added will be the northern galley, the ballinger and the birlinn Monstrelet (talk) 11:01, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Knock yourself out, but please use inline citations. The article really needs them. AmateurEditor (talk) 16:01, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Don't worry, I'm planning to put some in. I shifted the Cog link as a preparatory (thanks for tidying that up, BTW).  Now that can be accessed, I see that the article text is a copyvio (it's a cut and paste from the linked site).  I'll leave it in place and see if I can rewrite it (with proper ref) when I have time, unless you want to do it?Monstrelet (talk) 16:09, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
 * By all means, please do it. I'm just glad someone is interested in this article. I know virtually nothing on the topic, unfortunately, and I am focused elsewhere on Wikipedia at the moment. AmateurEditor (talk) 16:17, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I have replaced the copyvio text for Cog, as discussed. It's basic but referenced.  That will have to do until I have a little time.  I'll also try and fit in a line or two about the enigmatic hulc. Monstrelet (talk) 15:30, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Proposed expansion
I've noticed that no large additions have been made to this article in some time and am planning to expand the entries on sailing ships. I also hope to include more in-line citations where needed. I don't plan on radically changing the structure, just adding on to what is here. Here are some of the sources that I have

Flatman, Joe. Ships & Shipping in Medieval Manuscripts. London: The British Library, 2009.

McGrail, Sean. Boats of the World from the stone Age to Medieval Times. New York: Oxford University Press, 2001. https://ebookcentral-proquest-com.ezproxy.beloit.edu/lib/beloit-ebooks/reader.action?docID=1223136&query=.

Rudolph, Wolfgang. Boats-Rafts-Ships. Leipzig, Germany: Can Nostrand Reinhold Company, 1974.

I will add to this list as time goes on.Howardbm97 (talk) 23:18, 26 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Very good, I look forward to it. AmateurEditor (talk) 05:36, 28 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Yes, good luck with it. Before you start, though, remember that this is a overarching topic article.  Quite a number of the ship types have their own main articles and we should not be seeking to duplicate the depth of those individual articles.  That said, more content in several sections would be welcome.Monstrelet (talk) 09:50, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

globalize template
I have removed the globalize template from the article. The article title is "Medieval ships". Medieval is well summed up in its Wikipedia article as being a period in, specifically, European history. For instance:

"The Middle Ages is the middle period of the three traditional divisions of Western history: classical antiquity, the medieval period, and the modern period."

It would be nonsensical to try and insert the story of maritime technology from other parts of the world into this European historical period – not least because Europe's maritime technological history is deeply intertwined with the political, economic and technological aspects of its broader history.

Nor would a globalized article do justice to other parts of the world. All the reader would get, within the size limits of a Wikipedia article, would be a confusing mess. A clue to this is the size of academic works that deal with a the history of ships on a global scale, for instance: McGrail's Boats of the World from the Stone Age to Medieval Times is 480 pages of large format book, and is quite concise on each region/subject within that region. The solution to the perceived problem is to have articles on the history of maritime technology for other regions, with links thereto from this article. ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 21:24, 29 October 2022 (UTC)