Talk:Mehmet Ali Talat

Untitled
Mehmet ali talat isnt married with two children, but is married, and has two children.

Please correct the information.


 * In English, those two sentences mean exactly the same thing. Adam Bishop 17:13, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Not quite. former has implication the children are of the marriage.217.43.173.159 (talk) 14:00, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Opening sentence is heavy with POV. 139.78.233.194 18:23, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

3rd Pres?
Picture caption says 3rd President, yet all related articles refer only to Talat and Denktash. 2nd or 3rd?217.43.173.159 (talk) 14:00, 16 December 2007 (UTC)


 * He is the second president of the TRNC, but we consider him as 3rd national leader for Turkish Cypriots following Dr. Fazıl Küçük and Rauf Raif Denktaş.Wikiturk (talk) 19:11, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Nationality Cypriot??
Citizens of TRNC are known as Turkish Cypriots by nationality. Hence it should be changed as Turkish Cypriot. You can put it in quotation marks but that's how it should be.Wikiturk (talk) 19:11, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

RfC: Refimprove tag
Is the refimprove tag for this article appropriate? Turkish sources on his biography are reliable ones, not just forums. This is not a controversial issue, and Turks can write reliable sources on their own republic. Seksen (talk) 20:43, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
 * You cannot just use local references for a government that is only recognised by the Republic of Turkey.  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 20:47, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
 * It does not matter whether it is recognized or not, but it is a sovereign state. If they publish wrong information on the president's biography, they need to publish a correction later. And I were you, I would not do this, since this gives me the right to remove material sourced with Armenan sources in Armenian genocide and with Greek sources in Greek genocide. And unless we reach a consensus here, the pages should be at their stable version. --Seksen (talk) 09:19, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
 * It would be better if you used your time adding independent third-party references instead of edit-warring a Refimprove tag. Add independent third-party sources that meet WP:RS and then remove the tag. Not before.  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 10:17, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
 * It seems like you are more in an edit war than me. Articles are kept in their stable versions unless a consensus is reached, just like not deleting an article during an AfD. And if there is no consensus, it is still kept at the stable version. So please stop adding the refimprove tags. --Seksen (talk) 11:55, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually local sources are more reliable than foreign sources on this biography, since, as I have said, they would have to apologise if they published wrong information. --Seksen (talk) 11:56, 1 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Question: I'd like to identify your problem guys... aren't there any non-Turkish sources? Why wouldn't you include both? --  Ashot  ( talk ) 13:16, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Appreciate your input Ashot. In a situation where an occupied territory calls itself a country there should also be independent, third-party WP:RS sources. Just because the Republic of Turkey says that there is a country called the "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus" and that it has a "President" (when no other country recognises either) it is unreasonable to just add sources that are clearly the propaganda of an occupation regime. Wikipedia is supposed to be an encyclopaedia and not a work of fiction engendered from propaganda. Unfortunately, Seksen is away for a few days and won't be able to rejoin the discussion before he returns.  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 14:01, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I think that local sources can be used for non-disputable areas (birthday, number of children may just be simple examples), whereas the disputable ones should either have neutral back-ups or simply be removed. --  Ashot  ( talk ) 14:28, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree with you.  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 00:01, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Ok, and what are the disputable points in biography of Mehmet Ali Talat? Are there any? --  Ashot  ( talk ) 17:32, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The two main issues are the use of "President" and "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus" (since these titles are pure Turkish propaganda). Independent sources from outside the scope of influence of the Republic of Turkey that meet WP:RS should be used i.e. local sources are not sufficient. What I do not understand is how Wikipedia allows the use of these words when these are not mainstream. For example, in formal situations the rest of the world refers to the Turkish-Cypriot leader (not the "President"). So why does Wikipedia allow the use of "President" without independent sources that meet WP:RS? All articles that refer to the "President" should really be saying Turkish-Cypriot leader.  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 18:04, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Isn't it correct to move that kind of discussion to the relevant pages (such as President of Northern Cyprus or Northern Cyprus)? Is there any controversial point within the biography itself? --  Ashot  ( talk ) 18:49, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * It doesn't make any difference where the discussion is held. The discussion will always be overpowered by Turkish editors and they always get their way. The fact remains that all of the mentions of "Presidents" are only backed up by Turkish references and none are backed by independent third-party references from reliable sources that are independent and outside the sphere of influence of the Republic of Turkey.  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 00:00, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Turkish Northern Cyprus is a de-facto reality on historical Greek lands (as far as I know). Wikipedia reflects both de-facto and de-jure realities in the articles, so I don't see any problem with using the term "president". If other sources call him in some other form, you can simply mention that as well.--  Ashot  ( talk ) 05:19, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The problem is that the de-jure realities are not reflected. Neither "Turkish occupied Cyprus" nor "Turkish Cypriot leader" are mentioned. And if I try to shoe-horn them in anywhere there will be an almighty uproar.  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 09:03, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

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