Talk:Melania Trump/Archive 2

Birther accusations
Can someone compile a list of Melania Trumps comments about President Obama not being born in the USA. A useful reference point - a number of interviews over the last 5 years, where she made this point. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.175.31.143 (talk) 18:54, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Since Reliable Sources do not seem to be reporting this, such a search would be synthesis / original research. So no, I don't think we should be looking into this. --MelanieN (talk) 22:38, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

Melania Trump spoke on the Joy Behar Show in April 2011, around the time of the Bin Laden raid on Abbotabad. Can people find additional clips or cuttings on her comments, following up on her husband. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.173.229.69 (talk) 19:07, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Melania's H-1b claim
In the Wikipedia article, Melania Trump claims she came to the United States in 1996 on a sponsored H-1b visa. Yet the article also quotes her as saying she had to go back to Europe every few months to get her passport stamped until she got her Green Card in 2001. This is a contradiction in terms. An H-1b visa is good for 3 years (and can be renewed once under certain conditions) as long as you continue to work for the sponsoring company. There is no need to have any document re-stamped in those 3 years.If you work for anybody but your sponsor, you must be sent back to the foreign country you entered the U.S. from. The sponsorship can be transferred to another company, in which case, she would have had to work for the new company that guaranteed her sponsorship. If she was here on a non-working tourist visa, then she WOULD have had to return to Europe for new stamps at regular intervals. So, what she said is a contradiction in terms and raises the real possibility, if not probability, that she was, in fact, working in the United States illegally not just in 1995, but through 2001 when she got her Green Card. [US Department of Labor, Wage and Hour Division, H-1b law] --BlueSun03 (talk) 18:35, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

Immigration claims in BLP
Trump has given an explanation for her immigration history through her lawyer. This explanation has been mostly accepted in the LAT and Vox analyses cited. There are some lingering issues and possibilities, but in the absence of solid evidence - and *especially* in a BLP - these should not be included in this article. (Especially as you have to believe the her lawyer was willing to risk disbarment to lie for the Trumps.) Don't readd this material without consensus on this talk page. NPalgan2 (talk) 03:29, 1 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I agree with you, and hope that you will carry over your opposition to highlighting unsubstantiated allegations to Alicia Machado where you have advocated the opposite of your position here. Consistency, please. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  06:13, 1 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I have a more expansive view of what should be in a BLP than you. I didn't seek to remove the immigration material when RSs were discussing it with what seemed good evidence, but (see the politico correction) those concerns are now debunked. The only possibility left is that she had a secret first marriage (raised by Vox) but they say "But there’s even less evidence that Melania got married before getting her green card than there is that she came to the US in 1995." If RSs start discussing that possibility, it should be added. OTOH, AM's involvement in the 1998 trial is being discussed by RSs. NPalgan2 (talk) 15:07, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

"entered to the United States"
I'd have liked to change the incorrect English "entered to the United States" to "entered the United States", but for some reason the article can't be edited. I hope someone with the necessary authority can make the change.178.197.239.134 (talk) 22:31, 8 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Yes check.svg Done—nice catch. Rebb  ing  23:30, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 October 2016
Hello community, there is a punctuation detail that should be resolved. All of the images' captions should end with a "." -- Best. Lnmb (talk) 14:19, 19 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Thank you for your inquiry,, but our style guide (see MOS:CAPTION and MOS:CAPFRAG) specifies that a caption that consists solely of a sentence fragment should not be terminated with a full stop. Rebb  ing  15:54, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

Employed without authorization
Melania Trump made $20G in U.S. modeling gigs without legal authorization to work in country, documents reveal - NY Daily News

I'm not sure if this is official, but is it worth to add Melania's work without authorization in the United States at "Immigration to United States" paragraph? --134.53.237.185 (talk) 00:15, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

Not yet incumbent FLOTUS
The info box has been edited to say that Melania is the incumbent FLOTUS and has already taken office. Since the best term for her current status may be FLOTUS Elect (is there a proper term for this?) but not the current FLOTUS, her infobox needs changing, but the wikicode for the box confuses me, since it's not obvious what the bits do in terms of generating the text. Can someone fix it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Metheglyn (talk • contribs) 08:35, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 November 2016
92.37.55.60 (talk) 13:03, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

Please change in "Early life" that she is born in Sevnica and not in Novo mesto. This is a huge mistake. Please change it. Thank you!


 * This was discussed in the past (see the archives or the edit history). There is no maternity hospital in Sevnica, and reliable Slovenian media have reported that she was born in Novo Mesto. --Eleassar my talk 13:45, 9 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Final proof: Newspaper report of her birth. --Eleassar my talk 21:59, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20151117031329/http://www.gettyimages.in/detail/news-photo/melania-knauss-melania-knauss-by-george-holz-melania-knauss-news-photo/77706760/gallery to http://www.gettyimages.in/detail/news-photo/melania-knauss-melania-knauss-by-george-holz-melania-knauss-news-photo/77706760/gallery
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.today.com/news/melania-trump-convention-speech-i-wrote-it-little-help-possible-t100942
 * Corrected formatting/usage for https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/melania-trump-files-defamation-lawsuit-against-blogger-and-british-tabloid/2016/09/02/13baae70-713c-11e6-8365-b19e428a975e_story.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/melania-trump-files-defamation-suit-against-daily-mail-political-blog-n641771
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/01/fashion/melania-trump-the-silent-partner.html?_r=0

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wrong date but i don't know the right date
sentence reads:

"When asked by The New York Times in 1999 what her role would be if Donald Trump were to become president, Trump replied: "I would be very traditional. Like Betty Ford or Jackie Kennedy."[6]"

1999 is 5 years before they married. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.173.240.100 (talk) 01:48, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
 * The date is correct. In 1999, Donald was thinking about running for president in the 2000 election, and he said he would marry Melania to make her First Lady. That's when she made the comment, although they ultimately did not marry until 2005. AJFU  02:21, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

Tone
No offence, but the tone of this article is just this side of fan-boy worshipful. I am planning to tone it down to encyclopedic. Any comments prior? 100.33.33.130 (talk) 09:53, 10 November 2016 (UTC) HullIntegrity \ talk / 09:55, 10 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Make sure that as you tone it down you don't tone it negative and there won't be a problem. --2601:243:1002:76AB:913C:3AC0:FE19:1D3B (talk) 16:48, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 November 2016
I ask that the image of First Lady Designate, Melania Trump be changed to a more Patriotic photo that tells the beauty and power of the First Lady. You can get it on Wikimedia Commons, Here's the link: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:First_Lady_Melania_Trump.jpg. To whoever successfully edits, Thank You so much. Or can we have at least a prettier picture than what we have now? White House photos wont be released until way after the inauguration. Can we please have something for the world.

Littleromeo10102 (talk) 19:37, 11 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Let's wait for the official White House photo to be released. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 19:42, 11 November 2016 (UTC)


 * That file is a blatant copyvio and has been tagged for deletion. -  Mlpearc  ( open channel ) 19:43, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
 * It has? Link please? --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 23:11, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

In reference to a photograph, what does "more Patriotic" mean? It means more Americanized,her showing modern american style as FLOTUS. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.184.72.143 (talk) 13:50, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

How many languages does she speak?
There's contradictory information. Depending on the source she's fluent in anywhere between 3 and 5 languages. Article includes a source for 5, https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/meet-melania-trump-a-new-model-for-first-lady/2015/09/30/27ad0a9c-6781-11e5-8325-a42b5a459b1e_story.html and http://uk.businessinsider.com/10-things-you-might-not-know-about-melania-trump-2016-7?r=US&IR=T say 4, etc, all of which are moderately recent. I would either include a sample source of each or remove the statement altogether. 2A02:AA13:8105:2500:4903:FBEA:5F26:87A0 (talk) 06:38, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

She speaks 6 different languages: I included one reference source in the article (see here). This is in agreement with other Wiki pages, as well as with her personal history. Many ones miss Italian language, which makes sense she knows having worked in Milan to begin her modeling career. Then Serbian is not fully correct, because it can be at most Serbo-Croatian language, but much more likley in some Croatian variant, a language which is commonly known by many Slovenes in the southern part of the country. Filippo83 (talk) 15:40, 9 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Yeah, "if there's no consensus we'll go with the highest number" is definitely the best approach, especially if we get to validate sources through guesswork. 2A02:AA13:8105:2500:4C97:379E:D87A:2EB6 (talk) 20:29, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

Distinction from Louisa Adams
Worth adding? While Louisa Adams was born abroad, Melania Trump is the first American First Lady to be a naturalized rather than natural-born citizen.

Source: http://www.history.com/topics/first-ladies/louisa-adams — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.159.57.4 (talk) 23:10, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

Name?
Is "Melania Knauss Trump" in the lead correct? There are several news sites that use this name, but AFAIK it is not as widespread as "Hillary Rodham Clinton", for example. -  C HAMPION  (talk) (contributions) (logs) 23:14, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Not be moving to the White House
Rumors are speculating that she will not be moving to the White House after her husband is inaugurated on the 20th of January and remain at Trump Tower, is this worth mentioning in the article per WP:CRYSTAL? See. -  C HAMPION  (talk) (contributions) (logs) 23:06, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Crystal at this point. We'll have to wait for actual decisions/announcements. It wouldn't be surprising if she remains in New York through the rest of their son's school term. For that matter Trump himself appears to want to split his time between the White House and New York. --MelanieN (talk) 23:08, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Update:, this has been confirmed by Trump. (- [[User:Champion| C HAMPION] (talk) (contributions) (logs) 23:20, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Autism
Can someone add in some background on the new First Lady's work with Autism charities. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.224.32.138 (talk) 17:35, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

The Trumps - the whole family have been great supporters of Autism awareness and charitable work. Can someone expand on this?

http://www.ageofautism.com/2015/09/trumps-stands-with-my-son-i-stand-with-trump.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.173.229.2 (talk) 23:28, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Rivalry with Ivana Trump
Can someone expand on the potential rivalry between Ivanka Trump and Melania Trump.

It was covered here in 2015:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3298508/She-t-talk-t-speech-Donald-Trump-s-ex-wife-Ivana-slams-current-spouse-Melania-suggests-make-better-Lady.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.173.229.2 (talk) 23:32, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Last line in opening paragraph is factually incorrect and contradicts itself.
It claims that Melania is the first first lady not to be born in the US or someplace that would become the US immediately after mentioning Louisa Adams who was born in London England, which last I checked is not now and never has been part of the United States. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.13.204.69 (talk) 03:59, 11 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Actually, it claims that Ms. Trump is the first first lady not to be born a citizen of the United States. Ms. Adams, despite being born outside the United States, was the child of an American and, therefore, an American citizen at birth. There is no contradiction. Rebb  ing  04:24, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

First First lady to pose nude
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3201088/Melania-Trump-Lady-pose-NUDE-talk-incredible-sex-life-Donald-Howard-Stern-rival-Jackie-Kennedy-elegance-style-quiet-strength.html

you gotta put this in the intro somewhere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:BD1A:1BE0:E424:EB0:8EC3:917A (talk) 22:51, 12 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Don't really see how that's relevant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.64.200.111 (talk) 05:46, 13 November 2016 (UTC)


 * It is hugely relevant, as it reflects changing social norms. It would have been unthinkable for a woman who posed for semi-pornographic, lesbian-themed photos to serve as First Lady in earlier administrations. This is a revolutionary change and should be noted.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.184.72.143 (talk) 13:53, 13 November 2016 (UTC)


 * While we have sources for her modeling and the descriptions of the photos in question, I don't think we have any reliable sources opining about the groundbreaking nature of her first ladyship yet, so drawing that conclusion would be original research. Even with sources, any mentions would have to avoid editorializing and undue weight—particularly a concern were this to be put in the lede. Rebb  ing  01:48, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

20thjan 2017 change not 2016 Dkji (talk) 14:10, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

Everything 17 nothing 16 Dkji (talk) 14:10, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

Does her father pass GNG?
Was he a prominent Communist/businessman in Slovenia? I know nothing about Slovenia. Here's an article with a picture: Michele Obama's mother has an article (Marian Shields Robinson), but not her father (Fraser C. Robinson III is a redirect). Are Melania Trump's parents sufficiently notable?Zigzig20s (talk) 02:53, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

Adams
I removed the statement about Trump becoming the first First Lady to not be born a US citizen or to be born outside what is or would later become the United States. Louisa Adams was the first, in these situations. GoodDay (talk) 16:01, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm OK with this. I think what is currently in the article (the second foreign-born First Lady) is adequate. --MelanieN (talk) 16:21, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

Grammatical issue
In the section 'Role in the 2016 U.S. presidential campaign' the sentence of Trump played a relatively small role in her husband's campaign—atypical of spouses of presidential running mates. should be 'Melania Trump played a relatively small role in her husband's campaign, a typical of spouses of presidential running mates.', as it is too general. Wagnerp16 (talk) 10:21, 16 January 2017 (UTC)
 * No, I think they mean atypical, or unusual.Zigzig20s (talk) 10:38, 16 January 2017 (UTC)
 * My mistake sorry about that, but I do think that the sentence should start with 'Melania Trump' instead of 'Trump' for conciseness and clarity, even though the article is about her. I can't make the suggested edit, as the article is protected as Melania Trump is the First Lady designate. Wagnerp16 (talk) 10:50, 17 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I believe "Trump" would be more concise than "Melania Trump." I also weakly oppose adding "Melania" for the reasons explained in MOS:SURNAME and Writing about women § Use surnames (essay). Rebb  ing  14:05, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 January 2017
Change the First Lady's photo to her twitter photo, https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/822158142842675200/jVYYxrnL.jpg Paul09787654321qaz (talk) 02:00, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
 * ❌ Please see the discussion above, consensus has not been reached -  C HAMPION  (talk) (contributions) (logs) 02:02, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 January 2017
I would like for Mrs. Trump's ascension to first ladyship to be changed from "Assumed office" to "Assumed role" for the sake of consistency (cc Michelle Obama, Laura Bush, Hillary Clinton). However, if such is part of standard Wikipedia protocol (which I'd be interested in being referred to), then this request can be ignored. Frevangelion (talk) 02:26, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Thank you for pointing that out. regards,  DRAGON BOOSTER   ★  06:13, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

Photo
This new photo just looks terrible, I think we'd better restore the original until a more official portrait is released, also, I notice it was changed without discussion. -  C HAMPION  (talk) (contributions) (logs) 20:15, 20 January 2017 (UTC)


 * For reference, these are the two photographs:


 * I don't see anything glaringly off about the whitehouse.gov image, but I have no objection to you reverting until further discussion occurs. Rebb  ing  20:37, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
 * It's probably worth watching c:Commons:Deletion requests/File:Melania Trump portrait.jpg. The metadata says the image was taken in 2008, which I find a little hard to compute. -- zzuuzz (talk) 20:40, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I also find the metadata confusing, especially since Getty lists it as being from 2016. However, the metadata also reflects that it was taken with a Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ50, a camera released in 2006; I doubt a professional photographer would still be using that in 2016. Either way, the image is almost certainly not free. Rebb  ing  21:04, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I suppose it's possible the camera's clock was wrong, but I think the copyright question lingers - being used on the White House website doesn't make it the work of a federal employee, and especially considering it may have existed elsewhere before. I am not known for my taste in pictures, but I happen to think the black and white photo is less "good" than the other one. There is nothing compelling us to use an official photo. -- zzuuzz (talk) 22:10, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I notice that it has now been changed to this photo, which IMO, is slightly worse than the one we previously had (I have not made up my mind as to which of the two older pictures I prefer), I have added that to the gallery, I do not want to make any further changes until there is consensus in this discussion, I'm waiting for whitehouse.gov to actually release a portrait similar to this one. -  C HAMPION  (talk) (contributions) (logs) 23:54, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
 * The image has been deleted per the Commons discussion, so the subject of discussion is now which of the two is preferred. -  C HAMPION  (talk) (contributions) (logs) 22:33, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 January 2017
in addition to her native Slovenian, Melania Trump speaks four other languages: English, French, Serbian and German. From: http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/a-crash-course-on-melania-trump/12/ Danreo1952 (talk) 15:00, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
 * It already mentions the languages she speaks at the end of the early life section. - GB fan 15:36, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

Listing Twitter accounts?
Can you please change her Twitter account to her new one (FLOTUS) on wiki. Jvfmgnlllj (talk) 06:51, 23 January 2017 (UTC)


 * The article doesn't currently list either account. Is this something we want to do? If so, these would be the two accounts to list:


 * (personal)
 * (official)


 * It doesn't appear Ms. Trump is using the FLOTUS account. Keeping in mind the guidance given at WP:ELMINOFFICIAL, my thought is that we should list only her personal Twitter feed, at least until her FLOTUS account is more active. Rebb  ing  13:13, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Twitter accounts are not normally included in articles, per WP:ELNO. We would need to build local consensus to add either. Such a consensus was reached for Donald Trump but it doesn't automatically apply to the First Lady. — JFG talk 06:46, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Edit Request because I'm not tech-savvy.
I have edit privileges, and I edited the section discussing Melania Trump's distinctions as First Lady, related to her nationality and language fluency. Because of the additions and changes, I believe the note about Louisa Adams (Note A, the only note) is now redundant with the article text. However, I am not familiar with the templates and wiki markup used to add the note, so I don't know how to delete it. If my edits remain substantially intact, could someone please remove that note if the basic information remains present in the article? --DavidK93 (talk) 16:49, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
 * ✅ — JFG talk 06:54, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Support for autism
Can someone add in all the good work the Trumps have done all over the last few years to support families that have Autistic children? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.224.32.138 (talk) 17:31, 25 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Can you supply links to reliable sources that detail how Ms. Trump has worked to help families with autistic children? I did a hasty Google search but found nothing directly on point. Rebb  ing  17:58, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

First non-native speaker, really?
I am sure Hannah Van Buren would have been a native Dutch speaker like her husband. Is a better source than Marie Claire available? Like a historical society or the like? Valentina Cardoso (talk) 23:22, 25 January 2017 (UTC) Valentina Cardoso (talk) 23:22, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Ignore me, I never knew HVB was already dead when MVB was in office Valentina Cardoso (talk) 23:25, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Photo
There is now a more recent, and somewhat better photo. Jean-Jacques Georges (talk) 11:31, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
 * This picture is already included in the RfC options. Please contribute your opinion there. — JFG talk 17:21, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 January 2017
Change the image of the infobox to A (i.e.File:Melania Trump at Inaugural parade.jpg) per above discussion. 219.79.97.121 (talk) 11:05, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
 * ❌ – The picture should not be changed while the RfC discussion is ongoing, which normally lasts for 30 days. Feel free to voice your preference above. — JFG talk 17:24, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

Typo
Melania's name has a "J" in it. It's in the early life section " Melanija attended the Secondary School of Design and Photography in Ljubljana." I would have removed it myself but the page is protected. Thank you! PaulG524 (talk) 18:25, 27 January 2017 (UTC)
 * It is correct, she was using the name Melanija early in her life (says also the intro). --Tone 18:40, 27 January 2017 (UTC)

No it isn't. I have found numerous credible sources in which her birth name is not spelled that way. PaulG524 (talk) 22:35, 27 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Sources as? There is a report of her birth from a local newspaper from 1970, that should be reliable enough. Dolenjski list. Most Slovenian source use Melanija for her early life. --Tone 23:42, 27 January 2017 (UTC)


 * "Melania" is the English spelling of her name.  In Slovene her name is rendered "Melanija."   Names that we in English would end in "NIA" they end in "NIJA."   "Slovenia" itself is spelled "Slovenija" in the Slovene language.   This is because they pronounce the letter "J" like we would pronounce the letter "Y" as in the word "yes."   She Americanized her name when she came to the U.S. most likely to assimilate.  I learned about Slovene name spellings when my mother brought back a book from Juguslavija written in Slovene and English.   At the time my hobby was studying the etymology of names.   See the Wikipedia article about Yugoslavia/Jugoslavija and Slovenia/Slovinija.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 January 2017
Please change infobox line "Assumed office". The President's spouse does not hold any public office. It is an honorary role. 106.71.106.144 (talk) 01:57, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
 * ❌ The general consensus is to use "Assumed office", see this old revision for Michelle Obama, for example. -  C HAMPION  (talk) (contributions) (logs) 03:55, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

Education
Why is there no mention of her education anywhere in the biography? Specifically, the controversy. --Wikipedia Wonderful 698-D (talk) 03:56, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
 * The article does say "Melanija attended the Secondary School of Design and Photography in Ljubljana,[15] and studied at the University of Ljubljana for one year before dropping out.[16][17][18]" --MelanieN (talk) 17:51, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Please also read the second sentence. --Wikipedia Wonderful 698-D (talk) 18:24, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

Plagiarism
In regards to Melania's response to Donald Trumps possible presidency (second paragraph under the First Lady of The United States section), after reviewing the Wikipedia essentials, this is a violation and categorized as cited plagiarism. Text's need to be written according to the authors understanding, not copied word for word or paraphrased. Thank you! Wizpig10 (talk) 20:32, 1 February 2017 (UTC) —Preceding undated comment added 20:30, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 February 2017
Request to change "Assumed office" to "In role" for the infobox.

This request was made above but confusingly refused. Michelle Obama, Laura Bush, Hillary Clinton, and Barbara Bush all say "In role" for their services as First Lady. Presumably the first ladies before that also say "in role", but that's as far as I clicked.

- kara ❈ talk  05:33, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Done by User:DRAGON_BOOSTER. — xaosflux  Talk 05:42, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
 * ✅ I changed the first time also, but Gag0409 removed the parameters just after two revisions of my edit. It has been "Assumed office" until I fixed again. regards, DRAGON BOOSTER   ★  06:03, 2 February 2017 (UTC).

Sentence Clarity
Is it possible to add some clarity to the sentence "Trump suggested his middle name, and her husband suggested his first name."? As is, it is very vague who "Trump" refers to. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.22.21.197 (talk) 20:35, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

Louisa Johnson Adams
I'm not sure if it needs clarification, but while the statement about Mrs. Trump being the first foreign born first lady since Louisa Adams is technically correct, it should be noted that Louisa Johnson Adams was born a U.S. citizen since she was the daughter of an American diplomat stationed in London at the time, whereas Mrs. Trump was not born a U.S. citizen. I would like to see this distinction neatly incorporated into the article but I won't make a change unless there is a consensus. Comments? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.191.251.196 (talk) 19:32, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

Education
Can we have some additional scrutiny regarding her education? The article states that she attended the University of Ljubljana for a year then dropped out. My cousin who taught at that university for two years informs me she found no record of her attendance there. She was unable to locate transcripts for her and she would normally have access to student transcripts. That school keeps transcripts for all students, former and current, permanently in the event the student may one day wish to return or use those transcripts for employment or further education elsewhere just like all universities do. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.191.251.196 (talk) 20:04, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

Lawsuit against Mail Media
It appears that User:Light show is edit-warring against multiple users to remove an extremely well sourced mention of her high profile law suit against one of the world's largest newspapers, filed now in February after she became first lady. The story is not really the allegation in the original Daily Mail article, but the revelation by herself that she intends to profit from the first lady position and her husband's office. This section is entirely based on her own public claims in a lawsuit she has filed as first lady which she describes as a "unique, once in a lifetime opportunity" to "launch a broad-based commercial brand" to establish "multimillion dollar business relationships" in her current capacity; reliable sources agree this information is highly relevant and noteworthy (see ) --Tataral (talk) 22:40, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
 * The topic is already being discussed above in "Libel suit" section. There is no edit warring going on.--Light show (talk) 22:46, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
 * You are mistaken. BLPREQUESTRESTORE requires that clear consensus be developed before restoring the challenged material: we err on the side of restraint in these matters. Best. Rebb  ing  23:22, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
 * No, you are mistaken. This is only a case of WP:IDONTLIKEIT, and I have not seen a single policy-argument for its exclusion and not a single valid BLP objection (the idea that mentioning her own public claims in her own lawsuit, widely reported on by RS, is a BLP violation, is clearly frivolous). --Tataral (talk) 09:19, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Actually arbitration sanctions at the top of the page indicate that consensus must be had before material reverted can be reinstated. I've started an RfC to get the widest community input. Coretheapple (talk) 18:15, 8 February 2017 (UTC)


 * See discussion above, Note what I posted above re a New York Times editorial. I agree that we are creating an NPOV issue by excluding mention. But for efficiency sake let's please keep the discussion in one place. Coretheapple (talk) 14:21, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

Citizenship
It says that she married Donald Trump in January 2005, but did not become a US citizen until 2006. Is that correct? Would she not have become a US citizen upon marrying Donald Trump? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.146.103.149 (talk) 20:32, 19 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Short answer: no. If you marry a U.S. citizen, you become eligible to APPLY for citizenship, after meeting certain requirements including length of residence etc. But citizenship isn't instant or automatic. --MelanieN (talk) 22:12, 19 January 2017 (UTC)


 * That is true but I would add that a person must live in the U.S. for at least five years before being eligible to become a citizen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.191.251.196 (talk) 19:25, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

The information on when she became a permanent resident, and when she gained US citizenship need a "CitationNeeded" tag added, as the article does not provide any data to support that assertion. DBalling (talk) 23:30, 11 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Hm. I see we reference cites later in the article. Should those cites appear up here on the first mention of that fact, and not buried down on a later mention? DBalling (talk) 23:43, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

"Melania Trump ... was paid for 10 modeling jobs in 1996 before she received legal authorization to work in the United States". That's snipped from the lede para of a WaPo article from last November. It re-reports the results of a well-sourced Associated Press investigation that relied on documents filed in an unrelated modelling firm lawsuit. This news made it's way for a time into the M. Trump article, including a verbal denial of the allegations from M. Trump's lawyer. The edit to this reporting has since been removed.

I've gone back through the edit archive and consulted the talk archives as well but can't find any discussion or cited reasoning for the removal of a credible fact based on a wiki-approved, reliable source. Can anyone point me to/cite the reason why this brief addition to M. Trump's immigration section was added, then removed? To be clear, this issue is unrelated to a controversy around M. Trump's nude modeling work that also came and went on these pages. This is a separate instance.

My proposal is to re-insert the WaPo/AP reporting with appropriate links. Soliciting comments.

For the edit history, see https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Melania_Trump&offset=20161108104918&action=history and the changes being made at November 5, date of the AP report. Find the WaPo piece and the AP source investigation linked atop this page -- https://www.google.com/#q=did+melania+trump+worked+here+illegally&* of Google search results.

Thanks for reading. Will monitor this page for responses before making any edit.

Missing information
his bio is missing her history of doing nude lesbian sado masochistic photos, and of working in the US without a work permit.. Those are well documented were highly publicized and should be included if wikipedia is to be accurate and neutral — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.77.137.75 (talk) 04:54, 12 February 2017 (UTC)
 * She did some nude photos as part of her modeling career; what's wrong with that? The former First Lady of France did the same, and nobody blamed her. I don't think it needs to be specifically mentioned. Regarding your assertion that she worked in the USA illegally, do you have any reliable sources documenting this? We know she modeled in various countries, including stints in the USA, which probably did not require a specific work permit at first, as she would have been booked by her European agent. Then, starting in 1996, she obtained several H-1B temporary residence visas, applied for a green card and moved to the country permanently in 2001, married Trump in 2005 and finally became a US citizen in 2006. If there was anything illegal about her US work and residency, surely this would have been uncovered during the campaign scrutiny. — JFG talk 09:06, 12 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Why shouldn't it be mentioned if it discussed by reliable sources? Coretheapple (talk) 20:47, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

Disagreement over "Missing information" question
I am reverting Malerooster's (silent—contra TPO) redaction of this question. This is an acceptable question to ask, and, while I would not use the same language in describing Ms. Trump's modelling photographs, it's not far off base. These two sources provide support for the facts alleged by the IP, thus, I believe BLPTALK's relevance and references requirement is satisfied: Rebb ing  23:46, 12 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Please do not restore BLP violations, even on a talk page. --Malerooster (talk) 02:43, 13 February 2017 (UTC)


 * There is no colorable BLP violation in either of the IP's claims:
 * Ms. Trump's alleged history of "doing nude lesbian sado masochistic [sic] photos" The New York Post article describes one of the photographs under discussion: "In another photo, [another woman model] . . . raises a whip as if preparing to spank Melania, who pretends to recoil." The IP's summary is supported by this article—a source we could permissibly cite ourselves.
 * Ms. Trump's alleged history of "working in the US without a work permit" The AP article states: "Melania Trump was paid for 10 modeling jobs in the United States worth $20,056 that occurred in the seven weeks before she had legal permission to work in the country, according to detailed accounting ledgers, contracts and related documents from 20 years ago provided to The Associated Press." The IP's summary accurately reflects a reliable source. There is no BLP violation.
 * These two claims may be unfavorable to the subject, but that in itself doesn't mean that they violate the biographies of living persons policy. The policy merely requires that contentious material be reliably sourced; it is not a cudgel to silence discussions. Curiously, you chose to silently redact the IP's comment—convention holds that you should have notated the modification—but you did not censor JFG's repetition of the IP's statements that you claim violate BLP. Rebb  ing  03:32, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Rebbing, its to bad that you would edit war over this and feed the troll, you should know better, but obviously not. I will not revert again since you will just revert this. --Malerooster (talk) 03:35, 13 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Your rationale for silently modifying the IP's question was invalid and repeatedly carried out contrary to convention; there is no reason to assume bad faith by the IP; and at least two established editors appear to believe this is a legitimate topic. You don't need to be patronizing: we've both reverted twice. However, I will not be reverting you further. Rebb  ing  04:05, 13 February 2017 (UTC)


 * I'm going to close this discussion. It is a borderline BLP violation started by a troll who deliberately used inflammatory language not found in the sources. This never became a major issue. Risqué pictures from early in her modeling career were discretely ignored by virtually all mainstream publications. As for the immigration issue, during the campaign it did get some coverage but nothing came of it. During the campaign when coverage was at its height there was discussion here and general. consensus was not to mention it. Nothing  has happened since then to change that. MelanieN alt (talk) 15:13, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

RfC: Photo
Which photo should be used in the infobox? This discussion was started because it keeps getting changed without discussion. For the record, as I am writing this the image is File:Melania Trump at Inaugural parade.jpg. Feel free to suggest any other images not listed below. -  C HAMPION  (talk) (contributions) (logs) 22:54, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

Survey

 * B – Best quality among three rather poor choices. — JFG talk 12:51, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Summoned by bot. No strong preference but lean slightly toward A. I assume that sometime soon the White House will produce an official photo, which is likely to be usable. Coretheapple (talk) 15:44, 22 January 2017 (UTC) I was pinged again about the new photo, and I appreciate that as indeed D is in my opinion the superior choice. Changing to that. Coretheapple (talk) 20:14, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
 * A, more recent and higher quality. MB298 (talk) 04:29, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
 * A, photo taken since she became first lady. RedBear2040 (talk) 04:38, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
 * A, better quality and more of a picture worthy pose too. Ralphw (talk) 17:54, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
 * A - For the time being until an official portrait is taken. The image has good lighting and is of better quality than the alternatives. Meatsgains (talk) 22:12, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
 * A - best choice--Kacir 07:21, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
 * D – Much better view of her face than A. Striking prior vote for B when D wasn't available. — JFG talk 06:43, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I weakly prefer C or B. A, while nicely posed (and the prettiest, in my view), is blurry, and Ms. Trump is poorly isolated. Rebb  ing  13:54, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
 * D, then B, then A, then C - None of these photo's are ideal. I'm surprised A has garnered so much support. Terrible resolution. We really need to get the official photo. NickCT (talk) 15:48, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
 * comment - Before we lock-in any of the above images, let's try to acquire a much better photo. I will attempt to do so today and upload it to Commons. Atsme 📞📧 13:53, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Kudos to Atsme for pointing to the right course of action. I love extended debates like the one above when the right answer is "just find another image". NickCT (talk) 20:37, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Agree with the above. None of these photos are ideal. Pretty much poor lighting all around. For an article that is, at times, getting 1g+ views a day, it's worth the extra time to attempt to find a better option, rather than choosing the least worst. Timothy Joseph Wood  13:24, 27 January 2017 (UTC)


 * D, then A, then B, then C. Jean-Jacques Georges (talk) 14:51, 27 January 2017 (UTC)
 * A seems to be best choice. It's a recent high quality photo. --DynaGirl (talk) 16:03, 27 January 2017 (UTC)
 * - Ok.... maybe I'm going nuts, but that photo looks really pixelated to me. Is something wrong with me monitor? How is this image "high quality"? NickCT (talk) 04:10, 28 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Pic A appears comparably pixilated as other choices to me. It's taken from an angle where Melania is facing forward, unlike pic D. It is also an image which is recognizable as being taken in her new official capacity as first lady of the United States, which makes it a superior choice to pic B and C in my opinion. --DynaGirl (talk) 14:45, 28 January 2017 (UTC)
 * - I can see the individual pores in her face in pic D. Pic A doesn't appear to have anywhere near that resolution. Agree that pose in A might be better, but the photo quality (i.e. the degree of resolution/lighting etc) is wholly superior in D. NickCT (talk) 15:24, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
 * That is a closer shot of her face but she isn't facing forward in that pic. You can only see one side of her face.--DynaGirl (talk) 17:40, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
 * - Are you clicking to enlarge the image? The resolution difference should become really obvious with the enlarged image. NickCT (talk) 21:00, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, I'm clicking to enlarge the image. Large or small, Melania is not facing forward in pic D and I personally don't think being able to see her pores is really important or makes up for fact that she is facing off to the side in that image. --DynaGirl (talk) 21:11, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
 * - Ok. So you see D is better resolution then? I agree that the pose might be better in A, but the "quality" (i.e. resolution/lighting etc) is clearly better in D. I guess the question is whether you think image quality trumps pose or vice versa (pun intended). Not sure there's necessarily a right answer to that... NickCT (talk) 14:10, 31 January 2017 (UTC)


 *  B D: Neutral pose, recent enough, and unlike D she's facing into the page, which is best. Plus you can see her eyes. I would boost the contrast a bit. --Light show (talk) 04:38, 28 January 2017 (UTC)
 * D: This is absolutely the best photo. It is a high quality portrait, with a neutral pose, and moreover it's recent. Nick.mon (talk) 11:35, 29 January 2017 (UTC).
 * D: No distracting background, very current, high quality, neutral pose. Gouncbeatduke (talk) 14:34, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
 * D': Best photo, high quality, no distractions. Missvain (talk) 17:34, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
 * A': The D photo is too close-up and makes her look scary, not neutral. Someone Not Awful (talk) 23:37, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
 * D Brought here by the bot . Though it has an Eva Peron-quality to it, D is highest quality, most recent, and presents a neutral pose. DarjeelingTea (talk) 04:33, 6 February 2017 (UTC)
 * D Best photo yet. Corkythe hornetfan  (ping me) 20:09, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
 * A - best photo. --221.126.236.94 (talk) 07:48, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
 * D The best option. Itsyoungrapper (talk) 21:11, 14 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Question – I am asking editors who !voted early to take another look, given that only options A, B and C were available when they voiced their opinion, so that picture D didn't get fair exposure. Please indicate whether you would still support your earlier choice or pick another one given the A, B, C and D options. — JFG talk 07:01, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I maintain my decision, please proceed with picture A. Ralphw (talk) 15:15, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
 * My vote is still A. RedBear2040 (talk) 19:08, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
 * As noted above, I've switched to D. Thanks for apprising me of the new photo. Coretheapple (talk) 20:15, 17 February 2017 (UTC)


 * A -- the quality is poor, but the pose is one of the better ones. Also immediately recognisable as being from the inauguration. Failing A, then B as a higher quality photo, but the crop is rather awkward. K.e.coffman (talk) 02:22, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
 * D as best choice out of those given. jcc (tea and biscuits) 17:23, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Discussion
If we're going to conduct a 30-day RfC over this, I would strongly urge a revert to the longstanding Melania picture before the edit-warring began. (We've learned so much from the Donald Trump portrait debates…) I'll do that revert right now. — JFG talk 12:51, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment I have just added another one, it was briefly changed to this one, my opinion: It is probably the worst of all of them, highly reminiscent of the Donald Trump image we had until a few days ago. -  C HAMPION  (talk) (contributions) (logs) 23:21, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

Why isn't the photo from The White House website, https://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/first-lady-melania-trump, being used? Donald Trump, Mike Pence, and Karen Pence's pages all use the photo being shown on their whitehouse.gov page. --Flyguy33 (talk) 16:45, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

What next?
The RfC is now well over 30 days, with pictures A and D sharing the preferences of editors about equally. There is very little support for the current picture in the article, so it wouldn't look fair to call "no consensus" and leave that one as status quo. What can we do? Relist the RfC with just A and D choices? Place the "most voted" one in the article? Advertise the RfC more widely? If we don't reach consensus here on the next course of action, we should call upon an admin to perform a formal close. — JFG talk 09:00, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

Opening Paragraph
There is an article missing in the second sentence of the opening paragraph. "Prior to becoming the First Lady, Trump was a Slovene American former model" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.39.100.21 (talk) 13:56, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
 * --Light show (talk) 17:56, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
 * The phrasing is actually pretty weird. She's a former model, certainly, but it's odd to describe her as having been a "former" model prior to becoming First Lady.  It's also weird to describe her nationality as part of what she "formerly" was.  I'm going to add some sourced language that describes her as having been a model and businesswoman, before becoming a self-described "full-time mom" prior to becoming First Lady, and I'm going to reword the statement of her nationality.  --DavidK93 (talk) 16:00, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks, and I have further edited the prose for clarity and chronology. — JFG talk 11:02, 7 March 2017 (UTC)