Talk:Mendicant orders

Jesuits as mendicants
The Jesuit page says that order is mendicant yet it is not listed on the Mendicant Orders page. Why?


 * No one has made the change yet. Perhaps they were waiting for you to do it ;-)? Time to be bold?


 * Atlant 13:21, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Does anyone have the knowledge to answer this question? The Jesuits are a very late order, founded 1534, and it exists very much apart from founding principals of the earlier orders. MonteGargano (talk) 07:06, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
 * "Jesuits, though mendicants in the strict sense of the word, as is evident from the very explicit declaration of St. Pius V (Const. "Cum indefessæ", 1571), are classed not as mendicants or friars, but as clerics regular, being founded with a view to devoting themselves, even more especially than the friars, to the exercise of the sacred ministry." Cleary, Gregory. "Friar." The Catholic Encyclopedia. Vol. 6. New York: Robert Appleton Company, 1909 Manannan67 (talk) 05:34, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

bikkhus only in SEA?
the article says that in buddhism, bikkhus 'survive' only in theravada countries. But the vinaya is afaik not different in mahayana countries (not in a significant way; the shravaka sarvastivadins would surely have been considered bikshus in ancient India, and modern mahayana uses either their vinaya or the even more similar dharmaguptaka vinaya); has same rules and uses the same term (or equivalent in sanskrit instead of pali). There was even some back-and-forth crosspolination for the purposes of revivals of female orders, first some time in the history the female lineage in china was 'strengthened' from sri lanka nuns, and recently the reverse happened, since the female tradition was lost in theravada. So clearly their rules are highly similar and even compatible. Some short info on this http://www.thubtenchodron.org/BuddhistNunsMonasticLife/the_present_status_of_the_bhikshuni_ordination.html The only exception would afaik be the Japanese zen 'priests' since they can marry and dont follow the vinaya, but they dont claim to be bikshus anyways. In short, I think this is incorrect and will remove it. --83.131.150.68 13:06, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Dervishes
Added Dervishes under non-christian mendicant orders. Technically, though, do they count as an 'order?' Peter Deer (talk) 19:33, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Four Original Orders... or Five?
The article says (following the Catholic Encyclopedia) that there were four original Mendicant Orders. This after having listed five. The Servites are not mentioned by the Catholic Encyclopedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gwybedyn (talk • contribs) 01:06, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

The Servites were in fact suppressed by the Council of Lyon, putting into force a decree of the Second Lateran Council of 1215 that forbade the foundation of new orders--quite the opposite of the claim in this article that the Council recognized them with the other four. The Servites were formed in 1233, well after the order of 1215, and they were therefore invalid, according to the 'rules', and this was enforced in Lyon. Somewhat later, in 1304, Pope Benedict XI issued a bull that legitimized the Servites. Additionally, in the popular imagination, there have only ever been four mendicant orders. This is evident in folk traditions, such as the '13 desserts' of the Christmas table in Provence, which include the 'quatre mendicants' or 'four beggars': raisins, walnuts, dried figs, and almonds to represent the Dominicans, Augustines, Franciscans, and Carmelites. MonteGargano (talk) 18:51, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

No one claimed ownership, so I edited the section of the four approved orders of the 13th century, the provisions of the Fourth Lateran Council 1215 and the Second Council of Lyon 1274, and the subsequent mendicant orders. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MonteGargano (talk • contribs) 07:03, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

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