Talk:Metropolis at Metrotown

Metrotown is 3rd largest mall in Canada
See this page from Square One Shopping Centre's website and it clearly states that Square One is #2. --Mb1000 04:36, 11 August 2006 (UTC)


 * City of Burnaby's website says Metrotown's #2 in Canada (PDF file). This site also concurs. -→ Buchanan-Hermit ™ / ?!  04:39, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Also Ivanhoe Cambridge's property info. Metrotown also has more parking spaces, floors, anchors, stores, and retail space than Square One, according to their respective articles. Carson 04:42, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, I would have to disagree. More stores or retail space does not necessarily mean larger. In addition to Square One's official website (which is frequently updated and is unlikely to contain innacurate information) the following webpages also concur with my edit, and agree that Square One is the second largest mall in Canada:


 * Mississauga welcome page from the Credit Valley Hospital


 * Press release from menswear retailer Harry Rosen

--Mb1000 05:11, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * "With the reclassification of the West Edmonton Mall as an entertainment complex, Square One is now the largest retail shopping centre in Canada." Looks like it might be #1 instead of #2 if the website's accurate... Carson 05:54, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm emailing all three malls to see what they have to say. Maybe I'll get replies tomorrow. The Square One website contradicts itself by saying it's #2, but also saying it's #1 because West Edmonton Mall is an "entertainment complex". The one thing the Square One website and its property owner Oxford Properties agrees on is that it's the largest mall in Ontario (Oxford does not mention anything about Canada). So far more sources refer to Metrotown as #2 than Square One. West Edmonton Mall is "world's largest entertainment and shopping centre" so that might be contradictory to Square One's claim of being #1. Carson 06:39, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Good work. Keep it up! :) --Mb1000 17:57, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Two points on this: One, before the Metrotown expansion, Square One was clearly the second largest mall in Canada, and this was widely publicized, so it's not surprising that some people keep repeating this factoid in press releases or what have you. It's also not surprising that Square One keeps making this claim, as being the second biggest is probably a big selling point for the mall when it come to attracting retailers and tourists. None of these claims are backed by any hard evidence.

Two, there seem to be a number of different measures used to gauge the size of malls. For example, the Mall of America is famous as the biggest mall in the U.S., but it is actually only the biggest when it comes to total area. There are actually a number of American malls that are bigger when measured by amount of leaseable retail space. By that meassure, Metrotown would seem to be the bigger mall. If Square One's claim is based on the fact that it has a bigger total area, that should be supported by actual data on the areas of the two malls. The only other way Square One could claim to be bigger is if Metrotown is looked at as two seperate entities rather than a single mall. This is the case with the King of Prussia Mall, which claims to be the second-biggest mall in America, but on most lists is broken down into three smaller malls.

- timminspress 12/08/2006

I got a response from Metrotown:

Is that sufficient? Carson 23:08, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

What was the response from Square One? --Mb1000 18:52, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * They haven't responded yet. I got a reply from the property manager saying that she forwarded my question to Square One's management office, and I haven't heard from them since. Carson 22:34, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

What about the line "and third largest in North America" - third largest in what? I can't see anything that would qualify it for that... Astorrs (talk) 01:29, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
 * 3rd largest mall in all of North America. Luke! (talk) 03:32, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Metropolis at Metrotown is the second most visited mall in Canada, but it is not the third largest mall in Canada in any category anymore. It is fifth largest in area. Zacharycmango (talk) 22:33, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

no consensus to move the page, per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 15:21, 29 September 2007 (UTC) Metrotown → Metropolis at Metrotown — "Metropolis at Metrotown" is the official mall name, not just "Metrotown". The article "Metrotown" must be moved to "Metropolis at Metrotown". —Steam5 19:54, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.


 * Oppose. We don't do official names, especially when, as here, they may be changed at the whim of the marketing department. See WP:COMMONNAME. What is the place actually called, in common English usage? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:38, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Metrotown is what absolutely everyone calls it. That's even what the SkyTrain station is called that gets you there. bobanny 05:37, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments: Steam5 19:54, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

I was unaware of the above discussion, and would have said "oppose", and the most important reason being the Metrotown is a neighbourhood and not just the shopping mall(s). This article should be split between the puff-piece on the mall and an account of the area and its sociology and history etc. Equating a shopping mall with a part of a city as if they were the same thing is just WRONG. In the state this article is in, if it has the Burnaby neighbouhoods template that shoudl be taken off, as right now it's about the mall (and the lede should be changed to match teh re-affirmed title.Skookum1 (talk) 14:55, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

History of the Metrotown area
Perusing various links this morning I found this article in the Vancouver Review by Terry Glavin, which has lots of stuff on the Metrotown area's history and former culture, before its Asiafication. Lots in this material should be in the Metrotown neighbourhood article, or perhaps the details of which part of which shopping centre is on top of the ruins/site of former businesses/homes/neighbourhoods could be integrated here....Skookum1 (talk) 14:55, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Metrotown neighbourhood vs. the mall itself
Maybe there should be one article for the neighborhood and one for the mall? I just moved to this neighborhood, and it's a dense urban area, so I'm kind of confused why there isn't an article about the location under the name Metrotown. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.49.171.157 (talk) 20:06, 23 June 2010 (UTC)


 * It's been a few years, but I've finally come across enough resources to write the article for the neighbourhood itself. I've been working on a draft at my sandbox; I probably have a few more things to add, but I think it's substantially done. The only thing I'm not quite sure about is whether/how to incorporate the existing info on the neighbourhood currently under the Surrounding neighbourhood and Planning for Metrotown sections. I've already included the bit on Crystal Mall; if you have an idea for working the rest in (or for that matter any other ways to improve the draft), feel free to edit my sandbox directly.


 * And now that the draft is almost ready for launch, it's probably time to revisit the article titles. A few options:
 * 1) Have the article for the neighbourhood at Metrotown, and move the existing article on the mall to Metropolis at Metrotown
 * 2) Keep the existing article on the mall at Metrotown (per WP:COMMONNAME), and have the article for the neighbourhood titled Metrotown, Burnaby or some such
 * 3) Have Metrotown as a disambiguation page, move the existing article on the mall to Metropolis at Metrotown, and have the article for the neighbourhood titled Metrotown, Burnaby or some such


 * Personally I'm leaning towards the first option, but I don't feel that strongly one way or another. Just thought I'd get the discussion going. - Hinto (talk) 18:05, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Looking at the Surrey articles just for interests sake, both Fleetwood and Guildford use the Town Centre in the name, so that's another option. The neighbourhood naming convention seems to be "X, Cityname" a la Barnhartvale, Kamloops.  As for the options you've listed, I'd support 1)  The population centre should usurp the (now outdated) brandname. Great article, by the way!  The Interior  (Talk) 18:52, 29 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Hinto, if you haven't already, see WP:CANSTYLE for guidelines on how to name the article. Hwy43 (talk) 23:33, 29 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I guess I'm just not comfortable deciding by myself whether the neighbourhood is primary usage for the name, since many people do call the mall Metrotown (look at the previous move request; though the circumstances are different now that the neighbourhood's article is ready for launch), that's why I wanted to form a consensus before proceeding. - Hinto (talk) 03:05, 1 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Since the current article is presently undisambiguated, I suggest the following:
 * Move Metrotown → Metrotown (shopping centre);
 * Create Metroplis at Metrotown as a redirect to Metrotown (shopping centre);
 * Create the stand alone neighbourhood article as Metrotown (neighbourhood);
 * Create Metrotown, Burnaby as a redirect to Metrotown (neighbourhood); and
 * Convert the now Metrotown redirect to a dab page that lists Metrotown (neighbourhood) and Metrotown (shopping centre).
 * See Bow City, Alberta as an example dab page. Hwy43 (talk) 09:34, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I support Hwy43's solution. Hinto, can you handle the page moves, or do you need some help? The Interior  (Talk) 05:36, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
 * If we go with this route, I think the names I suggested in my option 3 (ie. having the mall at Metropolis at Metrotown and the neighbourhood at Metrotown, Burnaby) fit with the existing naming guidelines better. Would anyone object to that? - Hinto (talk) 02:16, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I do not object. Looking above, there was opposition in the past, but that was 5 years ago when the name change was fresh and WP:COMMONNAME prevailed. Though I am not familiar with the mall, I would anticipate the former name is now much less common than it was 5 years ago, and the new name is now much more common than it was 5 years ago. Hwy43 (talk) 03:23, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

(reset indent) I suppose we'll proceed then. The Interior, could you please help with deleting the current Metropolis at Metrotown redirect, so we can move Metrotown there? I think I can do the rest on my own. Thanks. - Hinto (talk) 04:51, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Try listing at WP:RM/TR, citing this discussion as confirmation that it is non-controversial. Hwy43 (talk) 09:19, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Ponyo deleted it, ready for your move Hinto. The Interior  (Talk) 22:07, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Done. Thanks to both of you for your input and help! - Hinto (talk) 01:52, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Controversy section
This is a minor event, and a whole section devoted to it is undue emphasis. The source provided isn't even about the event; it is mentioned near the end of the piece as context. Here is how the Sun describes it: ''In that case, 16-year-old Jakub Markiewicz said his rights were violated when he was set upon by security guards and then arrested by police after photographing an incident at Metrotown. Doug MacDougall, director of Metrotown Properties, said Markiewicz started filming and didn’t stop when he was asked to by the security guards. The RCMP handcuffed Markiewicz and took him out of the mall. On Friday, Ministry of Justice spokeswoman Amy Lapsley said in an email that the security programs division contacted the Markiewicz’s family directly but, to date, a formal complaint had not been lodged. An investigation was launched anyway and concluded that there were no contraventions of the Security Services Act by the guards.''

So, no formal complaint, no one charged, much ado about nothing. I propose removing this section. The Interior (Talk) 16:16, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I suggest removing sections devoted to similar incidents at West Edmonton Mall, Pacific Centre and Harbour Centre that were pushed by the same IP in question. These were relatively minor incidents blown out of proportion and given undue weight in their respective articles. █  EMARSEE   18:38, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree. They were 'splash in the pan' news stories only covered locally. They wouldn't even belong in articles on the security companies as those article would be full of every little incident. Security companies are like towing companies, they do a controversial job and news media likes to tabloid every little incident. We are not news, nor a tabloid.--Canoe1967 (talk) 19:11, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I'll have to look at those in more detail, but they look like similar stuff. The fellow in the wheelchair did get a lot of press, for about three or four days.  The food court business seems especially trivial.  The Interior  (Talk) 00:21, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
 * The food court stuff isn't sourced either. I just remembered a similar entry in Electra Building (Vancouver) about a spill in 2010. It is still in the article.--Canoe1967 (talk) 00:44, 13 May 2013 (UTC)