Talk:Michael Holding

Holding's birth
His place of birth is missing from the opening paragraph. I'm unbable to edit it, but I know he was born in Half Way Tree, Kingston, Jamaica (from cricinfo.com)212.32.11.115 17:21, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Alberto Juantorena
There is a story that Holding defeated Juantorena (who won 400m and 800m in the 1976 olympics) in 400m in the 1970 World University games. Don't know how true it is. Tintin 15:06, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * False. See below. Adpete (talk) 07:09, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Johnner's gaffe
This article is quite inaccurate in stating that Johnner's "gaffe" was unintended - he knew fine well what he was about. Same as the famous "Botham just failed to get his leg over" remark. Also something should be added about Holding's famous picture kicking over the stumps in New Zealand in 1979/80.

See page 67 in the 1981 edition of Wisden Cricketer's Almanack. The photograph is captioned "Unbridled Dissent". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thermosoverfil (talk • contribs) 18:50, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

The Bowler's Holding
Is there any evidence that "The bowler's Holding the batsman's Willey" ever happened? It's a well known story and it certainly could have happened, but did it? If so, who said it on air, on what date? Failing that, when was the first time it appeared in print? E.g. who was the first commentator to put it in one of their memoirs?

I think this is one of the stories about TMS that may well not be true. In any case I think the evidence should be cited here. My strong suspicion is that somebody made it up wishing they had said it, probably Johnners. The story seems to have got stronger since the "LegOver" incident, since that showed that the most outrageous things could happen on TMS. But it's notable that the exact date (and time) of that is easily located, while this one is mysterious.

Note that the same story is told on the Willey and TMS pages. Again without evidence. I guess I will put a similar notice there.

I'd be tempted to put at least "citation needed", or even say that it's a well known story which has not been tracked down.

A 2003 article has Blowers saying it was in 1976 http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/test_match_special/2664751.stm. That is not really contemporary.

--85.210.32.94 21:21, 23 January 2007 (UTC)


 * There are 2 cites for it on the Johnners page. Both books unfortunately. --LiamE 00:59, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The reference to CMJ's book suggests that it didn't happen, Bill Frindall's autobiog doesn't mention it among countless TMS stories, I was inclined to believe that he would put it in if it was true Mdcollins1984 17:39, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Cricinfo's profile of Jonners also suggests that it is apocryphal Mdcollins1984 17:45, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

It is certainly not apocryphal. Brian Johnston often used the formula ‘the batsman’s X, the bowler’s Y’, and so one day he innocently said 'the batsman's Holding, the bowler's Willey' (sic: not the reverse). At first there was a stunned silence, then Johnston attempted to continue commentary, but his delivery soon became hoarse with suppressed laughter, and finally the whole commentary box dissolved in mirth. That’s how I remember it; I was 26 at the time. The alternative version ‘the bowler’s Holding…’ has gained currency no doubt because Holding was a fast bowler and Willey a batsman who bowled. I have found one site which remembers it correctly: www.thecustard.tv/thecrumble/thecrumble_36.html - a silly site that seems to specialise in such matters - Rothorpe 22:56, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I forgot: it seems to have been at the Oval in 1976 - Rothorpe 23:03, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

The non run out
According to Cricinfo, the umpires at the match in Scarborough were David Constant and Arthur Jepson http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1970S/1976/WI_IN_ENG/WI_ENG_PRT_ODI1_26AUG1976.html Alley and Fagg umpired the following match at Lords, but Knott was not captain. The site does not provide a match review so am unable to confirm whihc match the incident occurred. Incidentally, Knott was run out in both —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tichridley (talk • contribs) 11:33, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I've fixed that. The Wisden report confirms it was the Scarborough match. --Jpeeling (talk) 10:40, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Was Holding really a 400m runner?
The article says he ran 400m but it is uncited. I read once that in fact the 400m was another person with the same name. Can we get a cite so this one way or the other? Adpete (talk) 07:00, 7 May 2012 (UTC)


 * OK, that took about 5 minutes:


 * Michael Holding is quick to stress that he was never an athlete. "That is a fallacy. People keep bringing it up and I keep telling them that it's not the case," he says over the phone from London.


 * I'm removing it from the article.... Adpete (talk) 07:06, 7 May 2012 (UTC)