Talk:Minivan/Archive 1

Comments
What defines a minivan as being a minivan? Enthusiasts of both the Volkswagon Van and the Corvair 95 Van claim that Crysler's claims of having invented the minivan are false, since both brands had vans that they feel fit the definition back in the 1960s. Since there's no actual definition here of what is a minivan vs. any other type of van, we're unclear as to whether or not that claim has merit and should be addressed in this article.--216.198.159.38 5 July 2005 19:37 (UTC)

List some are MPVs
In the list wouldnt it be better to choose typical US-style minivans rather than European style MPVs? Billlion 00:18, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I agree - a "minivan" is the same as the British "people carrier." The MPV is very similar, but subtly different. Nandesuka 15:16, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I agree, there ought to be distinction between the US minivan and the european MPV. There also ought to be a distinction between the car-based minivans (the original Caravan and most current minivans) and the original, truck-based minivans from Chevy and Ford.

The key innovation of the original Chrysler minivan was its use of a car-based uni-body design.

Why doesn't the VW count as a minivan? It's based on a car, and it's the right size. The article says the VW is too big, but a caravan is WAY bigger in exterior dimensions than a VW bus, isn't it?

VW Bus is loosely based on a car in terms of engines and some interior parts, but it was designed entirely from a blank sheed of paper. In Germany it counts as a van, and is not sold by the vw car-showrooms.

I would like there to be a section discussing the term MPV and its history. Currently, this is a jumble flitting from the US term to the European one.74.94.150.197 (talk) 16:41, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Article revamp
Jeffreyhermann has revamped the article, rewriting almost every word without any discussion. I'm sure many of the original sections can be kept, and others may be merged with his. But the current version has many gaps and mistakes, just as well as the eariler version. Please help me to merge both versions and write a better article. -- NaBUru38 18:48, 25 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I have just merged both revisions, rewrote the introductory paragraph and added two missing sections: Characteristics and Segments. Now, this article spanns all sizes and distinguishes them; and also describes what is a minivan/multi-purpose vehicles/etc, with descriptions of design features, drivetrain and seat architecture, and the kind. My intention is not to "crush" the article, but to improve it; both versions were very complete but also very different, so I tried to merge the best of them. Perhaps the "public image" section should be completely written, possibly with a better point of view and references to "non-US markets" (sorry, I've just read Jennifer Government ;), or more pictures of models of different segments. Please, let's discuss the article's layout and content before any other major overhauls. -- NaBUru38 02:38, 24 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Jeffreyhermann has removed the following two paragraphs written by me:


 * "In other languages, the terms that describe minivans are loaned or derived from Engilsh. In some cases, they are completely different from English terms. In German, Minivan refers to a mini MPV, while Kompaktvan means compact MPV, Mikrovan describes tall hatchbacks simliar in size to city cars (like the Hyundai Atos and Daewoo Matiz), and Großraumlimousine has the same meaning as large MPV. The French and Spanish languages have their own words for minivans, monospace and monovolumen respectively; minivan sizes are also defined by words like "mini", "compact" and "large".


 * [...] Minivans are usually between 1600 and 1800 mm (or between 65 and 70 in) tall, which is around 200 mm (8 in) taller than a sedan, hatchback or a station wagon. The engine is mounted very close to the front edge of the car, and its elements are grouped higher to minimize front overhang length. Seats are also located higher, in a way that passengers seat more upright and leave more room for the legs; some people find this seating position uncomfortable and prefer lower automobiles."


 * While I'm sure you can heavily edit them to improve precision and verfiability, I do think much of the information should be included in the article, especially the description of a minivan itself in contrast to other car types. -- NaBUru38 18:27, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Chevy Tavera
I never understood that how tavera looks like minibus which in your article, it has engine bonnet, monocoque chassis and it almost looks like Isuzu Trooper which is an SUV.some one explain how can u compare with minibus.

"Minivan" is used in Britain, *but*
...not (often) for this type of car, because it often refers - sometimes as two words - to the actual van version of the Mini. 81.159.58.43 23:29, 8 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I have *never* heard minivan used to describe an MPV in Britain other than in a North American context. Most people would just look at you blankly if you used it in this way. Older people use it exclusively to refer to the Mini van variant, and some younger people use it to refer to commercial vans derived from small cars such as the Ford Fiesta or Opel Corsa.


 * The article still has a very Detroit centric perspecitve despite valiant attempts to make it more gobally inclusive. --80.176.142.11 (talk) 16:19, 29 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I can confirm that the term "minivan", when used in the UK always refers to a small commercial vehicle (van), and never to an MPV (passenger vehicle, of any size). The nearest UK equivalent would be "minibus". While I am not deeply concerned about it, this article is simply wrong to a UK reader. FredV (talk) 00:19, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Hal Sperlich
Shouldn't this article include mention of Hal Sperlich in the history section? He's often credited as being the 'father of the minivan' — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.108.51.11 (talk) 14:14, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

cleanup
This article is very US-centic, I'm not in a position to add a more global view (don't care too much about cars), but I'm sure there are editors out there who can make this a much better article. Markb (talk) 19:23, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Merge
There has been some question about the encyclopedic nature of the Mini MPV and Compact MPV articles, and a suggestion they be deleted. A merge seems more appropriate - they do appear to be rather minor variations on this main article. SilkTork 22:42, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Compact MPV might can be keep as a smaller size of MPV.(Compact MPV =still able to configure to 6 or 7 seat without using their cargo space). Among the Compact MPV are Honda Stream, Kia Carens, Opel Zafira, Toyota Wish. However for Mini MPV it should be merge into Leisure activity vehicle(LAV) or Subcompact car.


 * A mini MPV and a compact MPV are in short minivans of the B-segment (subcompact car/supermini) and C-segment (compact car/small family car) respectively. A compact MPV can be a five, six or seven-seater and a mini MPV is either a four or a five-seater. Leisure activity vehicles are very different from mini MPVs; the first are boxy and the second more "bond together".


 * I don't find it's a good idea to spread the information. Over 200 and 300 articles link to them, and the minivan article is too too long and confusing to find secitions there. It tends to focus on large MPVs and smaller models are ignored or rejected as minivans. Compact MPV and Mini MPV articles can be clearly improved but I think they should be kept. -- 190.64.48.113 01:33, 1 July 2007 (UTC)


 * If an MPV isn't mini or compact, then it's not an MPV: it's a People Carrier. Why else would the Telegraph lambast MPVs as CPCs? "Large MPV" is a nonsense term in anything resembling British English. So don't merge, but sort the blessed titles out! 82.36.26.70 23:47, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Delete Recall section?
I question the need for the information contained in the recall section. An article on the generic idea of the minivan could have a section pointing out shortcomings of the general design concept but it does not seem to me that references to indefinite problems with individual manufacturers or models has a place in this discussion.Es330td (talk) 13:19, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Fiat 600 Multipla
The history section jumps from the 30's to the 60's missing out the Multipla which is arguably a good example of an early MPV based on a car. could someone slot something in there?(Morcus (talk) 22:25, 17 July 2008 (UTC))

Public image
Other than the link to the soccer mom article, there is no verifiable content in this section. I'm not sure about the reputation for poor performance and maneuverability compared to other vehicles (do minivans perform and handle worse than SUVs ?). Personal insurance rates for minivans in North America tend to be significantly lower than for other vehicles, so it would seem that the insurance industry does not agree than minivan drivers tend to be the poorest drivers.Freeinfo (talk) 08:30, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, deleting these two unsupported comments--69.156.119.189 (talk) 00:35, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Millimeters?
What's with all the measurements in millimeters in this article? Is that something peculiar to car measurements? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pepijn Schmitz (talk • contribs) 16:12, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Millimetres are the standard international unit of measure for cars (And infact anything technical). The SI unit for distance is the metre which is two big to use as a measurement for cars without going in to 3 dp anyway so we use the Milli suffix so that we don't need to use decimals.(86.31.184.151 (talk) 02:41, 7 January 2009 (UTC))

68.170.233.82 (talk) 03:21, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Massive gallery
Is this really necessary? --Sable232 (talk) 17:13, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The useless fanboy pictures are now gone. The link to the Commons provides readers with access to many more pictures of minivans. CZmarlin (talk) 13:33, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

New class of van
I noticed that the Chevrolet Astro article classifies the Astro and Safari as minivans, and so does the Ford Aerostar article. Since the Astro/Safari and Aerostar are larger than other minivans from that time period and they were also offered in cargo van versions, I believe they should be officially classified as mid-size vans. Therefore, they will be slotted between minivans (most of which are people haulers) and full-size vans (most of which are cargo haulers). —Reelcheeper (talk) 02:17, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Needs Rewrite
Although "minivan" isn't a common phrase in the UK, it is still used (rarely). This article focuses solely on the American market and could do with a rewrite to correct that. Thanks  J e n o v a  20 10:42, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

1914 coachbuilt A.L.F.A. not a minivan
While the 1914 A.L.F.A 40/60 HP]] with the Aerodinamica body may superficially resemble a minivan, it is no more space efficient than an ordinary saloon car of the time. All the additional space caused by the "one-box" body is above the engine, where nothing can be placed without blocking the view of the driver. Sincerely, SamBlob (talk) 02:30, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Etymology
From the OED online:

'minivan, n.

Pronunciation: Brit. /ˈmɪnɪvan/, U.S. /ˈmɪniˌvæn/ Forms: 19– mini van, 19– mini-van, 19– minivan. Also with capital initial(s). Etymology: < mini- comb. form + van n.3 A small van, esp. one for transporting goods, equipment, etc.;

(also) spec. one fitted with seats in the back for family and leisure use. The form Mini Van is a proprietary name in the United Kingdom.

1959  Daily Gleaner (Kingston, Jamaica) 24 Jan. 8/6   Routes that they do not want, or which cannot pay them at present, could be handed over even temporarily to Mini-van operators.

1960  Guardian 30 Dec. 12/1   The first of the new vehicles to be used for road patrols will be Austin Minivans.

1968  H. C. Rae Few Small Bones ii. viii. 142  Small personal items were taken by mini-van to the new flat.

1984  Financial Times 5 Jan. 13/6   The Chrysler Voyager or Dodge Caravan, a new mini-van..aimed at the car market..can be used as a conventional commercial vehicle.

1996  Economist 17 Aug. 56/3   This sector is dominated by Chrysler, and GM's new range includes only one line of minivans.'

"minivan, n.". OED Online. December 2013. Oxford University Press. 30 January 2014 .101.162.161.231 (talk) 15:16, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Merge Multi-Purpose Vehicle into Minivan
I suggest that be merged into, as the article is a WP:CFORK. It is stated in the MPV article that it is just the British term for "minivan", and we do not make separate articles based on different names in different dialects of English. -- 65.94.77.36 (talk) 04:57, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment as it is a new article (redirect converted to article in March 2014), I've also placed it up for CSD-A10 deletion as a newly created dupe. -- 65.94.77.36 (talk) 05:06, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Update the MPV article has been speedily redirected to minivan in lieu of a10-deletion by admin, so seems like this is now done? -- 65.94.77.36 (talk) 19:19, 17 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Agree For the most part, we can accomplish the same thing without unnecessary content forking.  Aside from "Characteristics", the Minivan article needs a total reconstruction, and making it less US-centric is one of those steps.  (historical accuracy is another, but that's another discussion...) -- SteveCof00  "suggestion box" 09:07, 17 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment note additional discussion at talk:Multi-Purpose Vehicle -- 65.94.77.36 (talk) 19:22, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Oppose
First of all, a post made by numerical IP user 65.94.77.36 (talk) (aren't we supposed to login in Wikipedia?)(I do not think that anyone is ever under any obligation to log in. 99.189.219.202 (talk) 13:19, 19 April 2014 (UTC)) in my user talk page about Multi-Purpose Vehicles (MPVs) article informing me that it has been given a speedy deletion notice, ...but said article was eliminated spontaneously without user participation! isn't Wikipedia policy for articles to be reviewed and then deleted by an administrator at least 7 days after nomination of speedy deletion, hey, please give us at least several days, not several hours to put it in the coffin so as to get viewer participation!

Here are the reasons why the article should remain in place:

Reason one:

Worldwide, minivans are called Multi-Purpose Vehicles (MPVs), the term Minivan is only used in North America (United States, Canada and Mexico), so the article is being regionalistic, and does not represent a worldwide view of the subject.

Reason two:

Multi-purpose vehicles worldwide are divided more or less into 3 categories:
 * Mini MPVs
 * Compact MPVs and
 * Large MPVs / minivans in North America

Would you call in the USA a Mini MPV a “minivan”, no sir, would you call a Compact MPV a minivan, not likely!

Reason three:

England, Scotland, Wales, both Irelands, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa plus around 375 million people who use English as a second language and more than 750 million people who use English as a third language use the term Multi-Purpose Vehicle.

So my conclusion is that Minivan article is being bias, Wikipedia, to be encyclopedic must strive for a neutral point of view (NPOV).

And for the above-mentioned reasons, Multi-Purpose Vehicle is legitimate and should remain a separate article. — Moebiusuibeom-en (talk) 17:22, 17 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Responses


 * Comment the person who handled the speedy deletion request was, an administrator, by redirecting the MPV article to this article. -- 65.94.77.36 (talk) 19:19, 17 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Reply it sounds as if you want to rename "minivan" to MPV, that is not done by created a WP:CFORK, instead you lodge a WP:RM move request to rename minivan to MPV. -- 65.94.77.36 (talk) 19:21, 17 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Your "compact MPV" example is called a mini-van. There are small minivans (ie. Chrysler Town and Country, or Mazda 5), short-wheelbase minivans (ie. Dodge Caravan or Chevy Astro) and long-wheelbase minivans (ie. Plymouth Grand Voyager, Honda Odyssey), and large mini-vans; -- 65.94.77.36 (talk) 19:31, 17 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Comments to Responses
 * ...it sounds as if you want to rename "minivan" to MPV,
 * Incorrect, for clarity and a worldwide view of the subject, MPV (as well as Minivan) should be retained, as explained above, it covers vehicles that are not called Minivans in USA, Minivan is an American phenomenon, in Europe and the rest of the world, when you talk Minivan it refers to the large American style versions.


 * Your "compact MPV" example is called a mini-van...
 * The Only small minivan in the USA is the Mazda 5, (categorized by Mazda as a compact MPV troughout the world), Chrysler Town and Country, Dodge Caravan, Plymouth Grand Voyager and Honda Odyssey are short and long wheelbase Minivans, they are NOT "small minivans" or compact MPVs, which are usually about a foot shorter and narrower. The Chevy Astro was a rear-wheel drive mid-sized passenger van. — Moebiusuibeom-en (talk) 21:33, 17 April 2014 (UTC)