Talk:Moscow/Archive 3

Sister cities
Does Moscow have sister cities? London or... New York... or.. ?

-G —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.117.158.83 (talk) 18:30, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

About a list of sister cities. Russian Wiki says that Madrid, London, LA, Tehran, Dusseldorf, Almaty (Kazakhstan) and Nikolaev (Ukraine) are sister cities of Moscow too. -- Sith Marauder 03:50, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Copyrighted Photos
Many photos in this article are copyrighted. Please try to use free images for Wikipedia articles, instead of copyrighted images. An article on a major city like Moscow should not need to use any copyrighted images. --Mamin27 02:38, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Some of the copyrighted photos: 100px 100px 100px 100px 100px 100px

How would you imagine a non-copyrighted image of a building being constructed?--Nixer 21:57, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
 * You don't need it for Moscow. It's not fair-use to put a copyrighted picture of a building that is unnecessary for the Moscow article. Maybe it's fair-use in the specific building article, but not in the Moscow article. An article like Moscow should not depend on copyrighted photos. --Mamin27 07:10, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
 * You wrongly understand fair use.--Planemo 20:08, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Proper Russian spellings
I understand the temptation to insert foreign (i.e., English) spellings into an article about Russian, but I have learned from my studies in Wikipedia that this is not acceptable. For example, over on the Franz Josef Strauss article, the following editors—

Gryffindor

Haukur Þorgeirsson

C.Löser

Edinborgarstefan

Schubbay

Darkone

Sicherlich

Angr

Reinhard

Stern

Denniss

Carbidfischer

made it abundantly clear that using an incorrect spelling, simply because it is the "normal" English translation, is just wrong. We need to stick to correct spellings of proper names. These editors have been around a lot longer than me, and most of them are European, so we need to listen to them. They know better than English speakers. 65.80.244.202 19:17, 1 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I assumed good faith yesterday and simply warned not to do this again. But you are continuing, which means that you are vandalizing the page to prove a point. TSO1D 19:21, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Deleting the image of Federation Tower
I suspect the image is fully valid. It is a fair-use image from a press-kit and it cannot be replaced because it is the architect's view of the project and any other drowings imitating the building will be inaccurate. Anyway we should provide some images of how the architects plan the IBC will look like. To those who deleted the image: please explain your position.--Dojarca 09:59, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Deleted Links
I added links to the waytorussia.net guide to Moscow (http://www.waytorussia.net/Moscow/Guide.html) in General and Russia Today TV (http://www.russiatoday.ru/test/) in Media and was told they were deleted because they were "inappropriate". Any reason why? I understand Russia Today might be considered biased because it's state-owned. At the same time it has some interesting stuff and it doesn't hurt to see a different perspective. At any rate, NTV (which has a link) is essentially state-owned as well. As for waytorussia.net, that site has more information than my Russian Lonely Planet guide does. So what's the deal? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Globe traveller (talk • contribs) 08:14, 13 March 2007 (UTC).

History Section; 2nd paragraph; last line
"The Russian capital, which had wandered from Kiev to Vladimir, came to rest in this city by the end of his reign, and Moscow became the capital of an empire that would eventually encompass all of present-day Russia and parts of other lands."

This line needs work but I don't know enough Russian history to make the changes myself. Russian capitals don't "wander." Did the capital move from Kiev to Vladimir? Is Vladimir a person or a city?

I believe the line should read this way: "The Russian capital was moved under Vladimir's reign from Kiev to Moscow. The city became the capital of an empire that would eventually encompass all of present-day Russia and parts of other lands."Ryanpm4545 22:18, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Vladimir is a city in this context.--Dojarca 00:39, 7 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you. I'll clean up the line a little Ryanpm4545 16:17, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Change of reference
The 11th reference ("tallest free-standing land structure in the world and today remains the world's second-tallest") points to a newspaper article that gives only collateral information. I suggest to change that link for http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0886190.html, that gives information about: towers, heights, date of construction, etc. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 163.117.139.225 (talk) 09:10, 8 May 2007 (UTC). --163.117.139.225 09:11, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

spelling
I ran the article through a spell checker and found that some of it was in Commonwealth and some in US English. It appeared that US was the main spelling so I started changing over. However I found that proper names such as Bolshoi Theatre, Cathedral of Christ the Saviour (Moscow) and "... Soviet State Committee of Defence and the General Staff of the Red Army..." wer all using Commonwealth. Rather than have two types of spelling I changed them all to be Commenwealth. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 00:31, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * In the climate section of this article it says, "but summary 1-2 weeks from may to september temperatures are higher than 30 °C (86 °F)". I have never seen "summary" used like that before. Is it a spelling mistake and should have perhaps read, "but sometimes..." or maybe it was mistranslated and should perhaps instead be, "but normally..."?

maneges
I'm not sure how this fits in the article. Near the start of the sports section it says "...besides eight football and eleven light athletics maneges...". A "manege" is according to my dictionary "A school for teaching horsemanship, and for training horses". So the sentence seems to be saying that in Moscow there are "eleven light athletics horse training/horsmanship schools", is that correnct? CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 00:31, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

400 BC ??
I have removed the following unreferenced fragment:
 * However, the most important fact was, that all Finno-Ugrian and Tatar-Turkic languages used the same word, despite its meaning, of Moskova. From this it can be calculated that Moskova existed at least from c.400 BC.

This is not an established fact but most probably a marginal theory or even original research Alex Bakharev 05:41, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Pronunciations
I'm concerned by these pronunciations listed, especially for American English. Perhaps the pronunciation to which I've been exposed is related to my region (Fort Worth/Dallas metroplex, northwestern Texas), but use of the diphthong [aʊ] is unimaginable. Upon polling some friends (for untampered data, of course), the prevalent pronunciations as heard by the people in this region are [ˈmɑs.koʊw] or [mɑs.kaʊw] (approximately rhyming with 'cow'), where the second has no audible distinction in accentuation. The key fact is that both terminate in either a voiceless labiovelar consonant or a reduced secondary vowel. I suspect that this data is not severely affected by my location in the U.S. since most television programs use a standard broadcast dialect. If there is a regional variation, my instinct tells me that the first I listed is the version used in snootier (or faux British) usage, and the second more familiar to the locals. 12.147.134.239 05:09, 29 May 2007 (UTC) (Ub3rm4th)


 * Well I'm from Australia and aside from the way I've heard Americans pronounce it on TV, I mostly hear it pronounced "Moss-co". Not to get all "snooty", as you put it, but the British tend to announce words correctly...which makes sense since their their language and all. "Moss-cow" never really sounded right imho, though really, I would think that the Russians would be ones who know how to pronounce it properly! 58.106.145.149 (talk) 10:54, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 'Moskva' is a contemporary pronunciation of the city name in Russian language. It was called ‘Moskov’ or ‘Grad Moscov’ in the Middle Ages. The old style pronunciation has moved to the foreign languages and hadn’t been changed.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.193.245.15 (talk) 10:08, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Too Big Head for Russia?
It is interesting to compare some population figures of Moscow. In 1237 it was far less than 5.000 inhabitants. In 1750 about 150.000. In 1850 the population had doubled to 300.000. Much larger absolute growth was difficult before the advent of the railways made possible greatly increased supplies of food and raw material outside the natural surrounding Volga Oka region. In 1913 the population was 1.635.000 inhabitants. Now, in 2007 about 14.000.000 inhabitants ( both legal and illegal population). In the case of emergency, if the food delivery collapses this number of population is the first to suffer from food shortage which leads to hungry riots and uncontrolled flood of refuges of hungry people to surrounding areas. The most suitable population for this size of population in European Russia is about 5.000.000 inhabitants. Even more worster is the location of St.Petersburg, the surrounding area can by natural means only supply a city of less than 2.000.000 inhabitants.

JN
 * Funny but how many people can support London's area?--Dojarca 03:14, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Agree, London area is also too big concentration of population in the British Isles. I take here one example of Western source in which reads:

It is easier to understand the significance of the Oka-Volga region if we realize that it is similar in size than former Jugoslavia, and was a separate country in the early days of Russian history. Long after the forests to the north, the steppe in the south, and the lands of Siberia had come under Russian sovereigny it remained the essential Russia. Roumania is a little smaller in size and population. The British Isles has a similar area (although the population is 2.5 times as large). The Oka-Volga region, however, has more population than the three Scandinavian countries (Denmark, Norway, and Sweden) together, more than in former Jugoslavia, more than Canada. It occupies little more than 1 per cent. of the former Soviet Union, yet it supports nearly 10 per cent. of the population and produces between 20-30 per cent. of its total industrial output. It contains some of the most highly industrialized areas with very high density of urban population. Today some 30 towns have each more than 50.000 inhabitants. In most districts, the percentage of town-dwellers is 50 or more. The percentage is especially high in the centre, in the Moscow, Vladimir, and Nizhnij Novgorod regions, and to the north of Ivanovo industrial area. This is not due to any abundance of natural resources, for this respect the Oka-Volga region was one of the poorest in the former Soviet Union. Its rise to to eminence has been almost entirely the result of its central positition in relation to the zones of climate, soils, and natural vegetation of the Russian Plain and to the inland waterways. Although there still remains more forest than in most countries in Western Europe, the Oka-Volga region - with 20 to 30 per cent. of arable land - presents more cultivated landscape than any other part of the forest zone in Russian Federation. On the other hand, there is not the same detailed variety of the landscape that is found in France or the South of England. From a high bluff on the bank of river one may gaze across seemingly limitless plains that stretch to the horizon. The view looking east from the hills south-west of Moscow, or the bluffs overlooking the junction of the Oka with the Volga is particularly melancholy and monotonous on a winter day when the sky is grey and the land is shrouded in snow.

Journeys across the Oka-Volga plains are similar in lenght than to those across England. The straight-line distance from Moscow to Nizhnij Novgodod is about the same as from London to Penzance. From Riazan in the south to Kostroma in the north the distance is approximately equal to that from London to Newcastle. The Kliazma and the Moscow rivers are similar in many respects to the Thames. The 130 kilometre journey along the new canal from Moscow to Volga is about the same as along the Thames between London and Oxford, but this canal can take ships up to 3.35 metre in draught. Passengers making the two-days journey farther north to Rybinsk used travel in shallow-draught 60 cm vessels, similar to the pleasure steamers on the Thames. But the distance along this one small stretch of Volga is about the same as the entire lenght of Thames. The river voyage from Tver down the Volga to Nizhnij Novgorod is more than 800 kilometres.

Regards JN

Moscow Metro and Automobiles
Maybe these details which is not generally known in Russia are worth of mentioning in Moscow History section:

1912: The bulk of automobiles imported to Russia cames from France, Germany, and Italy. Russia presents a very great and difficult market for automobiles. Long distances, inadequate means of communication, insuffient tramway lines, etc. make the motor car a necessity in Russia more than anywhere else. There is scarcely another city than contains so large a percentage of ownwers of carriages and horses than Moscow and St.Petersburg, each housing more than half a million horses, which goes to show the great number of men needing their own conveyances; yet the automobile is making very little headway there. Paris, with a population of 3.000.000, has 18.000 automobiles; Moscow, with 1.635.000 inhabitants has only 720 registered automobiles. All streets are full of horse manure which must daily be carried away. The corresponding number of automobiles in St.Petersburg is 1.540 and in Caucasus 700, mostly in Tiflis, Baku, Tuapse and Poti. 1913: An interdepartmential commission is to be appointed ny the Ministey of Ways and Communications which is to study, with the help of representantives of the Moscow Regency, the question of an underground or other electric metropolitan railway in Moscow, after the type of Berlin or Paris. Numerous applications for the concession, chiefly foreign, i.e. non- Russian, have already been received for completion of the underground railway by 1920.

The Department of Railways has discussed a project for construction of an electric suburban tramway 72.4 versts long, from Moscow to Troitsko-Sergievsk. The cost of the undertaking is estimated at 8.700.000 roubles and it is proposed to form a company to carry out the work.

1914: By 1 January 1914 permission was granted by the Government for the construction of new railway lines:

- Private Moscow - Odintsov Electric Railway, Section Moscow - Odintsov (Alexandrovskaja) 21 versts.

- Private Moscow - Podolsk Electric Railway, Sections Moscow - Podolsk 55 versts, and Moscow - Obiralovka 18 versts.

JN
 * With that in mind, what are the Moscow Traffic Police called? Same as Militia? Arkady Renko 21:07, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Arkady Renko

"With that in mind, what are the Moscow Traffic Police called? Same as Militia?"

It calls in Russian "Государственная инспекция безопасности дорожного движения" ("Gosudarstvennaya inspektsiya bezopasnosti dorojnogo dvijeniya") (abbreviation - "ГИБДД" ("GIBDD") ) - in English - "State inspectorate of safety of road traffic" ("SISRT"). And it so refers to not only in Moscow, it so refers to across all Russia. -- Sith Marauder 12:52, 21 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Spacebo. Arkady Renko 08:24, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Education -- Independent University of Moscow
The list of educational institutes seems to be missing the Independent University of Moscow, which is an important school of mathematics. 142.162.84.120 03:37, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

There are problems with this page in the Safari browser. At the bottom of the page under "External Links" there is text showing "(Russian") and "(English)" obscuring the text underneath it. This doesn't show in Firefox. This is the first time I have seen problems in Safari. Webmaster, please make Wikipedia browser agnostic. Adawson13 16:49, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

!!EXTREMELY LOW UTILITY COSTS!!!
Whoever wrote this, never paid utilities in moscow. I'll try and get some of my parents receipts, but one thing is certain--"extremely low utility costs" is a huge misrepresentation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.230.2.44 (talk) 02:05, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I've removed the whole statement. Moscow is expensive both for locals and expats. There are no discounts for locals if you are renting an apartment. Utility costs can be lower if compared to Europe, but there's absolutely no value in this statement for the overall article.--Stardancer (talk) 07:11, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Unusable
I have not taken a look at the article for more than a year and, actually, I know not whether to rejoice or grieve at its current sorry state. The "history" section opens with a bunch of unqualified original research about the fabulous "Mosca" tribe. The entire "architecture" section is about Stalin; it opens with the following information: "The Patriarch of Moscow, whose residence is the Danilov Monastery, serves as the head of the Russian Orthodox Church. Moscow also hosted the 1980 Summer Olympics." Very appropriate introduction to the city's architecture, indeed. In this "reformed" state, the page is unusable. --Ghirla-трёп- 09:55, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Skyscrapers
Will the new skyscrapers being built in Moscow be visible when looking at the kremlin? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.49.197.7 (talk) 09:14, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

10% Muslim?
The article cites an unreliable source in regards to religion. Among other things, the said source believes that the population of Russia amounts to 147 million, and that Moscow lies in the centre of Eurasia. One can easily deduce that the number of Muslims is considerably lower by looking at the ethnic data, which is reliable. Russians (84.83%), Ukrainians (2.44%), Poles (1.90%) and Armenians (1.2%), all of which are almost exclusively Christian or Atheist, cover over 90% of the population. And these are just four ethnic groups. By the way, the figures might belong to the Russian Federation as a whole, not to Moscow. Though in this case the Buddhists are strangely ignored. --Humanophage 08:36, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The number of Poles has been exarragated by somebody. Factually there is only 0.04% of Poles in Moscow. I've corrected it according the census data. Some other numbers may also be incorrect.--Dojarca 08:50, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I've also removed the emphasized statedment about 1,5 muslims and 100,00 chechens living in the city. This data is available in the list and additionally mentioning it is a political thing.--Stardancer (talk) 07:02, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

There is a also a large Jewish community in Moscow. A fact not mentioned in the article.--142.33.185.2 (talk) 21:02, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Moskva - gradual de-anglicisation of Moscow
I like the process of returning the original names: Peking -> Beijing, Bombay -> Mumbai, Kishinev -> Chişinău, Marseilles -> Marseille, etc. The name of the Russian capital is not hard to pronounce for an English speaker - it's Moskva (Москва) [mʌskˈva], the last syllable is stressed. It matches the name of the Moskva river, which is so called in English. I am Russian and I am surprised it hasn't happened yet. By no means, I am suggesting to change the English name now but to make the idea popular and to teach the English to say Moskva. It is now common to see Moskva in the airports, on maps and reference materials along with the name Moscow.

--Atitarev (talk) 00:05, 17 January 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Atitarev (talk • contribs) 23:59, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

About "Location of Moscow in Europe
why is Russia is same color with Europe in the map and not Turkey? I think and for most of the people Turkey is more in Europe than Russia?

Bilal


 * Because Russia on Eurasia. Central Region in Europe 83.167.98.19 (talk) 08:38, 21 February 2008 (UTC)


 * A brilliant comment, 83.167.98.19. It is never too late to study some geography;)Traditionally the peninsula of Asia Minor (where most part of Turkey is situated) is considered to be a part of Asia. But you can see that the European part of the country (I mean Turkey) is the same colour with Europe. The western part of Russia to the Urals is considered to be a part of Europe. However it's not right that the borders of Russia coincides with the borders of Europe as it is depicted on the map (territories to the north of the Caucasus), but this is a controversial point. --V-VA (talk) 23:16, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Note that the European part of Kazakhstan also shown in grey. This is incorrect.--Certh (talk) 04:55, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
 * "I think and for most of the people Turkey is more in Europe than Russia?" - I laughed pretty hard at that. Sorry. --217.172.29.4 (talk) 09:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * By the way, it should be better replaced with location of Moscow in Russia. It's capital of Russia, not of Europe.--Dojarca (talk) 07:26, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

You are wrong. For most people in Europe, Turkey is LESS European than Russia, obviously. In fact, Russia is the biggest country of Europe by extension and Moscow the biggest European city. A third of Europe is composed of Slavs (Orthodox like the Russians or Catholic like the Poles) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.147.235.25 (talk) 06:02, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Repeated information
The following appears in both the history and government sections of the article:

Moscow, like with any national capital, is also the host of all the foreign embassies and diplomats representing a multitude of nations in Russia. Moscow is designated as one of only two Federal cities of Russia (the other one being Saint Petersburg). Among the 85 federal subjects of Russia, Moscow represents the most populated one and the smallest one in terms of area. Lastly, Moscow is located within the central economic region, one of twelve regions within Russia with similar economic goals. The entire city of Moscow is headed by one mayor (Yuriy Luzhkov). It is divided into ten administrative okrugs and 123 districts. Nine of the ten administrative districts, except the City of Zelenograd (number 1 on the map), are located within City of Moscow main boundaries. All administrative okrugs and districts have their own coats of arms, flags, and elected head officials. Additionally, most districts have their own cable television, computer network, and official newspaper. In addition to the districts, there are Territorial Units with Special Status, or territories. These usually include areas with small or no permanent populations, such as the case with the All-Russia Exhibition Centre, the Botanical Garden, large parks, and industrial zones. In recent years, some territories have been merged with different districts. There are no ethnic-specific regions in Moscow, as in the Chinatowns that exist in some North American and East Asian cities. And although districts are not designated by income, as with most cities, those areas that are closer to the city centre, metro stations or green zones are considered more prestigious. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.166.72.100 (talk) 17:46, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Gay Culture Not Mentioned
Moscow and St. Petersburg are the two centers for gay life in Russia. I hope mention of this is added and some other relevant information can also be added to the demographics section. QuirkyAndSuch (talk) 08:43, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * If you have citations/references to act as proof, then by all means add this information yourself.  A Prodigy   ~In Pursuit of Perfection ~ 21:58, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Edits by Eden87
User Eden87 recently removed all modern images of Moscow and replaced them with images of churches and historical demolished buildings. I think this move unappropriate. This article is intended to present balanced image of modern Moscow, not only Moscow's churches or historical sites. He also added some remarks saying that the buildings were destroyed by presumably evil Moscow officials in order to build luxury appartments. This in probably to push his POV on Yuri Luzhkov (he also added accusations in destroying historical buildings in the Yuri Luzhkov article).--Dojarca (talk) 12:51, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Moscow is in Russia or is Russia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.221.69.82 (talk) 02:07, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

wikify
I removed the tag. I feel the article no longer needs to be wikified, however the article could probably still use some cleanup. If you disagree feel free to re-add the tag or leave me a message. Bvlax2005 (talk) 21:47, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, yes, there are internal wikilinks, but the internal wikilinks are mostly trivial (akin to dictionary definitions) and not specific. This should be improved. Colchicum (talk) 22:00, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Population
The total population of Moscow, including both legal residents and illegals is 15,000,000:

This should be in the infobox. Right it only says 10,000,000, which is wrong and out of date. --SergeiXXX (talk) 22:25, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Legalisation of immigrants is absolutely necessary as the U.S. and Spain have done. That will increase the Social Security base of the nation as more people will pay taxes. And it will give a more clear picture of the real demographic situation in the Russian Federation. Probably population has not fallen as much as other data estimates. Spain legalised three million immigrants and the U.S. twelve million.

Images
What's with all the images? What's more I've previously deleted the gallery section but it seems to have been re-added. The images cluster the page up too much and make the arts page take too long to load. Thanks,  Aaroncrick (Tassie Boy talk) 05:51, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

The gallery
I think we shall not delete the gallery unless the most notable images are placed in the article proper.--Dojarca 10:07, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Tell that to Featured Article Objectors! It is not normal for an encyclopedic article to have a gallery of pictures. Please do not put the gallary back. --Hirakawacho 20:03, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Most articles about cities have galleries including such as New York, Beijing, Tokyo, Shanghai. Please do not impose double standards here.--Dojarca 21:22, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Dojarca Click here Featured_article_candidates/Moscow. Until you are willing to explain to the objectors you position I am afraid I have no choice but to listen to the objectors. So please tell them, not me. If it is featured it will be on the main page. --Hirakawacho 23:06, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
 * None of the four articles you noted are featured. There may be a few city articles with galleries, but this is not a place for showcasing pictures of arbitrary places in Moscow. If you want a gallery of Moscow photos, we have the Wikimedia Commons page for that. --  tariq abjotu  17:55, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Bottom left is a Swissotel Hotel, not the Moscow International House of Music (that is located nearby, though) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.143.44.132 (talk) 04:04, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Dubious
Russia does not make statistics for murders only. Russia publish only total sum of murders and unsuccessful attempts with no division. Therefore this number is very dubious and most probably contain wrong figure. More than that - is it really necessary to have 11 years old stats? 2008 figures (sum for murders and attempts) are published on mos.ru Elk Salmon (talk) 08:05, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Security dealing with crime
There should be stuff about how Moscow's security forces deal with the high crime rates if at all. I just can't find any info on Moscow secuity.

Hi. I spent four days in Moscow (March 17, 2007 to March 20, 2007) and found the city to be quite safe, despite all the articles I had read on the internet that warned about high crime rates as well as racial violence dealing with skin-head and neo-nazi gangs. While in Moscow I did not run into any gangs of skin-heads/neo-nazis at all. I was particularly worried inittially since I am from Mexico and though I would be an easy target for those racist groups. Like I said, however, I did not see any of those gangs in Moscow, so that was comforting. The only thing I have to add with regards to safety is that I am very pleased to see that Moscow is not quite at the high crime rates of western cities such as Chicago, Houston, Mexico City, etc. I was a little dissapointed with the russian's cold character that seemed rude to western standards, however, one has just to understand their culture I guess. One last thing, you MUST learn russian before you go to Russia. It is not like other countries in which you find people that speak some english. Even the few russians that speak english expect you to know russian. So long.66.68.254.13 01:01, 24 March 2007 (UTC)David66.68.254.13 01:01, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm glad you had such a great time in Moscow. I've been living here for two years and also haven't experienced anything worse (knock on wood) than a little rudeness on the metro and some poor restaurant service (anyone who's been here may know what I'm talking about). But for anyone new traveling to Moscow, please note that skin-heads and other such groups are rare but do exist, and one should always be cautious in a big city, especially in a foreign one.

For me, Moscow native (living in Msk fo 27 years) crime section looks completely ridiculous. --Varnav (talk) 13:03, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Crime Section
I've undone user:76.189.210.252 previous edit. They wanted to remove the crime section as they said it "totally irrelevant you cant post such specific events)" ... What does anyone else think? A city page should cover all aspects - both good and bad...  It seemed to be well referenced to me, and the person who added it had a user name and had made contributions before, unlike the reverter..  But I'm open to suggestions!  --Tomhannen 09:03, 7 April 2007 (UTC)


 * And should we add specific crime events that happened in New York City, or Los Angeles? Adding a crime section is fine, but making it limited to one specific event does not meet wikipedia's standards.

-That guy
 * The best thing to do would be to move the contents of this section to Crime in Moscow and link to it from the "see also" section of this article. When/if crime in Moscow grows, it can be summarized, and that summary can be placed into the Moscow article as a separate section.  The way the section is now it really shouldn't be included.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 19:18, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed - this sounds like a good way to go - I'll have a go when I get the chance. --Tomhannen 21:34, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

The crime section is completely wrong - it's better not to have it at all than to have one that is now. I'm Moscow native living there for 27 years. --Varnav (talk) 13:10, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Population
Probably there are 10,4 million official registered inhabitants and 13,7 million total population includng illegal migrants.--Dojarca 05:36, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but we can't tell for sure, and there are no references. --Varnav (talk) 13:12, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

One of american.
In Moscow? Let`s go to russian.

In russian language: "Один американец, вдруг, непойми с чего вдруг решивший, что русские поедут в америку работать на его малый бизнес. Первый раз в жизни увидел стопку однодолларовых купюр и понял - америкосы живут в более тяжёлых условиях, чем мы, считающие, что и жизнь - не в радость." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.41.32.119 (talk) 00:53, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * What on earth does that have to do with Moscow? --158.143.147.136 (talk) 12:17, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

any songs about Moscow?
List of songs about Moscow Thanks.Civic Cat (talk) 18:54, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Street Children?
Shouldn't we mention the number of street children in Moscow? This is a serious subject being ignored, I think. I'm reading everywhere that there are at least 10,000 children living on the streets in Moscow. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.11.25.80 (talk) 15:42, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Dead links
Please, before editors mark external links as "dead links", at least spend a few seconds looking for a new link. It took Google less than a second to find the new Committee for Tourism of Moscow City Government website. Thank you very much! &mdash;  Paine's   Climax   19:38, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

really need the section public restrooms?
Uncited, useless, silly? --Ioscius (talk) 11:06, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
 * It is necessary to have this section, becouse it is difficult to find restrooms in Moscow. The resrooms are designated by Russian letters, and not by the international symbols.
 * When I arrived to Moscow the first time, it was a real problem. The Russians are very constraining. They avoid to speak and write about the toilets, and it is consequently difficult for foreing visitor to learn their location.
 * Sincerely, Stella Vesper Stella Vesper (talk) 13:06, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I am sorry to hear about your difficulties, but Wikipedia is not a travel guide, and since a section about public restrooms most certainly falls under that category, its removal was appropriate. Please, do not re-add.  Thank you.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 17:27, January 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Ezhiki. --Ioscius (talk) 15:03, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

'English'
Toilets are one thing, but the standard of English in this article needs to be improved. For example see the Feral dogs section.--220.101.28.25 (talk) 08:35, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Population mess
The infobox gives two population figures 4 million apart. I assume one is the metro area. This issue is a nightmare on Wikipedia. City articles are full of inflated metro figures misrepresented as city populations. Luwilt (talk) 03:36, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
 * The city population is what it says right now. The 'metropolitan area' or 'aglomeration' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_metropolitan_area) as we call it in Russia, has about 15,000,000 in total (on Russian page it says 'between 15 and 17 million, I think it is because they do not know if illegal immigrants must be counted along with the population). This area includes city of Moscow itself, and also towns Balashikha, Korolyov, Krasnogorsk, Khimki, Mytishchi, Zelenograd, Reutov, Zheleznodorozhny, Podolsk, Lubertsy, and some others. I tried to edit that into the info box, but it doesn't work, I don't know why.--SergeiXXX (talk) 19:52, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Because "pop_metro" and "pop_urban" are not valid parameters. "Metropolitan area population" number is something that really needs explanation (as your write-up above well attests); and the only place where proper explanation can be provided is in the article's body, not in the infobox.  The infobox accommodates the numbers which are easy to understand and verify; "metro population" is definitely neither.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); March 31, 2010; 20:50 (UTC)

Stalinodar / Сталинодар
Should "Stalinodar" redirect here? If yes, must some content relating to this name be added to this article? According to the Russian language Wikipedia article on Stalinodar ...

"Stalinodar" was a new name for Moscow suggested by Nikolai Yezhov in 1938. But Stalin rejected the idea. After World War Two the question of renaming Moscow in Stalin's honour was being considered again, but Stalin again rejected it. After Stalin's death this question has not been addressed, and "Stalinodar" never appeared on the map of Russia or the Soviet Union.

... but I'm using Google Translate. Can others, especially those who can actually speak Russian, provide their views please? User:KpufferfishUser talk:Kpufferfish•Special:Contributions/Kpufferfish 13:22, 27 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Insignificant idea of Ezhov's. He said it, but it never went anywhere, then he was executed,a nd it was all forgotten. Completely meaningless now, I wouldn't bother putting it in the article. --SergeiXXX (talk) 00:39, 15 May 2010 (UTC)


 * OK:)User:KpufferfishUser talk:Kpufferfish•Special:Contributions/Kpufferfish 05:49, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

From Москва to Moscow
I'm writing this on discussion because I couldn't find it anywhere on Wiki, nor on the Net. Does anyone know how and when the English name for the city became as it is?

-- PJonDevelopment (talk) 02:00, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

It's simply an anglicised version of the German name for the city, which is Moskau. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.162.97.85 (talk) 13:25, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Pronunciation
There is a large debate about the pronunciation, but I'm pretty sure it was settled as /ˈmɒskaʊ/. But, either way, I think we should source this, as it is contentious. — trlkly 03:24, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Update crime
The last number of victims of crime in Moscow are from 1998, isn't it time to update? Someone who have newer numbers? Think it's wrong to almost "hang out" Moscow as a city that have a much high crimerate, when the city today is the total opposite. --217.208.14.96 (talk) 00:22, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

I've deleted the section. Why? Let's look at it:

"auto theft... dramatically increased during the early 1990s."

So did car ownership.

"Pick-pocketing is frequent in Moscow, as well as burglary from vehicles."

No evidence is given for this.

"Robbers in the city tend to pose as police officers"

Or this.

"For the year of 1998, Moscow had a murder rate of 18.1 killings per 100,000 residents"

As the poster above points out, these figures are very old.

If there is to be a crime section, it should be based on recent facts and statistics, not stereotype and hearsay. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.77.13.26 (talk) 16:02, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Kyuah
tên gọi của rùa ngoan hiền =)) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.182.112.108 (talk) 15:12, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Too many deadlink tags on the page
I ran AWB today and it shows 18 deadlink tags on this article. I don't know enough about Moscow to try to find new links to replace the dead citations, but the article needs to be cleaned up. Aristophanes68 (talk) 04:39, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Moscow Rings
circular roads was built around the Kremlin walls. A few years ago established a new additional ring called the "third ring". פארוק (talk) 21:39, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Fact box on the right
Seems to be tampered with. Dagbre (talk) 20:05, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Shopping needs to be edited
Seems like the Shopping section of the Moscow article appears to require a little clean up and a bit more authority than what it currently has. The information should be at least verifiable instead of sensational. 18:10, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Area expansion
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/14/moscow-double-size-overcrowding

Needs to be included --SergeiXXX (talk) 16:37, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

2002 Census
Just what was the number for the 2002 census?

The top infobox and historical population box say 10,126,424. The demographics section says 10,382,754. Adding up the ethnic makeup gives 10 249 566.Qwertzy (talk) 01:17, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
 * The 2002 Census population of Moscow proper (i.e., the city itself) is 10,126,424. The population of 10,382,754 is for Moscow and other inhabited localities in its jurisdiction (i.e., for the federal subject). Since the rest of the population data are for the federal subject, I've changed the values to 10.3 mil throughout. The ethnic makeup does not add up to this because the list is incomplete.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); September 19, 2011; 13:31 (UTC)

Population should be updated
Moscow is now the fifth-largest city by population, see List of cities proper by population. Regards.-- GoP T C N 13:10, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I've added the estimate.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); March 5, 2012; 14:58 (UTC)

Most populous cities in Europe
The claim that Moscow is the most populous city in europe is incorrect: Istanbul has a population of 13.4 million — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.217.9.41 (talk) 10:13, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Istanbul is neither European nor Asian, so it does not count. Moscow is in Europe. Regards.-- GoP T C N 21:27, 21 June 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm in agreement with the anonymous user. GoP, if we were to use your standards, than Istanbul would not be part of any list whatsoever; it's not Asia, it's not Europe. Fact is: it's both. The fact that even the article of List of metropolitan areas in Europe is including Istanbul says enough, I reckon. However, I have found additional sources, and added them. Also, if we were to use your standards, then Cyprus and Armenia (officially Asia), Malta and Sicily (officially Africa) and Iceland (partly North-America) weren't even to be included in anything European, however, they have sociopolitical and/or geographical connections with Europe, and are considered as European by the European Union and/or the United Nations (as do both Russia and Turkey). Kind regards, 「Robster1983」 ☞ Life's short, talk fast ☜ 16:09, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
 * As Istanbul is both it is only fifty-fifty, while Moscow is fully in Europe. If there was no Bosporus splitting the city in two halves then I would reconsider. Regards.--Kürbis (✔) 16:40, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
 * How about seeing where the majority of the population of Istanbul lies (in Europe or Asia) and use that as a criterion on whether to include it as the largest city in Europe? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:01, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Serious mistake
I found a serious mistake. In the section "Geography and climate" # "Climate", it says,


 * Indented line

2011 has become on eof tIn contrast,...

What does "eof tIn" mean? Besides, if "eof tIn" is corrected, the resulting complette sentence will likely be ungrammatical. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Solomonfromfinland (talk • contribs) 07:02, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Wow, that's been there a while; thanks for catching it! It seems that an editor started to write (or copy/paste) a sentence about 2011 but did not finish it. I've restored the paragraph to a state that existed prior to that particular edit. Thanks again!—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); September 4, 2012; 14:04 (UTC)

The new regions
A few months ago the city annexed a new areas in the south-west of the city and it can be seen clearly in the map in the article. so why is it not mentioned here ? . פארוק (talk) 15:55, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
 * It is. See the last paragraph of the "Administrative divisions" section.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); September 4, 2012; 16:01 (UTC)
 * The new ares are breaking the shape of Road Rings that exist around the city since the days of Stalin. maybe you know why the new areas of the city (section 11 + section 12) and the form it encompasses the city as it has always been acceptable? . according to English media reports that I calledin in Zone 11 planned to serve as the future: Russia's Silicon with the National University of Science and Technology of Russia. section 12 is probably an area for the new government offices Campus. maybe it is a new city that planned to built close to the old city. פארוק (talk) 20:56, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The main reasons were to unload Moscow's core areas, but implementation specifics are still pretty much in the planning stage. If you can search in Russian, there are plenty of news and sources about various plans and proposals, although your description above summarizes them fairly accurately.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); September 5, 2012; 21:01 (UTC)
 * How can i read Russian if i don't speak the language ?. too bad there is no information in English, it is very interesting. פארוק (talk) 12:37, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, there's always google translate :) As for the information in English, in my experience things like this seldom make it into English-language sources.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); September 6, 2012; 13:27 (UTC)

Is not the new city extension of 2.550 square kilometers instead of 2.510? I believe it is. The initial idea conceived an extension of 1440 sq. km., then 1600 sq. km. and, eventually, 1448 ha. being the later the final extension approved. This would lead us to 2.550 sq km. Indeed, a number of websites gather this value as the city extension but it is also true that other websites inform 2.510 sq. km. (wrongfully, to my understanding). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.83.228.11 (talk) 21:28, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 * A source would be helpful. The one we currently have says 2,510, and unless you can find an equally reliable source disproving that number, that's what we should use, per our policies.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); December 13, 2012; 21:39 (UTC)
 * Indeed, the link number 18, redictering to the Offical Moscow Government site, states that the current extension is of 255 thousand hectares (2.550 square kilometers). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.57.89.52 (talk • contribs)
 * Funny, it's hosted on the same website :) Perhaps it would make sense to add a note that the official sources contradict one another.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); July 10, 2013; 19:50 (UTC)

Pyramid outside Moscow & Russian Pyramids
Recently i happened to find sites containing information about Russian Pyramids. It's said that a Russian scientist,named Alexander Golod, has built around 17 artificial pyramids ,which are said to be made of fiberglass, around Russia. One of these artificial pyramids is outside of Moscow and it's said to attract a large number of tourists every year. Though i couldn't find any reference to Russian pyramids or this Russian scientist named Alexander Golod in en.Wikipedia.org. I would like to add this information to this page. I wonder if it's all right? --Fotte (talk) 12:07, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * There is an article about Golod's "power pyramids", see ru:Пирамиды Голода.--Tomcat (7) 13:48, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Coordinate error
I have find a bug in your latitude. It seems that is missing one character on the UTM field. For example: Moscow has the latitude set to 6179122 when it should be 16179122. Please check.

—164.85.6.1 (talk) 18:21, 21 November 2012 (UTC)


 * I think not. Why do you think so?  Try this converter or this one, for example. - David Biddulph (talk) 18:39, 21 November 2012 (UTC)


 * It's been a while since i wrote that, i see a direct linked has been placed, thanks. So my argument is needles, we can remove this talk section. Fotte (talk) 09:44, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

population & ethnic groups
9.93 million Russians of 11.5 million people total equals 86.3 % (not 91.65 % as claimed), or if counted from 11.5 million: 11.5 million × 91.65 % equals 10.54 million Russians (not 9.93 million). Or share of Russians is somehow calculated from a population of 10.835 million (not from 11.5 million). And the figures should be from 2010 Census, so where does the error come from? 85.217.46.40 (talk) 10:51, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Good question. It looks that while the total population as of the 2010 Census is indeed 11.5 million, the ethnic percentages were calculated based only on the population whose ethnicity was known (roughly 10.8 million people). The 91.6% figure was thus calculated as ~9.9 mil/~10.8 mil. I've added a short note to the article to make this clear. Thanks for catching this!—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); November 11, 2013; 18:27 (UTC)

The most populous city in Europe?
Moscow is not the most populous city in Europe in fact the reference in the page, it says iti is second after Istanbul. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.122.117.232 (talk) 21:39, 19 November 2013 (UTC) But half of Istambul is in Asia...--83.63.225.149 (talk) 21:10, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

Moskau = Moscow = Mosquée = Mosque = Москва́
About the origin of the name/term?

Moskau = Moscow = Mosquée = Mosque = Москва́

Temple for the Muslims? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.50.27.50 (talk) 15:22, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The city of Moskva is named after the Moskva River thousand years ago. Moskva is probably pre-Slavic Finno-Ugric name. --TarzanASG (talk) 16:23, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

"the world's most populated inland city"
It isn't clear what "inland" mean, Beijing is bigger and also doesn't have access to see. -Valodzka (talk) 16:42, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Mexico City is twice as big as Moscow and very much an inland city. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.56.203.120 (talk) 14:56, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Possible copyright problem
This article has been revised as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement. (See the investigation subpage) Earlier text must not be restored, unless it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. Diannaa (talk) 02:13, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Need correction about complete destruction in 1571 by fire
Too little data about very important year, same scarse and improbable info also presented in my russian articles and hidden even in schoolbooks, considering that there's many histocal works in Russia about that year. The info in article that Kremlin wasn't burned is debatable, because by letters from England's diplomat and politician in Moscow Jerome Horsey - the fire started from the Kremlin's main saint John cathedral with help by strong wind (russian historians agree that this description can be used as truthful - commentary in book about Horsey letters by Moscow's University). So, considering that there's historical facts that deny directly the Kremlin's safekeeping - this words need to be removed from article. Let's use the position that "city was burned completely". The most population died from fire (russian historians by numerous sources considering the approximate numbers in range of 20 to 800 thousands people dead, the summary table made by Zymin A. A.). There's need to be added additional data, which most historians agree and consider indisputable – that "tzar" flee from city, so in time of the biggest fire of 1571 there was no authority in Moscow in any form (the fact that he "flee" from city but not "evacuated" like same situation with Stalin confirmed by personal letters afterward from Crimean khan to russian tzar where he made very insulting personal words about the situation happen). Considering all above i can make edit in article but the sources are russian, which is not easy to make reference. Proposed edit is short: In 1571, the Crimean Tatars attacked and sacked Moscow, city burned, most population died in fire, tzar fled from capital. (with saving current source but adding new also) User436 (talk) 19:31, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Timeline of Moscow
What is missing from the recently created city timeline article? Please add relevant content. Contributions welcome. Thank you. -- M2545 (talk) 16:59, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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I have just added archive links to 4 one external links on Moscow. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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Largest inland city?
The article states this: "Moscow is situated on the Moskva River in the Central Federal District of European Russia, making it the world's most populated inland city." However, both Mexico City and Sao Paolo also have claims to this title. Moscow city proper is larger but I would consider that happenstance as boundary lines for cities have little meaning. JoshMahar (talk) 15:22, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

Radio in Russia: No such article
I clicked on "Radio in Russia", but there is no such link / article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.6.2.205 (talk) 17:07, 3 November 2015 (UTC)
 * It's because no one has written it yet :) (Actually, someone did last year, but it was deleted as a copyright violation). In all, if a link is red, it means there is no such article (but there should be). Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); November 3, 2015 ; 17:24 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 one external links on Moscow. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080904140532/http://realestate.msn.com:80/buying/Article_forbes.aspx?cp-documentid=8839818&GT1=35000 to http://realestate.msn.com/buying/Article_forbes.aspx?cp-documentid=8839818&GT1=35000
 * Attempted to fix sourcing for http://english.seoul.go.kr/gtk/cg/cityhall.php?pidx=6

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External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 17 one external links on Moscow. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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Muslim population
Article states that "Muslims constitute around 1.5 million, that is 14% of the population". Taking into account that Russians are 91% and assuming that all non-Russians are Muslims (which is not true) we have 107% population in the town! And then reference for this "information" makes it clear - please, never use yellow press like Der Spiegel for statistics. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.125.6.1 (talk) 10:53, 14 July 2015 (UTC)


 * "Muslim" refers to the religion of Islam, not an ethnic race. This is a common mistake, just like the way people often use the word "Jew" to describe the religion, and not the ethnicity of a people, which is also a mistake. And I don't think Der Spiegel qualifies as part of the yellow press. __209.179.22.107 (talk) 19:59, 2 March 2016 (UTC)


 * No, 129.125.6.1 has made a good point. It may be the New World, where the notion of ethnicity is heavily blurred, instead some strange notion of "race" is used, and where people generally confuse ethnicity, ancestry, race, citizenship and whatever. But it is not thus in the Old World, especially in the former USSR, where people perfectly know who they are. Muslims are not an ethnic group, of course, but ethnic Russians are not Muslims, while certain ethnic groups are traditionally considered (by themselves in the first place) as Muslims. So one part of the modern ethnic Russians are either atheists, agnostics or some sort of theists, another part are "casual" Christians, but only a very small minority, I'd say no more than 1-3%, are neophytes of some other religions (like various Western Protestant groups, Buddhists, Hindus and Muslims).


 * So when 129.125.6.1 mentioned the numbers from the Russian census, where "Russians" designates the ethnic group and not the citizens of the Russian Federation (as the American anonymous 209.179.22.107 must have thought, I assume), (s)he rightfully implied that if 91% of Moscow are ethnic Russians, so there cannot be more than 9% Muslims. But here arises our problem: (1) there is no 100%-reliable statistics about religion adherence in Russia; (2) the population of Moscow is very dynamic, there is a constant inflow and outflow of people from around the world, especially from populous Muslim Central Asia; (3) the number of the Muslim immigrant population in Moscow may be equally inflated and overestimated by Muslim clerics, as well as underestimated by the Russian statistical services, most probably this number is not constant but may rise and fall during any period. So Spiegel is certainly hardly a reliable statistical source here (though they backed their number by citing some unknown Muslim clerics), but it can still be here if a proper attribution is given.--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 12:27, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

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inconsistent claim of 20 million residents
The first sentence currently states "20 million residents within the city limits and 16.8 million within the urban area" while the population box shows 12,197,596 or 14,300,000 within city limits depending on the definition of resident. The 20-million figure does not appear to have any reference. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.52.51.32 (talk) 11:57, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

First or second largest Europe' city
''Moscow, Russia. Moscow is the capital city of Russia and is the second most populated city in Europe. The city has the largest number of billionaire residents in the world. (Image Source: remotewhiteboard)''http://www.hongkiat.com/blog/juggling-multiple-freelance-clients/

In article -- 1st largest city. Which of one is correct? And how about 1|2nd largest -- Paris or? Ah, London --<font color=#075791 face="Courier New">Albedo <font color=#002001 face="Verdana">@  17:18, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

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Whoever painted that picture of Moscow from 19th century is wrong.
Moscow Kremlin walls were painted red only in 20th century(under Communists). It was a clear(non painted) white stone before. Hence the old Russian saying "Moskva Belokamennaya" which translates to white stone Moscow. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 156.59.57.63 (talk) 01:11, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

what about archeological value of old Moscow? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bringingvalue (talk • contribs) 11:33, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

Etymology
Possible that nobody ever suggested that the etymology of Moskov come from the Persian: muska = temple? Given, en plus, of the characteristic architecture of the Kremlin — Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.99.159.34 (talk) 16:47, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

Moscow etimology
The article says Finno-ugric etimology of the word Moscva is not probable! Let's read the wiki article Moscow Oblast: "Up to the 9–10th centuries, the Moskva River basin and adjacent lands were inhabited by Finno-Ugric peoples.". So this territory was FULL Finno-ugric. Only this fact must make people think about a Finno-ugric origin. But ok, let's go further: let's see a map of the area in the 9th century: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volga_Finns#/media/File:Muromian-map.png And now take a look at the names of these Finno-ugric tribes, who lived exactly here: Moksha (!), Mari, Mordvin, Murom, Merya. I think Moksha and Moscva are so close that we can say it is the best and closest to the solution. But the article states it is not possible. Ok for me, you know what you want to believe in....178.48.177.1 (talk) 12:10, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
 * OR/SYNTH is a no-no.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); October 27, 2016 ; 13:46 (UTC)
 * You guys forgot to erase the Finno-Ugric etymology of Moscow from the History of Moscow article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.193.237.228 (talk) 10:10, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

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Moscow Metro
At time of writing, Moscow Metro is discussed in two subsections of the article - 2.7, part of History and 10.4, part of Transportation. Probably they should be merged into Transportation section? George6996 15:20, 17 April 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by George6996 (talk • contribs)
 * Feel free to add reliable sources before to change it, cheers.AlfaRocket (talk) 12:45, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

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