Talk:Moskovskij Komsomolets

Official English title
"Moskovskij Komsomolets" is the official English title that used on the first page: scan. Do not add nonsense, please. — Al3xil ✉  09:21, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Moskovskij Komsomolets. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131007092909/http://www.de-tally.ru/advertising/press/business/mk/ to http://www.de-tally.ru/advertising/press/business/mk/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 00:20, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 14 July 2018

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

Moved. See a rough consensus to rename this article back to its stable title since 2010. We have the support of the nom and one other editor, another editor who suggests a different name, and good rebuttals from another editor's talk page; however, I see no further response to the nom's research that was posted 14 July, and there is no overt objection/opposition to moving back to the long-term title. Have a Great Day and Happy Publishing! (nac by page mover)  Paine Ellsworth   put'r there  01:32, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Moskovskiy Komsomolets → Moskovskij Komsomolets – undiscussed move (WP:RMUM)--Russian Rocky (talk) 23:16, 14 July 2018 (UTC) --Relisting. Dekimasu よ! 20:44, 24 July 2018 (UTC) --Relisting. — usernamekiran (talk)   19:30, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
 * The following discussion was copied from this talk page (offtopic removed):

The newspaper uses "Moskovskij Komsomolets" as its official name in English, see Moskovskij Komsomolets frontpage.jpg--Russian Rocky (talk) 17:55, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
 * What is the basis for using what smb uses - in their website address line!? They are not an English-language newspaper. Your link above is totally irrelevant. What is it? See my ref in the article.Axxxion (talk) 17:07, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
 * So the frontpage of Moskovskij Komsomolets is totally irrelevant, while TASS (not even the MK owner) is totally relevant. Really?--Russian Rocky (talk) 21:14, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
 * But what makes you think that this is meant as an English-language equivalent of their title?Axxxion (talk) 23:02, 13 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Russian Rocky, as noted by Axxxion already, the Latin script doesn't state what language it is purportedly in, so why are you assuming that it's English? Wikipedia uses WP:RUROM for transliteration purposes. If you had issues with the page move, you should have started a thread on the article's talk page (it certainly is notable for being underused and, given that the first thread there written by a long-blocked editor who started the name changing, is where you came up with the idea that this was some form of official English nomenclature). It's not a simple question of whether TASS, Sputnik, etc. use 'Moskovsky Kdomsomelets', although that is what they seem to use in their translations in articles about this media outlet. There is no standing WP:COMMONNAME, so Google searches will yield approximately the same number of results, so WP:COMMONSENSE would suggest Wikipedia's transliteration system as the best title. Personally, I think this thread should be moved to the relevant talk page (if Axxxion has no objections) in order that this issue be given a proper airing for uninvolved editors to understand what the arguments are, and to find consensus. All that's being accomplished in this manner is for unnecessarily acerbic accusations to be tossed into the fray. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 06:38, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

Iryna Harpy, an unsystematic English-language transliteration is acceptable if it's a common English-language form of the name: "However, if there is a common English-language form of the name, then use it, even if it is unsystematic (as with Tchaikovsky and Chiang Kai-shek)." (WP:TRANSLITERATE). I have also searched, and there is no evidence that only "Moskovskiy Komsomolets" is acceptable in English. Other transliterations ("Moskovsky Komsomolets", "Moskovskii Komsomolets" or "Moskovski Komsomolets") occur in English-language texts as well. A link to TASS isn't really enough for the renaming. If Axxxion believe that English-language news agencies of Russia are reliable, I recommend Sputnik: "The Moskovskij Komsomolets, a Moscow-based daily newspaper" (sputniknews.com, 04.03.2018)

Besides that, there are enough of English-language reliable sources related to media that use "Moskovskij Komsomolets", such as books and research papers. It's not just my "original research": So it's clear that English-language reliable sources uses "Moskovskij Komsomolets" as well and for a long time. Taking into account that all of the above-mentioned transliteration variants are quite common in English-language sources, including "Moskovskij Komsomolets", I consider that its official international title is more preferable for the article's name due to brand recognition. Moskovskij Komsomolets journalists work abroad under this international name and the newspaper uses this transliteration as its name for decades (2002 frontpage, 2010 frontpage, 2018 frontpage, see also on Google Books). Especially considering that the newspaper has a long history (founded in 1919), that's where such a transliteration took its root from. And no, the name isn't in German, how Axxxion assumes. MK hasn't been distributed in Germany.
 * Who Owns the World's Media? (2016) by Eli M. Noam. Oxford University Press, p. 280
 * Journalism and the NSA Revelations (2017) by Risto Kunelius, Heikki Heikkilä, Adrienne Russell and Dmitry Yagodin. I.B.Tauris, p. 31
 * Media and Open Societies (2000) by J. J. van Cuilenburg and Richard Wurff. Transaction Publishers, p. 217
 * Comparative Media Systems (2010) by Boguslawa Dobek-Ostrowska. Central European University Press, p. 49
 * Geopolitical Visions in Russian Media: Report to USEUCOM Strategic Multilayer Analysis (2016) by Robert Hinck et al. Texas A&M University, p. 11
 * "A Friend Who Was Supposed to Lose: How Donald Trump Was Portrayed in the Russian Media?" (2017) by Anastasia and Anton Kazun. Higher School of Economics, Political Science Series, p. 16
 * The American Slavic and East European Review (1956) Volume XV p. 499

I haven't noticed new arguments or facts from Axxxion who is pushing WP:RUROM. It's really not a case to forcibly push it without thorough research. Russian Rocky (talk) 23:16, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

Note: Announcement of this discussion appears at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Russia. Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 02:28, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Move to MK (newspaper). jamacfarlane (talk) 00:06, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Support per nominator's detailed supporting evidence. The entire matter centers upon a single font used in the transliteration of the newspaper's name — "j", as used by the newspaper, itself, as a lowercase part of its main header, or "y", as suggested by WP:RUROM. Perhaps WikiProject members will provide an expanded perspective.   Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 02:28, 25 July 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.