Talk:Names of the Romani people

Sanskritic etymologies
in the light of Matras (2004) and Kenrick (2004), it appears clear that the most likely origin of Rom is Dom, which in turn likely is connected to the Domba. The attempts of creating Sanskritic etymologies seems entirely confined to Romani activist attempts to construct a more glorious origin narrative of an ancestry of warriors rather than outcaste musicians. As always, ideological preconceptions are a poor guide to etymology. Of course, an etymological connection of Rom and Dom doesn't mean that the Romani "are" Dom (let alone Domba) any more than the Britons are Priteni -- it's just the origin of the name.

It stands to reason, even if the proto-Romanies of AD 1000 were ex-Kshatriyas, that once they reached the Middle East they would be called Dom, after the itinerant Indian populations we know had already been in place for several centuries. If this was the case, Dom would be an exonym in origin, but it is of course very common for exonyms to be accepted for use as endonyms, just as it is very common for generic words for "man" acquiring the sense of "husband" (from use with possessives, "her man" etc.)

Matras also notes that the claimed connection of Sinti to Sindhi has no substance whatsoever. --dab (𒁳) 10:57, 23 January 2009 (UTC)


 * As I said earlier, while the "Dom" theory for the origin of "Rom" is the most probable, this doesn't mean that there aren't alternatives. To put forward in the article that the other theories are just made up, is OR, unless you have a source to cite that.
 * The connection between "Sinti" and "Sindhi" its also unprovable, since "Sinti" is a neologism that doesn't go further than the 18 century. AKoan (talk) 09:39, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

The article doesn't claim "they are just made up", it puts them in proper perspective as minority views following Kochanowski (1968) and Rishi (1983). What I would like to see is a source actually defending such a suggestion linguistically, as opposed to sources merely stating such etymologies "have been suggested [by others, not the present author]". I would especially be interested in the postulated sound laws apparently yielding Romani řo- (/ʀo/, not ro- /ro/) from Sanskrit ra-. --dab (𒁳) 15:02, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

WR Rishi
collecting information on Rishi in order to establish whether a WR Rishi article might be adequate.


 * WR = Weer Rajendra
 * died 2002, aged 87
 * received the Soviet Land Nehru Award for his  “India and Russia — Linguistic and Cultural Affinity”
 * worked at the embassy of India in Moscow from 1950 to 1952, as an interpreter 1955 to 1960
 * in 1971 Attache in the High Commission of India, London
 * after retiring in the 1970s went on to found the "Indian Institute of Romani Studies"

What the hell is this "Soviet Land Nehru Award"? Google shows lots of Indian recipients, but nobody seems to know who was issuing it and for what. --dab (𒁳) 15:18, 25 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Soviet Land was the USSR's equivalent of SPAN magazine - essentially, a publication that told us how great the Soviet Union was. A couple of months after Nehru died, they created a fund to give annual awards to Indians who translated Russian / Soviet classics into Indian languages, or produced literary, journalistic or creative pieces which promoted the values Nehru stood for.  There were various levels of prizes, the top levels included a decent sum of money and a trip to the USSR as a state guest, and they also had prizes for children.  The prize died with Soviet Land.  It carried a lot of prestige amongst a certain section of the Indian intelligentsia. -- Arvind (talk) 22:42, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

interesting, we should have an article on this. --dab (𒁳) 15:31, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

My respect
for this article. It's really good. RomanyChaj-रोमानीछाय (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:36, 28 March 2009 (UTC).
 * very helpful article on a confusing but important topic.Mtsmallwood (talk) 11:50, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Tsigani, cigány
Hello. Just wanted to say that in Germany the term "Zigeuner" isn't used much anymore. In public (like TV, radio, newspapers, ...) it's seen as not politically correct. We now say "Sinti und Roma". Almost the only times it's used in public, it's in xenophobic contexts. As far as I know it's the same in several other European countries. Maybe you should do some research about that and add another paragraph. Here's the German article about the term: de:Zigeuner. Sorry for my bad English. Best regards --StefanWesthoff (talk) 23:27, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, I can confirm that "Zigeuner" is an extremely offensive slur in German. All of the variations on Tsinganoi are offensive, because they mean untouchable (whereas "Gypsy" is not really offensive in the English language.). Walterego (talk) 17:05, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Romani people which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RM bot 06:15, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Why does the "Use in English law" use a different spelling than the rest of the article?
Why does the "Use in English law" use a different spelling than the rest of the article?71.109.164.250 (talk) 01:02, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Macedonian usage
Is the usage in the Macedonian language relevant to the English language article about the Roma? Should each language have its own sections? I deleted it and somebody reversed it. - ArnoldPlaton (talk) 18:03, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

In the etymology of Gypsy
In the section of etymology of the term Gypsy it cites Frasier, the Television show and with just the year and not even the episode number is just not acceptable. Especially because in the line it makes claim that their cultural narrative is based around harboring the baby Jesus. --Nordoisthebest (talk) 01:57, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Slur
I would be interested if anyone could provide any reference for the claim that Gypsy "has been tainted by its use as a racial slur and a pejorative connoting illegality and irregularity". To describe someone as a gypsy is a matter of fact, not a slur, and I don't agree that the word has any connotations of illegality or "irregularity" (whatever that means)10:43, 1 July 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Royalcourtier (talk • contribs)

"Zott"
Why is there a link to an article entitled "Zott" (about a supposed Arabic term for Gypsies) but the term "Zott" is nowhere mentioned in this article? 173.89.236.187 (talk) 01:49, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

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"according to the few who study the Romani people—the word has been tainted by its use as a racial slur and a pejorative connotation implying illegality and irregularity"
Not all of the sources cited say this. Some happily use the term Gypsy and take pains to justify themselves. --Eldomtom2 (talk) 23:37, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I'm deeply concerned about this section. It seems to be written from a non-British perspective? I understand gypsy to be considered offensive, and its most common translations in certain European languages certainly can be. But in British English, gypsy is a neutral term and is the preferred self-designation for most English Romany gypsies. Boynamedsue (talk) 18:54, 12 February 2021 (UTC)


 * This is written from a NON Roma perspective, because MOSTLY claims and other things about roma people is written by NON-Roma itself. For me and my clan we considered us as çingene (Gypsy). Since the 1990's the name Roman/Romanlar is used oficially in turish, but enough from us called us itself https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%BCrkiye_%C3%87ingeneleri
 * We have no problem with the name gypsy in english, but other roma groups maybe have it.
 * For us not slure, for other is slure. Rom baro (talk) 14:29, 2 January 2023 (UTC)