Talk:National Blue Ribbon Schools Program

Untitled
I deleted the line about Brumfield Elementary School because there are a number of schools that were named Blue Ribbon Schools for a second time prior to Brumfield Elementary. For example, Chandler High School in Arizona was so honored in '82-'83 and '86-'87. A quick read of the list shows Moreau Catholic in Hayward, California and Castro Valley are at least two others to be named to the list twice prior to Brumfield's second selection in '91-'92.

ref removal
This reference,, #4, was a wikimirror.-- killing sparrows  (chirp!) 03:43, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Criticism
I agree 100% with the criticism. Unfortunately, too many educational ranking systems don't end up by measuring outputs, but by measuring inputs as if they were outputs. Thus ranking systems (not necessarily applicable here) that have included computers per pupil, percentage attending four-year colleges, etc., are not measuring how much the district has improved its students. However, I question the over-reliance on a single source from a rather partisan organization to represent the "other" side of the award, without including any coverage of the issue from reliable and verifiable sources. Alansohn 19:00, 7 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Fear not. I have found several other criticisms of the program, including a very in-depth analysis of its past and present failings by the Brookings Institute and another which points out the practice of raising apparent student achievement by increasing the number of students identified as 'special needs', thus removing them from the statistical base. I will be adding to this section over the next few days. You are free, of course, to cite any independent, reliable and reputable sources that have praised the program. I have yet to find any.-- killing sparrows  (chirp!) 19:55, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't appreciate the criticism here. It notes that Kirkpatrick does not like the criteria because it does not take into account the socioeconomic status of the students. So what? Why should it? Where is the criticism? That the criteria do not take into account socioeconomic status is just a statement of fact, not an argument against the program. It makes Kirkpatrick seem less than reputable, but then I followed the citation and read a bunch of his articles, and he seems to be pretty reasonable. I also found that his criticism is implicit in the following statement: "Thus a more accurate indication of a good school would be one that adjusts for such factors and identifies those in which students do better than would normally be expected, based on their backgrounds." This statement is now included in the article. I also rewrote it to be more brief. By the way, I teach at a Blue Ribbon School, and learning and thinking are never "inevitable." Redhookesb 18:46, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Selection criteria, statistics, claims, etc.
I have read the selection criteria on the DOE website and it is a little more complex than portrayed here. Public schools are selected by the State's education authority and then submit an application, criteria for selection vary from state to state. Private, DOD and BIA schools are nominated through their respective processes. If someone would like to rewrite this section to be more accurate, that would be great.

Also, the statistics quoted would be more meaningful if the percentage of schools applying vs schools receiving the award could be found. If all that apply are awarded or a small percentage of those applying are awarded, the exclusivity and prestige of the award changes dramatically.

The references for the first paragraph include the following statement, "...It is considered the highest honor a school can achieve." but it is not attributed in the article to any person. Is there any actual source for this statement outside of the reporter writing the article? To state as the second ref does (apparently, there is no way to access the actual article), that this is the highest honor the DOE can bestow, I'll buy that, but the first ref seems to state that 'someone' or some independent entity has decided this.-- killing sparrows  (chirp!) 21:48, 7 May 2007 (UTC)


 * It's also changed over the years. Up until 2003, schools nominated themselves.  The article has been updated to reflect that.--RadioFan (talk) 20:48, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Praise
What is the difficulty in finding praise? (I guess I will have to try finding it myself.) One place to start looking is in the history of the selection criteria. I have heard that under President Clinton, the standards were not linked to measurable outcomes but rather to a school's plan for improvement. Under President Bush, the standards are linked to measurable outcomes. Many would see that as an improvement. Even Kirkpatrick might agree. He wrote in the article mentioned under "Criticisms" that "This should not be viewed as an objection to a properly evaluated Blue Ribbon program. Public (and nonpublic) schools whose students succeed well beyond what would be expected of them, with due consideration for their socioeconomic status, should be recognized." The phrase "succeed well beyond what is expected" seems to imply some sort of objective, measurable standard. Redhookesb 18:55, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

List?
I would like to know all schools who have recived this award, list please. If not in this article than in its own. ``` —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.81.53.142 (talk) 03:29, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The external links at the bottom of the article include two .pdf files listing all of the school's recognized. I have created User:Alansohn/Blue Ribbon Schools 2003-2006, which listed schools recognized in the 2003-2006 period, and is a work in progress that may not accurately point to existing articles for schools that are spelled differently in the source file. Alansohn 03:37, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The external link is sufficient. A huge article or series of large articles listing every school that has received this recognition is not necessary.--RadioFan (talk) 18:43, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

special education/blue ribbon?
I would like to know if these awards include special needs programs. I am looking for a method, not based on socio-economics, that would rate schools on their special needs programs. It has become impossible to determine a good school to move to based on these awards programs. It is appearing as though Exemplary and Blue Ribbon rated schools have a poor track record when it comes to the education of special needs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.96.222.36 (talk) 10:01, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

"Highest honor"
The claim that this is the "highest honor" a school can receive has been removed. The statement was too broad and implied a level of prestige for the award that just doesn't enjoy. As noted above and in the article, there is criticism in the selection methodology as well as the scope of the program. over 4k schools were recognized in the first year of the program. Also one of the references in this claim failed verification (broken URL, no other indication of how it might be verified) and the other was from a single article about a school which received that award. Such a strong claim needs stronger references, preferably one that discusses the program itself. --RadioFan (talk) 18:40, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I have replaced this statement, together with a new reference. Major statements such as this should not be removed without consensus and when a ref is broke the answer is to either look for a cached version or add new references. Whatever the criticisms of the program, the statement happens to be true, and only around 1% of US schools are current 'Blue Ribbon' schools. TerriersFan (talk) 19:36, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The reference you added has the same issue, it's an article on a recipient receiving the award and reads like a press release from the school. Such broad claim would be best referenced with a source that is about the program itself.  --RadioFan (talk) 19:57, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * At the risk of WP:STICK, I added two more refs for the "highest honor" found on the Irvine High School (Irvine, California) article. The articles aren't verbatim copy of a press release, so it's a decent indication the sources given agree with it- or they are all failing to vet while they rewrite? tedder (talk) 23:59, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Blue Ribbon award as automatic criteria for AfD "Keep"
Please see Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Schools. Thanks. --Simple Boba.k.a. The Spaminator (Talk) 14:32, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 00:53, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Multiple-time winners
I have removes the five-time and four-time winners. This was based on an incorrect interpretation of the source. Individual years are listed as, for example, 1995, but a listing of 1995-96 actually means that the award was won in both 1995 and 1996. As a result there are many more schools that have won 4 or 5 times, and some that have won more than 5 times. For example, Carmel High School in Illinois won seven times (1984-85, 94-96, 01-02) and Saint Joseph's Academy in Baton Rouge has won eight times (90-91, 1994-96, 01-02, 16}. I did not look at the entire file so there may well be schools that have won even more often. Meters (talk) 18:37, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

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