Talk:Neil Armstrong/Archive 2

Wrong death date.
I saw, on Facebook, that Neil Armstrong died today. The problem is, I went on your site to look more into it, and observed that the date he died (below the day he was born) was July 10, 2013, but was different in the article, stating that it was August 25 2012. You might want to change the date he died. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.252.20.216 (talk) 00:50, 11 July 2013 (UTC)


 * It was vandalism. He died in August 2012.  Now fixed.  --   Jack of Oz   [Talk]  00:57, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Who on Earth (or on Moon) cares about the "a"?
In the section discussing this man's walk on the Moon we have two paragraphs about whether or not he uttered the syllable "a". Isn't that a little bit too much, lest I say entirely irrational? Surtsicna (talk) 20:09, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 30 July 2013
Neil's birthplace should be in Auglaize County/Washington Township rather than Wapakoneta. Thanks.

Camp49nk (talk) 15:30, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. -- SamX‧☎‧✎‧ S  15:56, 30 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Although almost all website articles on Neil show his birthplace as Wapakoneta, the article on the National Coldwar Exhibition website http://www.nationalcoldwarexhibition.org/explore/biography.cfm?name=Armstrong,%20Neil accurately describes the birthplace of Neil. The actual location is on Washington Pike in Auglaize County/Washington Township.  I can get the actual road number location on Washington Pike if you desire, and pictures of the house.  I am a distant cousin of Neil, both having ties back to Ladbergen, Germany.  In the 1960's, Neil's parents Steve and Viola played cards at our next door neighbors.  Viola visited at our home before the moon landing.  The Auglaize County Commissioners could also provide proof of Neil's actual birthplace.  Thanks again.
 * Stan Wietholter Camp49nk (talk) 18:11, 30 July 2013 (UTC)


 * The problem is that we need published sources for this - personal testimony isn't any use to us. I'll look into this further, and see if I can find anything else that might help. Clearly, if the site you link suggests we are wrong, it needs investigation. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:29, 30 July 2013 (UTC)


 * ✅ – The source provided seems reliable, and it does suggest that the article was wrong. -- SamX‧☎‧✎‧ S  18:36, 30 July 2013 (UTC)


 * From what I can figure out from Google Maps, Washington Pike is four miles or so long, and seems to run from a couple of miles east of St Mary's to a point about three miles southwest of Wapakoneta. This doesn't actually help much though, beyond confirming that he was certainly born near Wapakoneta. I'm not sure of the wisdom of taking a single source as authoritative, when it appears that others may contradict it. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:47, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, I've reworded it so that it says that he was born near Wapakoneta, which we can keep until we have further information. -- SamX‧☎‧✎‧ S  19:02, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Apparently Wapakoneta is inside Auglaize County, so we could just word it as something like "he was born in Auglaize County, near Wapakoneta", and it would be unambiguously correct. -- SamX‧☎‧✎‧ S  19:18, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅ -- SamX‧☎‧✎‧ S  19:52, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Duplication of facts
in 1978, President Jimmy Carter presented Armstrong the Congressional Space Medal of Honor in 1978. This sentence contains "in 1978" twice. I'm sorry if it sounds stupid, but Neil Armstrong is my favorite astronaut, and it would make me feel better if you deleted that second one. Thank You! Oh sorry, I forgot to mention the paragraph it's in: Paragraph 3 under Neil Armstrong.
 * I took out the first date as leaving the two awards with dates in the same place. Britmax (talk) 13:11, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Airport where Neil first took flying lessons
Remove under Early Years: Armstrong attended Blume High School and took flying lessons at the county airport. Replace with: Armstrong attended Blume High School and took flying lessons at the Wapakoneta Airport north of Wapakoneta (this airport no longer exists). Note: The county airport (Neil Armstrong Auglaize County Airport did not exist until 1967).

Camp49nk (talk) 04:12, 2 September 2013 (UTC)


 * ✅. I added a bit from the Hansen biography about Wapakoneta airfield. Thanks for the note! Binksternet (talk) 15:48, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Replacement for Armstrong family website
The Armstrong family website has not been functional since one year after Neil Armstrong's passing -- www.neilarmstronginfo.com

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.106.218.70 (talk) 06:42, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

It is linked under "External Links" on his Wikipedia article. A new Neil Armstrong Commemorative website is now available that brings together a virtual exhibit of Armstrong information and digital versions of images, documents, and 3D objects relating to his life and his time as an Aerospace Professor at the University of Cincinnati: http://www.uc.edu/armstrong. I hope this could be added under External Links.

Thanks, Ted — Preceding unsigned comment added by Theodore-baldwin (talk • contribs) 19:50, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

X-15 altitude?
I believe the altitude reference for his penultimate X-15 flight is incorrect. The X-15 Wiki entry shows his highest altitude was only 39.2 miles...not even high enough to get astronaut wings from the US government, let alone crossing the Karman Line.

Only 2 X-15 flights crossed the Karman Line...and they were both flown by a different pilot.

Armstrong and religion
What is fascinating about the story is that Armstrong did have a deeply religious experience on the moon’s surface. Former White House Counsel Charles Colson wrote in a column the details, which Armstrong has confirmed.

It seems that before they emerged from the “Eagle,” the Lunar Lander, Armstrong’s co-pilot Buzz Aldrin, pulled out a Bible, a small silver chalice, and some sacramental bread and wine.

Neil Armstrong in 2011

There on the moon, their first act was to pray and celebrate communion.

Read more: http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/on_the_front_lines_of_the_culture_wars/2011/04/did-neil-armstrong.html#ixzz2s6eBYWVq — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cyril.sitar (talk • contribs) 20:50, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Legend has it?
The article says that during an incident that "legend has it" and then goes onto tell of some type of heroic deed Armstrong may or may not have done. I thought Wikipedia values the truth, demands the truth! Maybe we can't handle the truth.

I'm going back to the Obamacare page and write a few "legend has it" about the unqualified success of that program — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.176.224.218 (talk) 15:19, 14 February 2014 (UTC)


 * I've cut the parenthetical "legend has it" bit. If it is in the book then it needs clarifying if returned to the article.
 * No comment about all that truthiness stuff :) Vsmith (talk) 16:12, 14 February 2014 (UTC)


 * It's a myth anyway: "He was 45 miles south of [the Edwards lake beds], not far enough to put him over the Rose Bowl. But he was still generally over Pasadena." Mike Klesius at airspacemag.com, characterizing the Rose Bowl thing as a "fable," citing First Man. TJRC (talk) 23:32, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 April 2014
The final line of the second paragraph in Legacy contains two errors. As of April 17, it read, "The Neil Armstrong Air and Space Museum is located in his hometown of Wapakoneta, Ohio, although it has no official ties to Armstrong, and the airport in New Knoxville where he took his first flying lessons is named for him.[161]" First, the museum is the Armstrong Air & Space Museum (see www.armstrongmuseum.org). The airport in New Knoxville is named for Neil Armstrong, but he did not take flying lessons there. It opened in 1956, after Neil Armstrong has already flown 78 missions in Korea (see http://www.neilarmstrongairport.com/about-us). Mr. Armstrong learned to fly at Port Koneta, a now-defunct airfield near Wapakoneta (see First Man, by James Hansen, available here: http://books.google.com/books?id=rMS6JFuLgx4C&pg=PA49&lpg=PA49&dq=port+koneta&source=bl&ots=f1FZLGyBkB&sig=Wtu80p4_xLxvlp4cSWeinXvDbig&hl=en&sa=X&ei=hFdPU43BNMfA0QHR4IHgBg&ved=0CEcQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=port%20koneta&f=false) The referenced article [161] from Cincinnati.com is also in error, though the Museum's name might have included "Neil" when the magazine published the article in 2007.

216.255.26.224 (talk) 04:45, 17 April 2014 (UTC)


 * I've corrected the museum name, and updated the airport information. It appears he did take flying lessons there when he was 15, and it was mainly a field.  SilkTork  ✔Tea time  16:59, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

Edits to External Links
The first link in the section is broken. It [is supposed to] links to a Wayback Machine version of website created by the Armstrong family. This link should be removed. I'd also like to add a link to the online exhibition from the University of Cincinnati Libraries that contains nearly as much information as the original family page. THis page is located at http://uc.edu/armstrong. As the page is semi-protected and I have only eight edits, I cannot edit directly. Could someone please make these changes? Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ntallman (talk • contribs) 15:33, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

Update: After editing another article, I was able to make the desired changes. Added by Ntallman (talk • contribs) 16:19, 8 May 2014 (UTC)


 * The UC site's a good add; thanks for that.


 * I think it's worth keeping a link to the subject's own website in the form it last appeared, however. Looks like it was added incorrectly (and I suspect that if I were to delve through the history that I may have been the culprit there), hence the inoperative link.  I've re-added it, ensuring that it links correctly.  I've placed it third: I think both the UC exhibit and NASA page should have higher prominence. TJRC (talk) 23:41, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

Remove the "Status: Deceased"
It is completely meaningless to have it. Neilaldenarmstrong (talk) 07:28, 26 May 2014 (UTC)


 * I see this has now been done. AndyTheGrump (talk)

Dryden Flight Research Center now Armstrong Flight Research Center
The first paragraph mentions Dryden Flight Research Center. Dryden was renamed Armstrong Flight Research Center in honor of Neil Armstrong as of March 1, 2014. This should also be reflected in the Legacy section. Reference: http://www.nasa.gov/centers/armstrong/home/

174.130.110.84 (talk) 13:37, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

"First moon walk" section
Here the word "a" is referred to as the "definite article." It should read "indefinite article."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_(grammar)#Indefinite_article

I can't edit it. Thanks.

If this is what you're referring to then we should tell NASA. Mlpearc ( open channel ) 01:12, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
 * The article says: ...Armstrong found Ford's analysis "persuasive." However, the article by Ford was published on Ford's own web site rather than in a peer-reviewed scientific journal, and linguists David Beaver and Mark Liberman wrote of their skepticism of Ford's claims on the blog Language Log. Thus, NASA's transcript continues to show the "a" in parentheses.

I'm not debating the inclusion of the word "a", merely its description as "definite article." From the cited article: "The definite article in English, for both singular and plural nouns, is the."
 * ✅. Thanks for pointing that out! —Mr. Granger (talk · contribs) 02:29, 21 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Yes, thanks for pointing that out. As the one who wrote it, I can't believe I made that mistake! JustinTime55 (talk) 21:43, 24 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Misunderstood, thank you.  Mlpearc  ( open channel ) 02:40, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 September 2014
208.108.122.236 (talk) 14:35, 24 September 2014 (UTC)


 * "This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it". AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:42, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ". Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to any article. - Arjayay (talk) 16:43, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: as you have not requested a change.

Semi-protected edit request on 5 November 2014
164.104.222.34 (talk) 21:01, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ". Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to any article. Britmax (talk) 21:07, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: as you have not requested a change.

Armstrong's Involvement with the Ecuadorian "Metal Library"
Rather than just wade into a most notable person's biography with clumsy edits, I wanted to get an opinion on the following.

I came across this tidbit of factual information regarding an expedition that Armstrong was involved with to find the Metal Library in Ecuador. The expedition took place in 1976 in the Cueva de los Tayos. I've read a number of articles indicating his involvement as expedition "figurehead". The following URL actually contains a photograph of Armstrong inside the cave system: http://www.philipcoppens.com/metal_libr.html.

This is the same Metal Library that Erich von Däniken became obsessed with in the late 1960s.

There is an existing article on Wikipedia already. Perhaps a small note could be added here. sugarfish (talk) 06:02, 4 January 2015 (UTC)


 * I think that it might be wise to find an alternative source - Philip Coppens seems to have specialised in fringe material, and accordingly might be a bit suspect for details. AndyTheGrump (talk) 06:22, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Armstrongs "Secret stash" of LM souvenirs
Just leaving this lk here for future reference, may be worth a mention:
 * "Secret stash of Moon artifacts found hidden in Neil Armstrong's closet" --220  of  Borg 07:27, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 June 2015
1930-2012 (Age 82)

He actually died at 72.

151.228.169.100 (talk) 23:02, 3 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Clearly arithmetic is not your strong point... AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:45, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Another quote controversy: "vast leap"
User:Sunflowertree has been edit warring, adding an uncited reference to a supposed controversy that Armstrong said "one vast leap for mankind" instead of "one giant leap". I just did a Google scan and found out this apparently is becoming an internet meme; some idiot created a YouTube video claiming this, which has apparently sparked some discussion on various forums. (Funny how no one else has heard "vast leap" before, in the 46 intervening years. It would be really funny if the video creator were Sunflowertree.)

We don't want to open this can of worms; YouTube is not generally considered a WP:RS, especially for this type of thing. (Any asshat can post a YouTube video.) YouTube and the internet in general has just become a more efficient way of spreading urban legends. I don't think this qualifies as a bona fide fringe theory, and it is not our business to help promote just another urban legend. JustinTime55 (talk) 15:35, 9 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Unless and until this is discussed in mainstream reliable sources, it doesn't belong in the article, end of story. Wikipedia is not a platform for the promotion of silly internet memes. AndyTheGrump (talk) 15:37, 9 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Amen, Andy! JustinTime55 (talk) 15:42, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Armstrong's Military Affiliation
The info box/overview on the right-hand side of the beginning of the article is incorrect. It lists his military affiliation as USAF when it was clearly USN.

Why do you think that? And please sign your posts (4 x ~). Britmax (talk) 16:18, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

Was "one small step" pre-prepared?
The article presently says: "Armstrong did not prepare his famous epigram in advance. In a 1983 interview with George Plimpton in Esquire Magazine, it was revealed that Armstrong 'had produced the lines on his own ... and the words were composed not on the long trip up there, as had been supposed by most of his colleagues, nor beforehand but after the actual landing of Eagle on the moon's surface.' He explained to Plimpton that 'I always knew there was a good chance of being able to return to Earth, but I thought the chances of a successful touchdown on the moon surface were about even money—fifty-fifty ... Most people don't realize how difficult the mission was. So it didn't seem to me there was much point in thinking of something to say if we'd have to abort landing.'"

This is contradicted by reports that he had written the line before he left Earth:

In light of this, I don't think the current text can stand without some mention of Dean's account that Neil had scripted the line (or at least a version of it) back on Earth (although he may not have decided that was the line he would use at that moment until later). —sroc &#x1F4AC; 11:34, 24 July 2015 (UTC)


 * ✅  is what I've come up with:  "Armstrong prepared his famous epigram on his own. In a post-flight press conference, he said that he decided on the words 'just prior to leaving the LM [lunar module].' In a 1983 interview in Esquire Magazine, Armstrong explained to George Plimpton: 'I always knew there was a good chance of being able to return to Earth, but I thought the chances of a successful touchdown on the moon surface were about even money—fifty–fifty ... Most people don't realize how difficult the mission was. So it didn't seem to me there was much point in thinking of something to say if we'd have to abort landing.' In 2012, brother Dean Armstrong claimed that Neil had shown him a note with a draft of the line months before the launch, although historian Andrew Chaikin, who had interviewed the astronaut in 1988 for his book A Man on the Moon, disputed that he had ever claimed coming up with the line spontaneously during the mission."


 * I think this better reflects the sources without giving undue weight to the brother's claim. —sroc &#x1F4AC; 12:19, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Contradiction in Nelson citation
The footnote citing Craig Nelson's book gives 2009 as the year, but the bibliography entry gives 2005, and also a UK publisher which surprises me. Can someone double-check this so it can be fixed? JustinTime55 (talk) 14:59, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

Too many commas
The first few paragraphs have too many commas; they aren't used properly. There are many phrases that are set apart by commas that are not parenthetic and are necessary to understand the sentence. Someone who knows better than I might take a look at it and edit it. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.46.176.194 (talk) 12:30, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Semi-protected edit request on 14 March 2016
On March 12, 2016, it was revealed that the United States Air Force Academy Class of 2019 had selected Neil Armstrong to become their class exemplar.

Bigblue17 (talk) 02:36, 14 March 2016 (UTC) More importantly you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 10:27, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: as you have not requested a specific change in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".

Edit request
Change the first sentence to "Neil Alden Armstrong (August 5, 1930 – August 25, 2012) was an American born astronaut and the first person to ever walk on the surface of the Moon." --Therockisinthebuilding (talk) 00:29, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

Change the fourth sentence to "After the war, Armstrong earned his bachelor's degree at Purdue University and served as a test pilot at the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics (NACA) High-Speed Flight Station, where he logged over 900 flights. Neil later completed graduate studies at the University of Southern California."
 * You might want to repost this as an edit request template. Alex33212 (talk) 02:43, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
 * ❌ This is not a serious request; the only real changes this person has asked for are:
 * change "American astronaut" to "American born astronaut"; that's an unnecessary distinction. Armstrong did not change his nationality.
 * "Neal later completed..."; the page already says "He later completed..." This violates the WP:LASTNAME MOS guideline; it is unencyclopedic tone to be chummy and familiar with Mr. Armstrong. JustinTime55 (talk) 14:41, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 April 2016
I recommend that the last paragraph in the subsection "Navy service" be relocated two sections below to the subsection "Test pilot" because this paragraph is blatantly and glaringly misplaced. It currently reads:

"As a research pilot, Armstrong served as project pilot on the F-100 Super Sabre A and C variants, F-101 Voodoo, and the Lockheed F-104A Starfighter. He also flew the Bell X-1B, Bell X-5, North American X-15, F-105 Thunderchief, F-106 Delta Dart, B-47 Stratojet, KC-135 Stratotanker, and was one of eight elite pilots involved in the paraglider research vehicle program (Paresev)."

None of the test flying described in the above paragraph was part of Neil Armstrong's active naval service. Some or much of it overlapped with his eight years in the Naval Reserve, but that's entirely incidental and in no way related to the U.S. Navy or Armstrong's service in it.

Note that this misplaced paragraph won't fit as is (i.e., without modification) in the "Text pilot" section. Someone with intimate knowledge of Neil Armstrong's career will need to rewrite so as to integrate the content. Moreover, the misplaced paragraph fails to name the B-29, which the "Test pilot" subsection recounts him flying.

This is just for your consideration. I'm not the person who can or should correct it but it definitely needs to be addressed.

Many thanks for all you do.

Textpilot22 (talk) 22:33, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template.  B E C K Y S A Y L E S  07:58, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 April 2016
The link leading from Styrofoam in the line "On July 16, 1969, Armstrong received a crescent Moon carved out of Styrofoam from the pad leader, Guenter Wendt, who described it as a key to the Moon." does not link to Styrofoam, but rather Polystyrene. Should this be changed?

Alex33212 (talk) 02:34, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format.  B E C K Y S A Y L E S  07:57, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Link moved to Styrofoam as requested. Britmax (talk) 12:16, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
 * What is not clear about it? I'd like to be able to make clearer edit requests in the future. Alex33212 (talk) 18:44, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 May 2016
The "Navy Service" section contains a statement that Armstrong "collided with a pole at a height of about 20 feet (6 m), which sliced off about three feet (1 m) of the Panther's right wing". The TV program "NOVA : First Man in the Moon" contains a recording of Armstrong which differs from this statement, Armstrong saying that he "ran through a cable, an anti-aircraft cable which knocked off about 6 or 8 feet of my right wing". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.246.201.248 (talk)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: The TV program is probably a source, but it would help if you have something that's published that we can use to make the change. — Andy W. ( talk  · ctb) 07:57, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

File:Neil Armstrong.jpg to appear as POTD soon
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Neil Armstrong.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on August 5, 2016. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2016-08-05. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 09:33, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 August 2016
He also have a partner with him and they discover something that is not in the history books. They have discover a spaceship size crater on the moon

Austin641 (talk) 20:00, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, if it is "not in the history books" in the general sense, we can't use it. So where did you find this information? Britmax (talk) 20:52, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Cannolis (talk) 00:20, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 August 2016
Please add the following as an entry under Life after Apollo:

In August of 1976, Professor Neil Armstrong put in an appearance at the Cueva de los Tayos Expedition in Ecuador, including flying to the cave and descending into it. The Expedition was initiated by Stanley Hall and involved the British Army and eight experienced cavers. Armstrong was Honorary President in the British Cave Research Association. Timallanwheeler (talk) 02:54, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
 * 1) Cueva de los Tayos


 * Question Does the source you cite verify that Armstrong was made honorary president of the BCRA? If not, do you have some other source that verifies this? I think that sentence would need a citation in order to be included; otherwise I'm okay with mentioning Armstrong's appearance at the expedition. JustinTime55 (talk) 14:01, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Answer The source states that Armstrong was "honorary president". It is not clear whether he was honorary president of the specific expedition or whether he was a president within the BCRA in general. I have submitted a request for Caving International No. 1 - "The Los Tayos Expedition". talk —Preceding undated comment added 03:11, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Done Since it's unclear what the bit about "honorary president" means, I left that out. JustinTime55 (talk) 18:35, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Answer Okay, Caving International No. 1 confirms Armstrong's visit but does not mention presidency. [[User:Timallanwheeler|

talk]] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Timallanwheeler (talk • contribs) 15:27, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Criticism of Armstrong's "one small step" quote: WP:NOT
The latter half of this sentence, presenting a grammatical criticism of Armstrong's famous quote, is problematic:


 * The broadcast did not have the "a" before "man", rendering the phrase contradictory (as man in such use is synonymous with mankind).

The problem is, Wikipedia is not a manual, guidebook, textbook, or scientific journal. This was originally added as, I believe, someone's original research (without citations), and sources recently added aren't really notable. It is an encyclopedia's job to accurately present information (what Armstrong said), but not to criticize how he said it. It doesn't matter if you can provide sources to verify the criticism, if such criticism is not a notable topic in and of itself. The commentary in italics above, I believe should be stricken.

Also, it's a matter of interpretation whether or not it's contradictory or redundant; although "small step" and "giant leap" might seem contradictory (ever heard of a paradox, which is obviously what Armstrong intended?), "for man" and "for mankind" both refer to the same thing and thus are redundant. So the criticism is really a matter of opinion and thus outside of the encyclopedia's purview.

It's almost self-evidently true that it doesn't make much sense as literally quoted; most public observers noticed the omission almost as soon as he said it (at least by the time they had a chance to think about it.) Yet I don't remember ever reading or hearing in a notable publication that anybody made a big deal of it. Notice the sources cited, two college textbooks dated 2004 and 2008. Does anyone expect to find any sources closer to 1969 to establish notability? My theory is that it's a cultural change that we're quicker to criticise the establishment nowadays. I think neutrality demands we don't buy into this. JustinTime55 (talk) 16:46, 10 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Agree - it isn't Wikipedia's job to nit-pick over words - we note the apparent error, and note Armstrongs' statements on this, which is all that is required. AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:57, 10 July 2014 (UTC)


 * "Dammit, Jim, I'm an astronaut, not an orator!" JustinTime55 (talk) 21:47, 24 July 2014 (UTC)


 * A paper came out recently in PLOS One that indicates that he did say 'a' man. http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0155975

This article in Science mag, summarizes it; 'By analyzing the duration Armstrong spoke each word, the researchers found it would have been easy for listeners to exclude the “a,” especially in a fuzzy recording, they report in PLOS ONE. And because of the astronaut’s intention to be humble, and the context of the speech, they agree that “one small step for a man” is the more probable phrase.' http://www.sciencemag.org/news/sifter/linguists-question-armstrong-s-famous-moon-landing-quote

They may be worth popping in, but I don't see any edit buttons on the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.3.237.96 (talk) 03:12, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 November 2016
I would like to include the names of several communities Neil Armstrong grew up in. Cmmarshall7 (talk) 21:48, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Further information needed: Please specify exactly what communities you wish added, and please provide WP:Reliable sources for the information. JustinTime55 (talk) 22:05, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 24 July 2017
from: He performed the first docking of two spacecraft, with pilot David Scott. to: He performed the first docking of two spacecrafts, with pilot David Scott. correcting grammar NoahRothchild (talk) 13:32, 24 July 2017 (UTC)


 * ❌ Apparently English is not your first language; that does not correct the grammar, but damages it. The grammar is correct as it is. The word "craft" is its own plural: the word "spacecraft" is plural as well as singular (similarly for aircraft, water craft, etc.) The word "crafts" is only used as a plural when used to refer to arts and crafts. JustinTime55 (talk) 18:03, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 September 2017
84.199.249.210 (talk) 08:52, 19 September 2017 (UTC) He was a hero for America
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Stating this opinion without attribution is not neutral. You also did not say where you want to add this sentence. Gulumeemee (talk) 09:35, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

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Category
How come someone removed this article from Category:Apollo 11? It most definitely belongs. (I restored said category.)--Solomonfromfinland (talk) 23:53, 23 November 2017 (UTC)


 * It was removed in, but unfortunately the editor concerned is no longer editing, so there is probably no point in asking him why. --David Biddulph (talk) 01:58, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

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"first in-flight emergency"
"This mission was aborted after Armstrong used some of his reentry control fuel to prevent a dangerous spin caused by a stuck thruster, in the first in-flight space emergency." -Quote

To say this ignores both the cutting short of the first orbital flight of John Glen, which may have been a false indication but was still treated as an actual emergency and the ending of the Mercury 9 flight of Gordon Cooper where electrical failure had disabled the automatic attitude control, the capsule atmosphere life support and the attitude indicators for the pilot and also cut short the planned mission. Using visual reference from the stars and his watch for timing the retro rocket burn Cooper returned in a seriously damaged spacecraft for a nearly perfect re-entry.

Because of these events I don't see any justification in saying this was "the first in-flight space emergency."Corumplex (talk) 18:23, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
 * While I agree the phrase is unverified by reliable source, I want to set the record straight about Glenn's Mercury flight: it was not "cut short"; it was only ever planned for three orbits. (The movie Hidden Figures is wrong when it says otherwise.) It would be just as much OR to call that incident the first in-flight emergency (in the sense of aborting the mission.) JustinTime55 (talk) 16:41, 23 January 2018 (UTC)


 * As currently written, labeling it the "first in-flight space emergency" is original research, and cannot stand. It requires the editors make their own judgment call about what constitutes an emergency, and which of the several claims qualify. That's OR in a nutshell.


 * If it cited to an authority that determined it was the first space emergency, and properly cabined the statement that it was that authority's characterization, that would be okay. There is this article on the Aviation Week blog, but I wouldn't characterize the blog entry as being an authority. I'm deleting that text. TJRC (talk) 00:26, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I agree and have no problem with the deletion. JustinTime55 (talk) 16:41, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

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Possible tweaks
Hi Hawkeye, as discussed here are some queries. As always very happy for you to ignore those where I've got wrong end of stick. I'm out of my depth re subject matter so most points here are gnomish...


 * gotten off to an early start - started early
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * The only engineer he knew (who had attended MIT) - is ambiguous
 * ✅ re-worded.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * dissuaded him from attending - tried to dissuade
 * Kept this one.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Flight training was conducted in an North American SNJ trainer, - why an?
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * On August 16, 1950, two weeks after his 20th birthday, - not 2 weeks, 'soon after'
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * an Grumman F9F Panther - an?
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * two Gold Star - no plural s?
 * ✅ And de-capped.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * He wrote and co-directed two musical as part - plural s
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * degree in Aerospace Engineering at the University of Southern California in 1970 - insert (USC)
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * had three children together - remove together
 * Why?  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * faster than the other engines - is that engine's?
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * nose-down attitude - wlink Attitude (geometry)
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * and the Lockheed F-104 Starfighter. Republic F-105 Thunderchief - is that full stop meant to be there?
 * ✅ No - changed top comma.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Boeing B-29 Superfortress. Boeing B-47 Stratojet and - ditto
 * ✅ - ditto.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * rocket plane - wlink to Rocket-powered aircraft
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Q-ball system - wlink?
 * It's a disambigation page.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * MH-96 - wlink?
 * ✅ Red-linked.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * number 3 airframe - wlink?
 * ✅ Just added "X-15"  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Smith Ranch Dry Lake - add Nevada
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Armstrong tells a different version - told
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * their flying skills did not come naturally - put in quotes?
 * Hmmm.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  10:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * and rig an arresting cable - was that a replacement for the wire just spoken of or is it chronologically skewiff and talking about prep for his landing?
 * ✅ Re-worded.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * The purpose of the mission was to practice space rendezvous - verb practise (but I've seen many USEng articles use practice as verb???)
 * ✅ Meh. Corrected.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * although they practiced a - ditto
 * ✅ ditto.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * and equipment to extend the duration of the flight. - 'on' equipment? ie practise on
 * ✅ Re-worded.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Tom Stafford - dab to Thomas P. Stafford
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * The was speculation that Armstrong - There
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * CAPCOM - first use insert Capsule Communicator (CAPCOM) with wlink?
 * Already linked.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * they learned of the deaths of Gus Grissom, Ed White and Roger Chaffee - if reader hadn't clicked on Apollo 1 in first sentence, the deaths are a mystery, maybe add 'in the Apollo 1 accident/fire or similar
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * investigation released final its report on the fire - move "final" forward
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * he was assigned Lovrell and Aldrin - Lovell
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Lovell took his place on the Apollo8 crew - space before 8
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * According Chris Kraft, a March 1969 meeting - insert 'to' after according
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Voyage to the Moon - section could do with another intro sentence or two eg goodbyes, liftoff, hours to get to Moon etc
 * None of the Apollo 11 crew suffered from space sickness, while some members of previous crews had. - move 2nd phrase to beginning?
 * Keep it as it is.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * 40 seconds worth of fuel left - apostrophe?
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * 20 seconds worth of fuel - ditto
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * 15 seconds left on - ditto
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * there was 45 to 50 seconds of - ditto
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * three 67-inch (1.7 m)-long - is the hyphen and long necessary?
 * ✅ Removed.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * and Aldrin called out, "Contact light." Armstrong shut the engine off and said, "shutdown." - give Armstrong's shutdown a cap too.
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * extra-vehicular activity (x2) - is extravehicular at wlink
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * left boot on the lunar surface at 2:56 - 02:56
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * then spoke the famous words - now famous (weren't famous at the time)
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  10:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * In 2012, brother Dean Armstrong claimed - sounds like a clergyman, insert his
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  10:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Peter Shann Ford, an Australia-based computer programmer - wlink him (and maybe computer programmer is not best description? digital speech programmer?), Australian instead of Australia-based?
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  10:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * James R. Hansen - wlink?
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  10:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Ford's own web site - remove own, website one word
 * ✅ Gazooks.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  10:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * David Beaver - wlink
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  10:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * a then estimated world population - an estimated
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * and became the second human - becoming the second
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Early on, they unveiled a plaque commemorating their flight...- more than "flight", mission? Apollo 11 says Armstrong uncovered it whilst still on ladder?
 * The source used in that article makes it clear that Aldrin was already walking on the surface when Neil unveiled the plaque.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  10:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * the extreme temperature of the Moon - insert "high" after extreme, - on the moon?
 * ✅ The trick is to visit the Moon in the early morning. Since days are 28 Earth days' long, you can spend a week and it will still be morning.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Armstrong and Aldrin discovered that, in their bulky spacesuits, they had broken the ignition switch - other article says Aldrin damaged it
 * What other article? I would need a source to change it. Source cited in Apollo 11 article does not support it.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  10:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * then continued to its rendezvous - add in orbit
 * ✅ Added.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  10:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * ARPA, but served in this position for only a year, and resigned from it and NASA as a whole in 1971 - is "as a whole" necessary?
 * ✅ No - deleted.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Purdue, because it had a small aerospace department- not clear which had small dept, Purdue or Cincinnati?
 * that he came straight into a professorship with only the USC master's degree - (USC) now added per above?
 * ✅ Yes.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * The first was in 1970, after Apollo 13, - add explosion and aborted lunar landing? link to Apollo 13?
 * ✅ Added.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * as he'd only seen it - he had
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * As he jumped off of the back - can we remove 'of'?
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * should come from people who know the Scouts - knew
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Since the early 1980s, - From
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Armstrong has been the subject of a hoax saying that - was the subject of... (Does Hansen call it a hoax or a rumor?)
 * It's not sourced to Hansen.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  10:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * A part of the confusion stems from the similarity between Armstrong's American residence in Lebanon, Ohio, and the country of Lebanon, which has a majority population of Muslims - no similarity except the name? Part of the rumor alluded to the coincidence of Armstrong living in Lebanon, Ohio which was named after the biblical Lebanon. Modern Lebanon has just over 50 per cent Muslim population.
 * Yeah.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  10:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * and died on August 25, in Cincinnati, Ohio - add age
 * Added.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  10:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Michael Collins said, of Armstrong - is that comma necessary?
 * ✅ No - deleted.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * and the Collier Trophy from the National Aeronautics Association - (pity their names don't appear on Collier article), org name has Aeronautic singular
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * and asteroid 6469 Armstrong are named in his honor. [208] - remove space before ref
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * In September 2012, the US Navy - all others are U.S.
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * announced that the first Armstrong-class vessel is named RV Neil Armstrong. - the class also named after him (or is that a navy thing that first vessel of a class is named for class?)
 * No, the class is named after the ship. The class is usually named after the first ship in the class.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Purdue University announced in October 2004 that its new engineering building would be named Neil Armstrong Hall of Engineering in his honor, - named its new? should name be in italics?
 * Don't see the need.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * authors such as Stephen Ambrose and James A. Michener, but agreed to work with James R. Hansen after reading one of Hansen's other biographies - wlinks for Ambrose and Michener?
 * ✅ Linked.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * is scheduled to be released on October 2018. - in
 * ✅ Done.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Flying magazine - wlink?
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Flying magazine - wlink?
 * ✅  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

Consistencies I've got a couple of others, unrelated to above, to come. Regards, JennyOz (talk) 00:02, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Mission Control (2) v mission control (1)
 * ✅ Standardised on "Mission Control"  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  10:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Lunar Module v lunar module + pilot v Pilot
 * ✅ Standardised on "Lunar Module Pilot", per WP:SPACEFLIGHT's preferences.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  10:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * touchdown (2) v touch-down (1) v touch down (2)
 * ✅ Standardised on "touch down".  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  10:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * space flight (1) v spaceflight (5)
 * ✅ Standardised on "spaceflight"  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  10:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Eugene Cernan v Gene Cernan v Eugene A Cernan
 * ✅ Standardised on Gene Cernan.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * In two places Apollo 11 is italicised:
 * Apollo 11 Command Module pilot Michael Collins said
 * from the Apollo 11 landing site, and asteroid
 * ✅ Corrected.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

Last bits

Consistency - These are the conversions to look over for consistency in formatting. (Sorry long list, thought easier visually.)
 * Altitudes:
 * 20 feet (6 m)
 * 30,000 ft (9 km)
 * 30,000 ft (9 km)
 * 11.4 miles (18.3 km)
 * 207,500 feet (63,200 m)
 * 207,000 feet (63 km)
 * 140,000 feet (43,000 m)
 * 100,000 feet (30 km)
 * 207,500 feet (63.2 km)


 * Speeds
 * 350 mph (560 km/h)
 * 210 mph (338 km/h)
 * Mach 3 (2,000 mph, 3,200 km/h)
 * Mach 5.74 (3,989 mph, 6,420 km/h)


 * Lengths and distances
 * 3 feet (1 m)
 * 40 miles (64 km)
 * 100 feet (30 m)
 * 50 feet (15 m)
 * 67-inch (1.7 m)
 * 65 yards (59 m)
 * 31 miles (50 km)

Misc
 * In lede, the High-Speed Flight Station links to Dryden Flight Research Center which redirects to Armstrong Flight Research Center. This research center is mentioned in opening of Test pilot section but does it also need to appear in Legacy?
 * ✅ Moved to the Legacy section.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  10:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Images - some captions have unnecessary full stops?
 * ✅ Removed.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  10:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * The an uncle
 * ✅ Corrected.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  10:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Is in category Recipients of the Cullum Geographical Medal which is not mentioned in Legacy. (I didn't actually check cats, this one just jumped out at me.)
 * ✅ Added.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  10:41, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

That's it now. JennyOz (talk) 08:07, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

Neil Armstrong
Neil Armstrong was born on August 5 1930 in Wapakoneta Ohio. Also he was in the boy scouts when he was young. He entered his first plane at age six with his father. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.214.158.254 (talk) 16:58, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Not done These facts are already in the article, with citations to reliable sources. (It says he had his first plane ride at age five, not six.) JustinTime55 (talk) 14:54, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

Saw action
"Saw action" is military jargon and should be improved to a more common language form. -Inowen (talk) 06:35, 12 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Not done See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history/Archive 144 for the discussion.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:35, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

Reclusiveness
I am going to use this section to document Armstrong's purported reclusiveness, and incorporate the information into the article once I have a good representation of the sources. I plan to start by recording where in the books this is discussed, then I will try to write a coherent section.


 * A Man on the Moon - pages 568-570

 Kees08  (Talk)   09:41, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

Compared to other astronauts, Armstrong has been known as a recluse. He turned down most interviews and declined many public appearances. Michael Collins said in his book Carrying the Fire that when Armstrong moved to a dairy farm to become a college professor it was like he "retreated to his castle and pulled up the drawbridge". Armstrong found this amusing, and noted that, "...those of us that live out in the hinterlands think that people that live inside the Beltway are the ones that have the problems." Andrew Chaikin says in A Man on the Moon that Armstrong kept a low profile, but was not a recluse, due to participation in interviews, advertisements for Chrysler, and hosting a cable television series.

Armstrong used to autograph everything except for first day covers. Around 1993, he found out his signatures were being sold online, and most of them were forgeries, so he stopped autographing material. (first man, page 622)

That is my first draft of what to write based on what is in A Man on the Moon. I did not see anything in First Man that seemed to talk about his reclusiveness; I may have missed it, Hawkeye? Barbtree's book has mention of it, so I will include that. I have a mention from Carrying the Fire (because of A Man on the Moon), and I intend to include some...non-space centric sources as well, if that is the right way to put it, just to show what the general public thought of his reclusiveness. Feel free to copyedit the above, and I will keep marching towards finishing this as time allows.  Kees08  (Talk)   06:26, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * My copy of Barbree arrived in the mail today, so I'll have a look too.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  10:51, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Sounds good; probably easier than me trying to listen for it. I believe it is in the introduction or the first couple of chapters that he talks about it, cannot remember if he talks about it later.  Kees08  (Talk)   16:19, 31 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Source 1 (CNN)
 * Source 2 (WaPo)
 * CBS

Some sources to pull from to finish writing.  Kees08  (Talk)   21:00, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 July 2018
Change the incorrect addition of [a] in the quaotation "One small step for [a] man, One giant leap for mankind" to the correct quotation as said; "One small step for man, One giant leap for mankind". 206.53.71.241 (talk) 13:46, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. See the fairly extensive discussion of this exact subject a few sections up the page. &#8209;&#8209; El Hef  ( Meep? ) 14:09, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

FAC review continued
Hey there. Would you like to continue reviewing this article? It sounds like you were not particularly satisfied with the conclusion. Can you name the top five sources that you most dislike? I can work to change them out for better sources, if needed.  Kees08  (Talk)   06:35, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi Kees, thanks for drawing my attention to this again. I wouldn't say I'm dissatisfied. I think I tend to set the bar a lot higher than most people when it comes to what "high-quality reliable sources" are. I guess what sources should be used depends on what kind of sources are available for a certain topic. When that's possible, I think articles should use only academic sources. I was a little surprised when I looked into this that the Hansen book seems to be the only academic biography of Armstrong. But even then I feel like high-reputation newspapers and the like should be used. I know that's not how most people see it, so I won't insist on that kind of thing. Here are some examples of sources that I would rather not see used in featured articles (I'm probably wrong about some of these, so you should probably look at this in part as me asking what makes these sources high-quality. Also, I haven't checked whether the information attributed to these sources is contained in other sources that are also cited.):
 * FN 1 and 67: I don't know how much time a small-town government puts into the history section of their website. The same thing goes for the English website of a Russian regional government.
 * FN 1 removed, the Hansen citation covers it. I cannot verify that the page number is correct, since I have the 2012 edition, but I did verify it was in the book (as you may expect).  Kees08  (Talk)  
 * FN 67...I really appreciate you bringing this to my attention. I never knew there was debate over who the first civilian in space was. I checked all my books, which admittedly are mostly for American spaceflight, and none of them credit Tereshkova for being the first civilian. A small amount of research shows that some say Tereshkova, some Armstrong, some Tito, and some McAuliffe. I need to do a bit more research before I change anything, just wanted to let you know the story.  Kees08  (Talk)  
 * FN 10: This is just a long list of award recipients with very little context. Also, I might be missing something, but it doesn't seem to mention the Silver Buffalo Award at all.
 * I added a ref for Eagle Scout (know you did not ask for it, did it anyways). Replaced the Distinguished Eagle Scout Award ref with a newspaper reference, and added a Silver Buffalo citation, similar to the BSA citation earlier. I was thinking of just removing the Silver Buffalo award since no one reported on it that I could find, and I did not find it in his book. Thoughts on all this?  Kees08  (Talk)  
 * FN 127 and others: What makes collectSpace reliable? According to our article, it's a website for enthusiasts.
 * Good question! I used to avoid collectSpace sources. I found as time went on that places like Space.com uses them, and I started to link to them directly to cut out the middle man. I do avoid the forums as references, for obvious reasons, which is the space enthusiast portion of it. With that, there are two collectSpace citations in this article. One is for the [a] in his famous quote, and the other is on his selection of a biographer. I can try to replace if possible, or I will leave as-is if you are fine with that.  Kees08  (Talk)  
 * FN 136 and others: I guess about.com is probably reliable, but it doesn't really seem like the most reputable source
 * Replaced one of them, you can see the details in my edit summary. Working on the other one.  Kees08  (Talk)  
 * Replaced the other one as well, see edit summary for details.  Kees08  (Talk)  
 * FN 139: I'd rather see a secondary source for this than a letter by an attorney who's involved.
 * Not sure this is the right FN?  Kees08  (Talk)  
 * I think I found it and removed it?  Kees08  (Talk)  
 * The footnote numbers refer to this version of the article. Like I said, though, this may just be me having a threshold for reliability that's way too high.--Carabinieri (talk) 21:30, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I think that takes care of those, I am more than happy to take care of any others or to do more work on the above.  Kees08  (Talk)   02:09, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

Personal Life: Armstrong's Words on Jesus in Jerusalem
Hi FlightTime. Can you please inform me as to why you deleted my edit on Armstrong's words about Jesus while in Jerusalem. I cited primary and secondary sources that are reliable. I am also asking you to rethink your decision to delete my edit and restore my words back to the article. Thanks.BuckRogers25 (talk) 17:09, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Not sure of FlightTime's rationale, but I do not think that event is notable enough for Armstrong's article.  Kees08  (Talk)   02:44, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

Hi Kees08. Don't you think it is important to show  Armstrong's religious view after he came back from the moon.
 * Armstrong's religious view is covered in "Personal life". It would be a misrepresentation to characterise the comments you quoted as pertaining to his religious view.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  01:12, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

Hi Hawkeye7. The comments of Armstrong I wrote do accurately speak to his religious view some years after Apollo 11 while he visited Jerusalem. This is important to understanding the man. I am not disputing that he was a deist earlier, but his faith evidently changed some years after Apollo 11. BuckRogers25 (talk) 04:03, 30 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Have we got a reliable source that says that? We can add it to the article instead.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  04:22, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

I'll get back to you on this.BuckRogers25 (talk) 23:17, 1 October 2018 (UTC) Thomas Friedman noted that Armstrong was a "devout Christian" on pg.429, From Beirut to Jerusalem(1990). Also Bartlett's Book of Anecdotes(2000) says the same on pg,23. Can you and my fellow editors let me add this to the Armstrong article, or at least restore my original edit.BuckRogers25 (talk) 02:56, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 October 2018
I want to add to the awards section and add eagle scout. OhMerxy (talk) 02:16, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 October 2018
Gemini 8 part, mistake in a word: Out of contact with the ground, the docked spacecraft began to roll, and Armstrong attempted to correct this with the Orbital Attitude and Maneuvering System (OAMS) of the Gemini spacecraft. IT'S ALTITUDE and maneuvering system not ATTITUDE 209.15.78.91 (talk) 04:33, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
 * ❌ Attitude is correct, here it means the orientation. You can read about it at Attitude (geometry). JennyOz (talk) 04:44, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Also see Orbit Attitude and Maneuvering System (The article linked to the wrong page, for some reason.) JustinTime55 (talk) 13:46, 25 October 2018 (UTC)

Notes vs. References
Maybe I'm wrong, but why is the reflist added into the "Notes" Section; shouldn't it be in the "References" section, as they are not notes but references? IntegralPython (talk) 20:25, 1 December 2018 (UTC)


 * It's our standard format. See MOS:NOTES.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  21:44, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 December 2018
Add his signature https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Neil_Armstrong_Signature.svg Rccji (talk) 14:11, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done, thanks! &#8209;&#8209; El Hef  ( Meep? ) 14:31, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

"That's one small step for [a] man, one giant leap for mankind" in introductory paragraph
The way this quote is included in the second sentence of the entire article is, honestly, clunky. Should it be removed or at least reworded? Hairygrim (talk) 14:03, 6 April 2018 (UTC)


 * I am a bit shocked that someone added "[a]" to Armstrong's famous statement. How is that not OR and/or POV? Who is to say if he used the term "man" to mean just one man or men in general, when he said that? I think that "[a]" should be removed from his famous statement. Quote him EXACTLY as he said it and leave to the members of "mankind" to make their own interpretations of what he meant. EditorASC (talk) 09:19, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
 * As noted in the article, Armstrong always insisted that he did say it.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  11:50, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
 * It is most definitely not original research. If you check reliable sources (and by that I mean print sources published shortly after the event, not today's internet) you will find Armstrong's statement frequently rendered that way. "Man" and "mankind" are essentially synonymous, so the sentence really made no sense without the "a", and accordingly Armstrong always maintained that was his intent, even insisting that he did say it. His accent and manner of speech made it possible that he might have slurred over it so quickly that it disappeared. In any event, all of this was clearly understood by observers and commentaries, and no one made a big deal out of it, unlike today's Wikidrama we make of it (which I consider to be an artifact of the cultural decay that has taken place in the past 49 years (including belief in the "hoax"). JustinTime55 (talk) 13:24, 24 May 2018 (UTC)


 * In response to the above, especially your statement of "which I consider to be an artifact of the cultural decay."


 * I think the view you are presenting is indeed OR and POV. You seem to insist that the only WP:RS that counts, are the ones published shortly after the event. If that is the editing standard we should be bound by, then I suggest the overwhelming amount of Wikipedia articles need to be revised to conformed to that new, UNIQUE and previously unheard of editing rule, which I can find nowhere in the Wiki editing rule book, aside from your declaration on this page.


 * In fact, you are arguing for the minority WP:FRINGE theory, to the exclusion of the conclusions drawn by almost all of the "experts" that have since examined that issue. If you would bother to read the ENTIRE Snopes citation, including ALL of the sources Snopes cites, you will find that:


 * a) While Armstrong might have INTENDED to include the "a" word, he did not IN FACT include that word, when he made that famous statement.


 * b) The claim that static covered up the "a" word, was nothing more than a deliberate and willful re-writing of actual history by NASA, apparently for the purpose of helping Armstrong to save face.


 * c) Though Armstrong did insist for a very long time that he had actually included the "a" word, he finally admitted he flubbed it and DID FAIL to include that word in his most historic statement, as he set foot on the Moon. These excerpts, quoted in the Snopes citation, verify overwhelmingly that Armstrong did NOT actually include the "a" word:


 * Then the Grumman representative, Tommy Attridge, put on a commemorative 45-rpm recording of the flight. No matter what speed they played it at, there was no “a”.


 * According to the authors, Mr. Armstrong sighed, “Damn, I really did it. I blew the first words on the moon, didn’t I?”


 * Did he actually say “One small step for a man,” with the indefinite article a somehow lost in transmission? No, he did not, and to imply otherwise is revisionist history. Granted, it is possible, if not probable, that he intended to say “a man.” From the tone and inflection of his voice it seems for all the world that Armstrong caught the mistake immediately. Following “That’s one small step for man,” he added another one, stopped again, then finished the statement with “giant leap for mankind.” There’s nothing lost in transmission, nothing at all, no matter what any super-scientific studies to the contrary might suggest.


 * Thus, the most important WP:RS citation of all about this particular issue, the Snopes article, says exactly the opposite of what this current Wikipedia article says about that faux pas.


 * I think the only proper solution is to remove the "[a]" from the current statement in the article, since THAT is what the Snopes citation really says:


 * Did Neil Armstrong flub his historic 'one small step' line? The Snopes Answer to that question was "True." EditorASC (talk) 18:49, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Glad to see you agree with us! Using brackets indicate that the words were not said, but intended. If we did not include the [] and made it "That's one small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind.", then the article would be incorrect and OR. Since he did not actually say a, and he intended to say a, using [a] is the most accurate way to portray the quote.  Kees08  (Talk)   19:02, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

It should be written "That's one small step for man (pause)"one" pause "giant leap for mankind". With mention of the facts about his claims, and the counter claims about the line; that he claimed for many years that he said "a" (citation), that he claimed he composed it prior to disembarking (citation), and, despite suspicions to the contrary (citation), it was not composed by anyone else (citation), that there was controversy (citation), and examination of the transmission (citation). That it was not only the missing "a" that is pointed out by examiners but also the two pauses, and the run through of the last "small step for mankind" resulting in four errors in delivering the line (citation). He eventually admitted that he blew the line (citation). 98.164.64.98 (talk) 12:43, 12 January 2019 (UTC)


 * All of that is already in the article. It would be inappropriate in the lead.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  01:57, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Korean War incident
This article says:

In September 1951, he was hit by anti-aircraft fire while making a low bombing run, and was forced to bail out.

and

Armstrong's F9F Panther was hit by anti-aircraft fire. While trying to regain control, he collided with a pole at a height of 20 feet (6 m), which sliced off 3 feet (1 m) of the Panther's right wing.

yet in a 2001 interview for the NASA Johnson Space Center Oral History Project (JSC OHP), Armstrong provides a different account of this event:

The source for the current text is Hansen's First Man: The Life of Neil A. Armstrong. A pdf of the interview can be found at: https://history.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/ArmstrongNA_9-19-01.html CosmicRayReardon (talk) 23:15, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Can someone address this inconsistency? or alter the article to note that the facts are disputed? Thanks. CosmicRayReardon (talk) 17:53, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I am not sure how I missed this, that was a good find. I am hoping I did not write that paragraph! In Hansen, on pages 92 and 93, it discusses how there was an initial report, an article in a Navy news magazine, a NASA writeup, and a biography that all alter more details of the flight. For some reason, this article was based on those. The next page (94) discuss the events are Armstrong remembered them. Maybe the prose could be reworked, but I tried to include both the initial report and what happened. Since the last part of the mission was the same, I left it as it was. Does it look good now?  Kees08  (Talk)   04:30, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Nice work! Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that Armstrong was unsure if the anti-aircraft fire significantly contributed to the incident or not sure it "played a part". I don't have access to Hansen, but the Oral History does not exactly say he believed that no shots struck his aircraft. "I don't know to what extent that antiaircraft fire played a part in it, but I actually ran through a cable, an antiaircraft cable..."--- Coffee  and crumbs  05:07, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I think it was pretty explicit in First Man that it was not AA fire. I think Armstrong might be eluding to his altitude or other factors that the antiaircraft fire would affect. I suppose I do not know, but I always assumed it would be obvious if AA fire hit you. I can double check the Hansen reference for the exact verbage though.  Kees08  (Talk)   06:15, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Nevermind, I found a copy of page 94 where Hansen clearly says in his own voice that "antiaircraft fire did not hit [the aircraft]." ---  Coffee  and crumbs  18:05, 10 April 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request
Please insert the following sentence at the end of the death and legacy section:

In 2019, the College of Engineering at Purdue University celebrated the 50th anniversary of Neil Armstrong's walk on the moon by launching the prestigious Neil Armstrong Distinguished Visiting Fellows Program, which brings highly accomplished scholars and practitioners to the college to catalyze collaborations with faculty and students.

--Coe-1878 (talk) 13:40, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
 * ✅ Added.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  20:31, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

Image suggestion
(others are encouraged to comment as well). What do you think of using File:Armstrong Awarded Space Medal of Honor - GPN-2000-001863.jpg in lieu of File:Congressional Gold Medal Astronauts.jpg? Both are good, but I think the first might illustrate him as an individual better than the medal does. If you like the medal better, fine by me.  Kees08  (Talk)   03:08, 23 February 2019 (UTC)


 * I don't like the medal, but haven't we got a colour photo?  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  05:08, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
 * We have one of him getting inducted in a hall of fame: File:US_Navy_100514-N-3852A-002_Former_astronaut_Neil_Armstrong_gives_an_acceptance_speech_after_being_inducted_into_the_Naval_Aviation_Hall_of_Honor_at_the_National_Naval_Aviation_Museum_in_Pensacola,_Fla.jpg  Kees08  (Talk)   23:34, 3 May 2019 (UTC)


 * That's a fine image. Added.  Hawkeye7   (discuss)  23:45, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

Reclusiveness section
I am concerned that this is an undue CSECTION. It could easily be trimmed slightly (or perhaps split up) and merged into other sections like Personal life. Or at the very least the heading should be changed to "Public profile" or something. Any thoughts? --- Coffee  and crumbs  03:13, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
 * It could maybe go under personal life, but it is not really a negative section in my opinion since it just dispenses of the myth. Having it broken out as its own section helps readers find it.  Kees08  (Talk)   05:44, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
 * That is kind of my point. The content doesn't much up with the section heading. A true heading would be "Not reclusive". --- Coffee  and crumbs  06:03, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
 * How about moving it under Personal life with the subsection heading "Public profile"? The best place is probably after the first paragraph of "Public life"; that way, the first paragraph leads into it. Not sure whether the subsection title is really necessary or not; it's probably better structure without it. (Technically, you're not supposed to divide into subsections unless you have at least two, but hardly anybody seems to follow that.) JustinTime55 (talk) 12:30, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

I took a stab at rearranging the sentences. I took the TV section and a bit from the personal life section to make a public profile section. Feel free to revert if you think it is worse. --- Coffee  and crumbs  14:22, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

Reason he went to Purdue
Might be worth adding, the reason he chose (or looked at, I suppose) Purdue over other schools is reported in an RS.  Kees08  (Talk)   21:50, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
 * ✅ Still think it was because he didn't want to leave Ohio, but it's a nice touch. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  19:16, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Purdue is in Indiana :). That's why it was a bit surprising he chose Purdue of Ohio State. Thanks for adding it though, figured since I went to Purdue I should not add it myself.  Kees08  (Talk)   21:47, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

Clunky college years
In the 'College Years' section the phrase 'but not outstanding' is used twice in two lines. It doesn't read well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.253.143.2 (talk) 13:59, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

First Wife's Age
At the end of the 'College Years' section, it describes his first wife dying at the age of two. I don't have access to the book cited to correct this to the appropriate age. Any ideas on how to correct this obvious mistake? Lapisphil (talk) 21:45, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
 * , Karen is his daughter who died aged 2 years old. --- Coffee  and crumbs  22:19, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 July 2019
The sentence: "In an open letter also signed by fellow Apollo veterans Lovell and Cernan, he noted, "For The United States, the leading space faring nation for nearly half a century, to be without carriage to low Earth orbit and with no human exploration capability to go beyond Earth orbit for an indeterminate time into the future, destinies our nation to become one of second or even third rate stature". The word "destinies" should be spell corrected to "destines" 71.223.11.242 (talk) 01:11, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Done.   Hawkeye7   (discuss)  02:11, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 July 2019
Change "people" to "person" in frst paraph. 108.18.179.27 (talk) 16:57, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting wait.svg Already done Masum Reza 📞 17:16, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 July 2019
Change "people" to "person" in third paragraph. 108.18.179.27 (talk) 16:59, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: The grammar is correct there. Person refers to a single individual and people refers to multiple individuals or a group. In third paragraph, "people" is used to refer two astronauts, Armstrong and his companion. Masum Reza 📞  17:22, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

Neil A Armstrong receives first Honorary Doctor of Science Degree from Drake University, Des Moines, Iowa May 14th, 1972
Neil Alden Armstrong receives first and only Honorary Doctor of Science Degree from Drake University, Des Moines, Iowa May 14th 1972.
 * Petersonsb (talk) 20:08, 27 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Did you have a suggestion or proposal about this claim? Thanks? Martinevans123 (talk) 14:48, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

change in to on.
on paragraph 3 change in to on march. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.183.231.140 (talk) 22:06, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Not done. That would be grammatically incorrect; "on" is used if a complete date including day is given. "In March" is correct. JustinTime55 (talk) 17:07, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

Neil Armstrong TV
Hello. New and not sure what to do here. I was wanting to suggest an addition to the TV section in the article. On September 17, 1962 his parents appeared on the TV show "I've Got a Secret". He had just been named an astronaut that afternoon. His mother just made the show being flown in for the appearance. The interesting note is, Gary Moore asked Mrs. Armstrong. "How would you feel Mrs. Armstrong if it turned out, as nobody knows, if it turns out your son is the first man to land on the moon".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBnac1EnWuo

Images
(or others), I uploaded a few new images to Commons of Armstrong which can be seen on my uploads page. I think File:Armstrong in Aircraft (EC91-572-3).jpg is my favorite of the bunch. Just noting here in case anyone wants to swap any photos.  Kees08  (Talk)   00:29, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 March 2020
Bryce250 (talk) 18:02, 4 March 2020 (UTC) i would like to add some info about things they have left on the moon.
 * ❌. Gosh, how very forgetful of them. Or was it just Armstrong? I think you might have to say what those things were and provide some suitable supporting source(s). Martinevans123 (talk) 18:30, 4 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Well well, how about using Wikipedia to answer some question? (yes/no/whats a toothbrush?)
 * You can start with the short list:
 * They must have left the landing platform, as it was not in pictures, when they docked in the way back, and
 * It was in movies made at moon lift off.
 * A golf ball.
 * USGA found the lunar golf balls in high-resolution, enhanced scans of the original flight footage of the Apollo 14 mission.
 * Corner reflectors
 * Fifty years (and a few days) ago, the Apollo 11 astronauts left the Lunar Laser Ranging experiment on the moon. The experiment contained a tray of 100 small prisms that scientists on Earth would shoot with laser beams. Astronauts on Apollo 14 and 15 followed suit, leaving more of these prisms, known as retroreflectors, on the moon. Incredibly, decades later, these reflectors remain active experiments.
 * An American flag
 * "About a dozen types of instruments were installed on the moon. Some measured its magnetic field. Others sniffed out the chemical makeup of its fragile atmosphere. NASA’s Lunar Data Project is restoring data from these and other Apollo experiments. That way, scientists can continue to pore over the observations for years to come.
 * “When you have this incredibly rare resource, you can’t not keep working on it,” says planetary scientist Renee Weber. She studies lunar seismic data at NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Ala. “There are always new techniques to try” and better computers to tease out missed signals." [ https://www.sciencenewsforstudents.org/article/learning-what-apollo-astronauts-left-moon ]
 * They also left some shit bags.

I don't think this article is the appropriate place for this. Suggest taking it up on the Project Apollo page. Hawkeye7  (discuss)  21:40, 18 August 2021 (UTC)