Talk:New York Yankees/Archive 5

Current Roster (2008)
What idiot made it say that Brian Bruney is on the 15 Day DL?? If you know anything about sports or watch ESPN, you should know that today (4-25-08) it was announced that Brian Bruney would miss the rest of the season with a torn ligament in his foot. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DfraseR13 (talk • contribs) 02:03, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, he's back. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.117.5.88 (talk) 03:56, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Retired Section
The number 21 was reissued for a spring training game against the Pirates on March 13th, 2008 to a back-up player who did not start but was later inserted into the game. O'Neill explained on air that Brain Cashman had phoned him, saying the Yankees would reissue his number. Whether or not it will be worn in the future is unknown. (anon)

It was given to Morgan Ensberg at the start of spring training. However, until its actually worn in a regular season game, it hasn't actually been re-issued. JustSomeRandomGuy32 (talk) 21:07, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Alternate jersey
I'm removing the reference to the Tigers never having worn an alt jersey - UniWatch says that they had one in 1995 (although it was short-lived). I'll add this to the Tigers article... after I create a section on their uniforms, perhaps. SixFourThree (talk) 20:33, 28 March 2008 (UTC)SixFourThree

All-Star Game
THere's a line that says that the All-Star Game is being played at Yankee Satdium in 2008 because the new Yankee Satadiumis being built in Macombs Dam Park. Aside from not making any sense (siounds like the decison was made because of where the new stadium will be), it's uncited...there is no MLB rule that states that the All-Star game is played in a certain stadium because it's closing (why isn't the game being played at Shea?). 162.136.192.1 (talk) 18:59, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not a rule, it's just a decision that MLB made. Yankee Stadium has a unique historical importance that far surpasses that of any other ballpark. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 19:15, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I changed the wording to make it a little clearer why the All-Star Game is being played there this year. I'm sure it would be nice to honor Shea also, but they only have the one game. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 19:25, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Logo
I think the NY logo deserves its own article. In all of the talk page archives there seems to be some debate about it. The symbol, it seems, came about before the Yankees adopted it, and its use these days obviously extends far beyond baseball. There are kids in outer Mongolia wearing Yankeees caps - and I doubt they even know what baseball or New York is (althougt, noticeably, the page Baseball cap makes no reference to the archtypal blue cap and its many varieties). - 121.208.89.99 (talk) 02:34, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

No. No logos need their own articles. PepsiPlunge13&trade; 04:20, 14 May 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by PepsiPlunge13 (talk • contribs)

Image copyright problem with Image:Casey Stengel Time Cover.jpg
The image Image:Casey Stengel Time Cover.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check


 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
 * That this article is linked to from the image description page.

The following images also have this problem:


 * Image:Yankee Stadium 1928-1936.JPG
 * Image:Joe DiMaggio.jpg

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. --06:04, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Jackie Robinson retired number image
An editor changed the image representing Jackie Robinson's retired number from Image:Jackie robinson day.svg to Image:JR42Yankees.PNG. I think the original image is more appropriate in that it shows that Robinson was honored by all of MLB. Also the new image shows his number in pinstripes which would imply that he was a Yankee, which he was not. I would like to get a consensus before changing it back. --rogerd (talk) 12:00, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Change it back. 42 still isn't retired by the team as Rivera is still using it. --Michael Greiner 14:36, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure if using that logo on this page qualifies as fair use. It's not the article about Jackie Robinson Day, and this is definitely a copyrighted image. I don't have a particular suggestion because of the unique situation with Mariano Rivera (on the Phillies page, I just made an identical graphic in Dodger colors), but it's a thought to keep in mind relating to the image fair use policy. KV5  •  Squawk box  •  Fight on!  15:09, 29 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Jackie Robinson's 42 is among the retired numbers in Monument Park in Yankee Stadium - so there is no reason to remove it just based on the fact that Rivera still wears it. JustSomeRandomGuy32 (talk) 15:13, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The trend seems to be to show 42 retired in the colors of the individual teams. Check out Minnesota Twins and Chicago Cubs, for example. So the pin-stripe version is the obvious one to use here. It's still a retired number, and once Rivera retires, no Yankee (other than Rivera, presumably) will be able to use it. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 15:17, 29 May 2008 (UTC)


 * In Monument Park, Robinson's number is NOT shown in pinstripes like the rest of the retired numbers. Instead, the "Jackie Robinson Day" logo is used, which is a light blue circular logo which includes the #42, the date of the commemoration, and the Major League Baseball logo --not the Yankee logo (so as to indicate that Robinson's number was retired across MLB and to avoid implying that he was a Yankee) .  This is the image used in the current iteration of the article, and it is the right one.-PassionoftheDamon (talk) 01:58, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Grammatically Proper: "Yankee" or "Yankees" When Describing Something?
Just a question for anyone with impeccable grammar: when referring to something having to do with the Yankees (e.g., the Stadium, a game, the manager, the center fielder), is it proper to use the singular or plural form of Yankee(s) to describe/denote the subject? As an example, is it proper to say, "Yankee manager Joe Girardi" or "Yankees manager Joe Girardi?" Is it, "I'm going to a Yankee game," or "I'm going to a Yankees game?" The "Yankee family" or the "Yankees family?" Can either variant be used interchangeably, or is one grammatically correct or preferred over the other?-PassionoftheDamon (talk) 02:12, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Although the singular is often used colloquially, the full name of the team is the proper usage in most of those contexts. The team is called the Yankees, not the Yankee. Girardi is the Yankees manager, not the Yankee manager. He himself is a "Yankee", as are each the players individually. He manages all of them, not just one of them (unless things are really out of control). Regarding the stadium, that's an exception. It's called Yankee Stadium because that's what they decided to call it. Grammatically you could argue for "Yankees Stadium", but it is what it is. There is no convention for ballparks, as you can see: Tiger Stadium (Detroit), Dodger Stadium, Angel Stadium of Anaheim, Redland Field, Colt Stadium vs. Cubs Park, White Sox Park, Braves Field, Astros Field, Durham Bulls Athletic Park. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 04:10, 31 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the answer. What you said makes sense.  I've seen both variants used in various media, so this was something that had been irking me for a while.-PassionoftheDamon (talk) 10:45, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I had one of them wrong, now fixed. And just to muddy the waters, you have the football stadium called both Dolphin Stadium and Dolphins Stadium at various times. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 10:51, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm going to pose a purely speculative theory on this matter, and the many cunning linguists who read the baseball talk pages might be able to dive in: I think there's a linguistics factor here. "Yankees Stadium" would probably be technically correct, but the two S's slur together, so it's "cleaner" just to drop the first S. Obviously, not all stadium names have been done that way, though. But it's similar to the event originally called the "World's Championship Series", which was shortened to "World's Series" and was then transformed into "World Series". The two latter phrases would be pronounced virtually the same way, so the extra S was dropped. Related to that, "Yankees fans" or "[whoever]s fans" is a little bit of a challenge to say due to the s-f proximity. It might simply be easier on the mouth to say "Yankee fans". That doesn't account for "Yankee manager", which could only be attributed to a mal-formed habit. Anyway, that's my theory. :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 12:51, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I should point out that my grammar is not impeccable. I daresay it is very peccable. :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 12:51, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * More grammatical discussion from the archive: Talk:New_York_Yankees/Archive_4.--Michael Greiner 14:41, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I remember some of that. Somebody was arguing that it should be "Yankees is". It's "Yankees are", by conventional usage. I think that issue was finally settled. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 14:47, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * And it depends on how it's used, as a straight noun or as more of an adjective: "The Yankees are" vs. "The Yankees club is" would be the correct forms. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 14:50, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

This keeps getting more and more difficult to reconcile: on Phil Rizzuto's plaque in Monument Park, he's referred to as the "All-Time Yankee Shortstop" and "One of Great Yankee Broadcasters." Likewise, on Munson's plaque, he's referred to as the "Yankee captain." On Gehrig's monument, it speaks of it being a gift from "the Yankee Players." Dickey is referred to as a "Yankee coach." Howard's plaque refers to his dignity in wearing the "Yankee uniform." Martin's refers to him as "one of the greatest Yankee managers." Stengel is described as "Yankee manager, 1949-1960." Berra's contains references to his stints as "Yankee manager" and "Yankee catcher." Then, of course, there's DiMaggio's nickname ("The Yankee Clipper"). Considered alongside the name of the Stadium, I'm getting the distinct impression that "Yankee" is the preferred usage over "Yankees," or, at the very least, may be used interchangeably.-PassionoftheDamon (talk) 22:46, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The plural is the correct usage, but that doesn't mean everyone gets it right, nor is the singular so horribly wrong, either. But the plural is correct. If you're a "Yankee fan", which particular Yankee are you rooting for? Substitute the generic "player(s)" for "Yankee(s)" and the picture should become clearer - including why the expression "Yankees are..." is correct and "Yankees is..." is not correct. Regarding DiMaggio's nickname, "Yankees Clipper" wouldn't make much sense in any case, because the original Yankee Clipper was the name of an actual clipper ship. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 00:09, 4 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I disagree. When the plural is used, it seems to mean something akin to "fan of the Yankees" or "manager of the Yankees," whereas when the singular is used, it seems to focus more on the character of the subject.  It's a subtle difference between implicitly possessive and descriptive uses.  Take, for instance, the manager of the French national soccer team.  He could be referred to as "France manager so-and-so" or "French manager so-and-so."  The former usage would be analogous to using "Yankees," the latter to using "Yankee."  In the first usage, you're basically creating a double noun (France manager, Yankees jersey); in the latter, you're using the adjective form of the team name instead (French manager, Yankee jersey, Dodger blue).  I think the fact that "Yankee" is both an adjective and a proper noun to refer to an individual member of the organization is the source of the confusion.  (For a total non-sport use of the singular as a full-fledged adjective, look at the term "Yankee soldiers" in the Civil War.)  While I've seen both forms used, I've seen more than enough uses of the singular form of a team name to convince me that the singular is indeed proper: Monument Park inscriptions (above), stadiums (Yankee, Tiger, Dodger, Angel, Colt, Dolphin, Oriole Park), publication titles (Dolphin Digest, Packer Report, Giant Insider, Falcon Insider), names of colors (Dodger blue), etc.  Plus, I think the The Gray Lady is a pretty credible authority on this subject: "Yankee manager", "Yankee center fielder", "Yankee shortstop", "Yankee captain", "Yankee family", "Yankee championship ring", "Yankee loss", "Yankee pride", "Yankee general manager", "Yankee owner", "Yankee game", "Yankee officials", "Yankee great", "Yankee clubhouse", "Yankee jersey", etc.-PassionoftheDamon (talk) 06:16, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Logo section cleanup
Okay, I'm going to start a new project - cleaning up the logo section. There are a lot of inaccuracies here - for example, the jersey logo worn now is not the same as the jersey logo worn in 1936, or even in 1961. The problem I see is that finding hard and fast dates for some of these items may be a little tricky. For example, the Yankees' current primary logo is a slightly modified version of the one introduced in 1936. I know that the modern logo dates back to 1976, but the old one appears in press photos dated 1978. Possible that they hung an old flag as a backdrop for the press conference without really noticing or caring that the logo had been modified, or possible that they used both for a while. I'm trying to avoid OR here, and there doesn't seem to be a reliable resource with exact dates, so what would you think about using designations such as "1970s-pres." instead of a precise year? SixFourThree (talk) 16:37, 1 August 2008 (UTC)SixFourThree
 * A good source would be Marc Okkonen's 1993 book about baseball uniforms, if you can find it. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 16:59, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't know where my copy is, but all the good stuff ended up online. Not a great help here, I'm afraid - some of the "NY" changes were fairly minor, and aren't reflected in his graphics.  Mitchell and Ness is a little more help (compare this with this with this).  Neither is much help with the primary logo, though.  And as I said above, I'm wary of wandering into OR.  SixFourThree (talk) 21:28, 1 August 2008 (UTC)SixFourThree
 * On the other hand, if you have self-styled graphic artists drawing them here in order to avoid copyright violations from actually scanning them or copying them, whatayagonnado? There's also no compelling reason to have every logo. Arguably, just major changes would be considered "notable", and maybe that's what you could focus on. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 22:56, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't know that there's a problem with creating new versions for this article. As for the notable changes, that was my plan, more or less.  The original primary top hat logo and the modern version, the 1920s cap logo and the modern version, maybe a couple chest logos - 1912, 1930s, 1960s and modern.  Too much?  SixFourThree (talk) 14:24, 4 August 2008 (UTC)SixFourThree
 * I like illustrations, so you're asking the wrong guy, "Too much?" I do question changing the heading to include "Highlander logos". The Yankees were never officially the Highlanders, that was a media invention; and they never wore anything on their shirts that gave any hint of it. Also, they were being called "Yankees" as early as they were being called "Highlanders", in 1904. Better to just say "team logos" and avoid the issue. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 14:32, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not a fan of that change, either. Didn't want to start an edit war, but will address it when I have more substantive changes to make to the section.  I'm thinking about moving the Orioles logos to the History of the New York Yankees page, so that'll take care of it.  Also maybe restructuring so the cap logos are on one line, jersey logos on another, etc.  Really show the progression, which I think adds to the infomative nature of the article.  SixFourThree (talk) 16:04, 4 August 2008 (UTC)SixFourThree
 * Moving it to the history page makes sense. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 16:22, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Logo issues
apparently none of you are from New York. the Cap insignia is the logo not the logo you have on the logo area. you will se the cap insignia on the field and everywhere else. IsStewieGay 0:26, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Read this. --Michael Greiner 02:28, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It's a non issue. The logo is correct as is. --Yankees76 (talk) 19:52, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It appears that somebody's vandalized the page, replacing the primary logo with the cap logo and then the cap logo with the print logo. I'll fix it.  SixFourThree (talk) 15:04, 11 August 2008 (UTC)SixFourThree

Steinbrenner Doctorine Not Met (2000-2007)
I'm going to revert breaking the "Joe Torre Era" section into two sections, in part because it overly weighs the article towards the past decade (a separate subsection for each year?) and in part because this second heading doesn't make any sense. If anyone's got a better way to subdivide the Torre era for clarity, let's talk about it. SixFourThree (talk) 19:49, 20 August 2008 (UTC)SixFourThree

Integration
The article should mention that the Yanks were only the 12th of 16 teams to integrate, when Elston Howard played his first game for them on April 14, 1955--eight years and a day after Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.117.5.88 (talk) 03:53, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Article not exactly balanced.
The parts of the article that deal with the recent history of the Yankees are much larger than othet parts. This is due to perhaps the WP:Bias, and WP:Recent policies on wikipedia. Obviously recent history tends to get much more attention than older history, but we must be careful as editors, not to distort the medium, in order to add every single bit of information available.--Jojhutton (talk) 15:12, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * A typical problem with sports team articles. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 19:32, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I've tried to cut out a lot of the recentism. If you think this article is or was bad the Red Sox article is horrible. Tjrover (talk) 00:43, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Cap logo, again
This came up before, but the cap logo and the print logo are not the same thing (as the article explains). The cap logo image we had was deleted, but that deletion is now being (and consensus so far is to overturn the deletion). SixFourThree (talk) 16:07, 13 October 2008 (UTC)SixFourThree
 * The deletion was indeed overturned, so I'm putting the cap logo back in. SixFourThree (talk) 13:50, 14 October 2008 (UTC)SixFourThree

Photos from the final game
Anybody have photos from the final game at Yankee Stadium? We really should have a couple in this and the 2008 season article. It was an historic event that can't be ignored. I hope someone took a photo during the Jeter speech (which in my opinion rivaled Lou Gehrig's "The Luckiest Man on the Face of the Earth"), and when the players went around the field, or perhaps the final homerun/out. Anything of that sort would really add to the articles. --Pwnage8 (talk) 09:20, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Jeter is dying??? Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 10:36, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
 * LOL no. --Pwnage8 (talk) 10:52, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
 * No, just the Stadium is dying. But it's mute on the subject. Photos from the upcoming final event would be good too, if anyone is going who also edits wikipedia. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 10:56, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
 * The House That George (Ruth) Built, and The House That George (Steinbrenner) Demolished. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 10:57, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
 * The last game was the final event. --Pwnage8 (talk) 11:10, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Unless they've cancelled it, there's supposed to be something on November 9th. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 11:37, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
 * They cancelled it. --Pwnage8 (talk) 12:08, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I see. I suppose they figured they couldn't top the September 21 farewell, and maybe they were hoping it would be a post-World Series celebration, which obviously won't happen. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 12:40, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Are Yankee fans blue or red?
The last eight Yankees World Series wins have come under a Democrat:
 * 00, 99, 98, 96: Clinton
 * 78, 77: Carter
 * 62, 61: JFK

Yankees fans might want to vote for Obama O-) 216.179.123.109 (talk) 20:06, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Global expansion citations
I added two references for the "Global expansion" section. That section might be a little out-dated and could use a revision. --Valis2374 (talk) 20:31, 28 December 2008 (UTC)