Talk:Northern Ndebele people

Animist
For the time being I have removed the reference to "animist" beliefs. It appears to be used in Wikipedia exclusively to describe supernatural beliefs held by black people -- white British, American or German people who believe in ghosts and spirits are not generally referred to as animists. If anyone can suggest a more neutral term I'd be grateful. Humansdorpie 18:57, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Possible text for later incorporation
The text below was removed from the article on April 9, 2007, without any discussion. I'm not sure of the facts, so I'm moving the text here so that others can weigh in. Ctatkinson 23:10, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * the text has false informatiom 197.245.201.90 (talk) 10:05, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

"There is a general misconception that Ndebele are of Nguni or Zulu origin. In fact the Ndebele nation as created by its founder Mzilikazi Khumalo was made of a three tier system, people of Nguni origin (Zulu, Xhosa, Swati), Abenhla (Suthus, Tswana's and other tribes predomonantly found in South Africa) and Amahole'consisting of tribes like Kalangas, Vendas, Tongas, Nambyas). Ndebeles are a nation, not a tribe and within this nation there are common surnames like Khumalo, Nxumalo, Ncube, Sibanda, Moyo, Ndlovu, Mkhwananzi, Bhebhe, Dlodlo,Dube, Nkala, Nkomo, Tshuma, Mvundla, Ndebele, Khuphe, Nkiwane, Sibindi, Nyathi, Mpofu, Hlabangane, Siziba, Ngwenya, Mathuthu etc."

....All the above is not true.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.18.52.41 (talk) 08:02, 14 January 2014 (UTC)


 * 😂 Ndebele's were never formed by Mzilikazi, nor they originated from Zulu nation. If not so please someone tell me where is this name "Ndebele" comes from? And what it means?
 * ! 41.13.10.72 (talk) 00:07, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Actually the above summary sounds accurate. The Ndebele assimilated other Nguni and other Bantu while in the Transvaal and then Sotho and others when in Zimbabwe using the butho age regiments. 04:34, 22 September 2020 (UTC) Noel Ellis

The northern ndebele
For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all Infobox Ethnic group infoboxes. Comments may be left on the Ethnic groups talk page. Ling.Nut 23:08, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

The Northern Ndebeles were originally part of tbe South Ndebele tribe and broke off into the Limpopo boarders.The isiNdebele language, of which there are variations, is part of the Nguni language group. IsiNdebele is one of the 11 official languages recognized by the South African Constitution, and in 2006 it was determined that just under 600 000 South Africans speak isiNdebele as a home language. Similar to the country's other African languages; isiNdebele is a tonal language, governed by the noun which dominates the sentence.

There are three main groups of Ndebele people:

The Southern Transvaal Ndebele (now Gauteng and Mpumalanga) The Northern Transvaal Ndebele (now Limpopo Province) around the towns of Mokopane (Potgietersrus) and Polokwane (Pietersburg). The Ndebele people of Zimbabwe, who were called the Matabele by the British. The two South African Ndebele groups were not only separated geographically, but also differed in their language and cultural practices. The Ndebele of the Northern Province consisted mainly of the BagaLanga and the BagaSeleka groups who were influenced by their Sotho neighbours, and adopted much of their language and culture.

The famous house-painting, beadwork and ornamentation often spoken of as Ndebele are produced mostly by the Ndzundza Ndebele of Mpumalanga and Gauteng (Southern Ndebele). This group speaks a variation of isiNdebele that is considered a ‘purer’ form of the language, and is closely related to the Zulu language. This version is the only written form of the language. Strongly patriarchal attitudes and practices are evident in Ndebele communities. Perhaps more than many other groups, Ndzundza men – especially those of chiefly background – continue to practice polygamy. Women must practice ukuhlonipha (respect) towards their husbands and parents-in-law in particular, but also towards men in general. Making and selling beadwork, mats, dolls and other crafts have thus provided some Ndebele women with an independent livelihood. Source:http://www.sahistory.org.za/article/ndebele

"Twentieth Century"
Would anyone care to explain in what way they think it's unbalanced? It needs expansion, but the tag doesn't seem warranted to me. 128.135.230.219 (talk) 20:45, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Take for example the line "the illegal economic sanctions" that is opinion and not fact. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.0.247.179 (talk) 14:50, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Bantu category edit war
See Bantu category hierarchy on Commons for how it should be. The categories here may need renaming rather than recategorising articles in them and edit warring over it. If you look at the main article linked to Category:Bantu people, you will see it is intended for Bantu peoples not Bantu people (individuals). Helen Online  07:58, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
 * No, that there is only a Bantu peoples article give as the 'catmain' does not mean that the ethno category title should be "Bantu people"....singular; I contemplated a CFDS on this to match that main article name, i.e. Category:Bantu peoples, but Category:Bantu exists and that is the normal form for main ethno categories; NOT "FOO people" in the singular, which overwhelmingly is for "individuals who are FOO". The edit war is a nuisance and made completely with illogical edit comments = "just the opposite: there are no individual Bantu people"....if that is the case, then Category:Bantu people should be deleted; Category:Bantu is not about one or two articles, it's about all peoples classed as Bantu peoples; not about singular-people individuals.Skookum1 (talk) 16:31, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Actually, your edit comment also makes no sense "Bantu cat is broader than peoples"....how so? Category:Bantu is for "all things Bantu, including subgroups and more; of which "people who are Bantu" is a subset; since, as the edit warrior who opposed all things Skookum1, is correct in his assertion that "there are no Bantu people" i.e. "Bantu individuals", then there should be no such cat; the subcats may be poorly titled relative to normal category tree standards for ethno articles, e.g. there is no Category:Ovambo parent for Category:Ovambo people, but that is easily remedied.  The "FOO people" ambiguity is why that disambiguation was avoided for category and main article titles; FOO was used, very widely, to avoid any such complications, and to leave "FOO people" for "people who are FOO" or "people who are from FOO" individual bios to be subcatted.Skookum1 (talk) 16:39, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Please join the discussion at Categories for discussion/Log/2014 May 24. Helen  Online  16:41, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Based on your comments above, you clearly haven't read through my comment above or the Commons link in it or the CFD proposal. Edit warring and flying off the handle without even listening first is pretty pointless and unconstructive. I am trying to sort this mess out, not gatecrash your edit warring party. Helen  Online  16:50, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Launching a CfD when all you had to do was create Category:Bantu peoples and move some things around is "flying off the handle"; I moved articles about peoples into the main cat where they belong; they do not belong in "Bantu people"; it's you that's making the fuss.....and the other edit-warrior whose agenda is that "FOO people" should be for everything "FOO". You partook in his edit war, rather than simply make the needed Category:Bantu peoples.  Shut down your needless CfD and just make the category and start sorting out what belongs where; I might have myself by now if not busy elsewhere; dragging things to discussion boards when there are simple actions to take is all too common and is a waste of time and energy.Skookum1 (talk) 01:37, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

What does "Umvukela Wesibili" mean?
The second uprising after the first uprising of 1893 against foreign occupation. What does "Umvukela Wesibili" mean? There is no explanation what this means. It is not reasonable to assume it's meaning is apparent or well known. I would like to know what it means. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.16.134.7 (talk) 10:41, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

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"Amandebele" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Amandebele. The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 September 2 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 13:51, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

Joshua Nkomo as famous Ndebele

==================== == It is correct that the ZAPU movement led by Joshua Nkomo was dominated by Ndebele, but Nkomo himself was not Ndebele, he was Kalanga, a Shona sub-group allied with the Ndebele.

Noel Ellis — Preceding unsigned comment added by Noel Ellis (talk • contribs) 04:35, 22 September 2020 (UTC)