Talk:Oil refinery

Lack of new refineries
The history section currently states: "In fact, obtaining a licence to build even a modern refinery with minimal impact on the environment (other than CO2 emmissions) is so difficult and costly that no new refineries have been built in the United States since 1976. As a result, the US is becoming more and more dependent on the imports of finished gasoline, as opposed to incremental crude oil."

However, there's been some pretty mainstream work suggesting that collusion between oil companies rather than restrictive environmental regulations has been the major cause of the lack of recent refinery investment. In any event, it seems unreasonable to blame environmental laws for the US dependence on imported gasoline without something more to back it up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DashingDan@gmail.com (talk • contribs) 13 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I would tend to disagree with both above suggestions. I assume we are talking about US refining? There certainly are complications with proper permitting for refineries, not only environmentally, but also due to "not in my backyard" mentalities in many proposed locations. There is NO conclusive evidence to indicate collusion on the part of refineries or oil companies. Stories certainly circulate, but nothing has ever been proven. I believe it to be a matter of profits. Most refineries in the US are only now beginning to run at or near 100% efficiency (most in the 90% range of design). Older and less efficient refiniries have been closed. The industry had excess capacity for years. Current demand can be met and there is talk of building new refiniries to meet the coming increase on the demand side. CBreeze 16:53, 8 September 2006 (UTC) --CBreeze talk


 * Found a reference, made a few edits. I thought even Helen Keller could have made the connection between "no new refineries in the United States" and "higher gas prices at the pump".Lowellt 04:10, 5 May 2007 (UTC)


 * No new refineries - more dependence on foreign oil is not a cause and effect relationship.  There haven't been many new refineries, but old ones are being added to and expanded all the time. Multi-billion dollar capital expenitures are ongoing all the time to expand and upgrade the nation's largest refineries.  A lot of the reticence of oil companies to invest in huge new refineries is uncertainty of the industry's future.  Fuel alternatives and emerging technologies don't ensure that an expensive new refinery will be able to run at capacity for a long period of time (like CBreeze said).  Deatonjr (talk) 19:09, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Page move
This should probably be at Petroleum refinery since oil has more meanings than just petroleum. Also vegetable oils are refined too, so oil refining has more meanings than this article suggests. If the article is at oil refinery it would have to cover both, which is awkward. Any thoughts? - Taxman Talk 13:04, August 16, 2005 (UTC)


 * I fully agree with you. Many of the oil and gas related articles are poorly titled.  --Csnewton 15:46, 16 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I disagree. "Petroleum" properly speaking just means the light fractions of the distillation. It is a refinery for Crude Oil. --BozMo talk 09:41, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Image - Problem with Temperatures
The crude oil distillation image is good but the temperature data on it is incorrect (or misleading). The temperatures shown are the approximate boiling points of the HEAVIEST component of that fraction, not the temperature of the chamber or the liquid collected. Temperatures shown SHOULD be the BP of the LIGHTEST component of the fraction. As the lighter components "boil", small amounts of heavier components are carried with the lighter components even though the temperature is not close to the heavier component's boiling point (like water evaporating at 25ºC). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.240.151.121 (talk • contribs) 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Fire?
When I see an oil refinery, I often see a large orange flame coming from the top of a tall tower. What is this for? What is it called? Why isn't that flame used for something useful like heating or driving a turbine? ―BenFrantzDale 03:41, 17 February 2006 (UTC)


 * That is what is known as a gas flare. It is used as a discharge for noncondensible flammable gases that are difficult to process/use otherwise.  These can include non-conforming gas products and emergency discharges.  Non conforming products are usually obtained during upset operation of units or during startup/shutdown transients.  Some condensible hydrocarbons are usually separated right upstream from the flare stack in a simple separator unit.  However, due to the variable and sometimes unpredictable nature of the flare gas stream, it is difficult to design and operate a more advanced heat or material recovery system.  As a personal note, there is a certain beauty that these flares bring to the nocturnal lanscape, especially in industrial areas where surroundings are usually unsightly. Wouldn't trade that for a steam boiler in a million years :-) --Unconcerned 05:37, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed. They do look beautiful in that industrial way. Thanks for the link. —BenFrantzDale 05:52, 17 February 2006 (UTC)


 * The gas flare is a safety feature. If anything goes wrong inside the plant (a so-called trip) flammable and dangerous gases are led to the flare to be burned. Because it is not known when a trip occurs the flare must always be burning. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.211.156.107 (talk • contribs) 13 February 2007 (UTC)

SAP PP PI at Oil Refinery
Hi to all, I'm looking for someone who works in Oil Industry and ready to share how they work - particularly how they plan and schedule the production, whether with SAP, module PP_PI or with PIMs, or Excel and the most important question are they satisfied. I'll very appreciate any help, Thanks in advance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.90.237.2 (talk • contribs) 30 April 2006 (UTC)

GA nomination
This Good Article nomination is on hold for 7 days for the following reasons: Expand lead, see WP:LEAD, and there are too many short, stubby paragraphs and bullets. Rlevse 15:18, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Failed due to no response to concerns. Rlevse 23:12, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

The largest Refinery
The largest refinery in the world is located in Paraguana, Venezuela. Is called CRP (Complejo refinador paraguaná) and is conformed by two deep conversion refinerys. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.11.242.49 (talk • contribs) 16 August 2006 (UTC)


 * What is the capacity? CBreeze 17:15, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

i have a question
i rally want to know what is the most accurate theory that explains the origin of petroleum is it the biogenic one or the abiogenic one thnx —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lv4ever888h (talk • contribs) 07:13, 5 November 2006


 * The biogenic theory has the largest amount of supporting evidence but has weaknesses which alternative theories try to explain. (SEWilco 17:58, 5 November 2006 (UTC))

Garyville? Does the reader know where it is?
I'm just wondering if the typical reader knows where Garyville, LA is. I was going to just change the article to read (Marathon Oil's refinery in) Garyville, LA" instead of "Garyville", but thought I would ask for some feedback first. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rrrich7 (talk • contribs) 17 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, that refinery is in Louisiana and I will change the article to include that. (By the way, please sign messages posted on Discussion pages.) - mbeychok 18:49, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

PDVISA
I worked at a small refinery called Pralca in Santa Maria, Venezuela last August for the catalyst changeout as a US Contractor. Does PDVISA own/operate all refineries large and small in Venezuela? I mean I know that PDVISA is the the Governmental Petroleum Division for the Venezuelan Government and regulate all oil/refinery products and such. My question I guess is why don't they have the equipment and training needed to do specialty work like Catalyst changeouts in their refineries... We watched 5 sets of 2 man teams, work with a wrench and a hammer for 2 days try to open the bottom heads of the two Ethyline Oxide Reactors we were to unload/load. All they needed was an impact wrench and sockets and the job would have been done in about 6 hours.. Why do they import American Contractors? Or do they just prefer it that way, as Americans are specailly trained and do the job quicker? Just curious. user:kittykat1001 11:56, 17 March 2007 {Contractor}

Lights
Why do they have all the lights ? Is it safety?? Security??8.8.9.61 21:30, 10 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Refineries operate 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Obviously, lights are needed at night so that the plant operators can see what they are doing. Also, warning lights atop many of the taller structures are required for low flying aircraft. - mbeychok 22:34, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

The first refinery?
Interestingly the University of Warsaw credits Ignacy Łukasiewicz with building the first oil refinery also in 1856. The confusion came from the fact that it was called an oil distillery and not a refinery. In addition the refinery burned down soon after and was not rebuilt until several years later. Lukasiewicz was already refining oil from his oil wells two years before and built a commercial oil refinery in 1856. JRWalko 01:42, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

208.107.125.70 (talk) 21:14, 6 December 2012 (UTC)re: First Crude Distilling/Refining== see>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Kier

From the page...Salt wells and oil

By the 1840s, Kier's salt wells were becoming fouled with petroleum. At first, Kier simply dumped the useless oil into the nearby Pennsylvania Main Line Canal, but after an oil slick caught fire, he saw a way to profit from this otherwise worthless byproduct. With no formal training in science or chemistry, he began experimenting with several distillates of the crude oil along with a chemist from eastern Pennsylvania. He developed a substance he named "Rock Oil" and later "Seneca Oil". In 1848, he began packaging the substance as a patent medicine charging $0.50 per bottle.[3] He also produced petroleum butter (petroleum jelly) and sold it as a topical ointment.[4] Neither product proved to be a commercial success.

After further experimenting, he discovered an economical way to produce kerosene. Kerosene had been known for some time but was not widely produced and was considered to have little economic value. But at the time whale oil, the principal fuel for lamps in America, was becoming increasingly scarce and expensive.

Kier began selling the kerosene, named "Carbon Oil", to local miners in 1851. He also invented a new lamp to burn his product.[1] Kier never obtained a patent for his developments and many other inventors and businessmen would go on to improve upon his work yielding huge fortunes. Even so, Kier's income at the time exceeded US$40,000 per year, a huge sum for the time.

Kier established America's first oil refinery in Pittsburgh on Seventh avenue near Grant Street, in 1853.[1] A marker identifying the site read's "Kier Refinery – Using a five-barrel still, Samuel M. Kier erected on this site about 1854 the first commercial refinery to produce illuminating oil from petroleum. He used crude oil from salt wells at Tarentum."[5] Kier consulted with Edwin Drake concerning Drake's experimental oil well[6] and the first shipment of oil from Drake's well went to Kier's refinery.[citation needed]

433,000 barrels/day certainly NOT the largest refinery
It's not even the largest in the USA - I've updated that paragraph. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Commutator (talk • contribs) 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Groups of refinery products
Hello! I added some info about groups of products to the Major products section since these terms are used sometimes (maybe they shouldnt), for example in Brent Crude article. If needed i can provide source information. Arinnian 10:28, 12 July 2007 (UTC) Arinnian 04:02, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, can you please provide source information, either in the article or here, if you are not sure how format the reference properly; editors with Wikipedia experience can insert the reference into the article once the source information is provided. H Padleckas 06:02, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Henry, there are literally dozens of ways of categorizing the major products from an oil refinery. The current categorization in this article as recently edited by Arinnian and yourself is one of the better categorizations. If you want references, I believe one or both of these would work:
 * Refining Britain's Fuels: Glossary (scroll to Distillates)
 * Refining: Simple Distllation.
 * - mbeychok 23:07, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Milt, thank you. H Padleckas 02:44, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The only English source i know of yet is a book by William Leffler, Petroleum Refining for the nontechical person. There's a chapter called Distillate fuels.
 * Thank you for adding the reference. H Padleckas 16:18, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I made some changes there. I think it looks better now. I think that vacuum residuum isn't actually a distillate right? And also I wanted to ask - are wiktionary links considered external? Arinnian 04:46, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Residuum is not a distillate; that's correct. In my previous edit, I should have said "Distillation fractions ..." instead of "Distillates ...".  In my latest edit, I added the qualifying word "Most ..."  since a few refinery products do not clearly fall into one of your three groups, for example sulfur.  Hydrogen is an intermediate product formed in processing units downstream of the distillation(s) and is not readily classified into one of the three groups.  Petrochemicals and other final oil refinery products are often formed in units other than distillation in the refinery, often from mixtures of different distillation fractions.
 * Wiktionary links are external to Wikipedia, but are still part of Wikimedia, which includes Wikibooks, Wiktionary, Wikinews, etc. H Padleckas 16:09, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

It would be nice to have a section on how refineries affect the stock market.

My particular questions of interest are: Why does more refinery activity reduce the price of oil per barrel? Is that a short term affect on price which mean in the long term it actually causes the oil price to go up?
 * Increased supply in face of stable demand will lower the price of a commodity. Deatonjr (talk) 19:10, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Ancillary units
There are three items under the title "Common process units..." that ought to be classed under a different title, say under "Ancillary units" as they are not really processing anything: I propose to put these under a new title unless somebody strongly objects.LouisBB 23:20, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Liquified gas storage units for propane and similar gaseous fuels at pressure sufficient to maintain in liquid form. These are usually spherical vessels or bullets (horizontal vessels with rounded ends.
 * Storage tanks for crude oil and finished products, usually cylindrical, with some sort of vapor emission control and surrounded by an earthen berm to contain spills.
 * Utility units such as cooling towers for circulating cooling water, boiler plants for steam generation, instrument air systems for pneumatically operated control valves and an electrical substation.

SMALL REFENIREY FOR CAPACITY 500 TOMM IN DAY FOR KURDISTAN IRAQ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.90.19.222 (talk) 10:04, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Factory outlet gasoline?
This is probably a silly question, but do any refineries operate "factory outlet" gas stations where you could buy gas at a discount because it wouldn't have to be sent out by pipeline? Wnt (talk) 18:24, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Capacity to refine heavy sour crude?
Recently, both Libya and Saudi Arabia have stated that the oil market is "over-supplied". In Saudi Arabia's case, I am not aware of any track record of major dishonesty. With the oil price on the Nymex futures market at $140, this seems strange. I am therefore theorising that the extra oil they can supply is too heavy and sour for currently spare refining capacity. Is this a good theory? If so, then how long will it take to create the capability to refine lower-quality crude? New Thought (talk) 07:28, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Financial Risk Management, Critical processes requiring strict internal controls
Hi, I'm financial internal auditor and wish to learn what are the high Risk areas, critical processes and internal controls to be considered from FINANCIAL perspective. Generally we break down entire process into detailed steps and identify what risks could arise in these processes, thereafter, we devise mitigation plan to plug those loopholes. I'll appreciate if anyone could recommend good books/ websites, study material. Any guidance is welcome. irshadfca@gmail.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.227.59.208 (talk) 10:42, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Petroleum Refining for the Finance Person
please guide me about some good reading material to understand entire petroleum business specially what are stakes of finance professional to understand about upstream through downstream petroleum business irshadfca@gmail.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.227.59.208 (talk) 10:55, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

chemical engineering
I undid the removal of this article from the chemical engineering category.--Work permit (talk) 05:34, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Why? I think that this is a superfluous category because the categorie "Chemical Processes" already belongs to the category "Chemical engineering". Why adding a main category when a subcategory is already present? And, by the way, "Distillation" belongs to "Chemical Processes" but in this case "Chemical processes" seems a better choice because a refinery does not do only distillation but also cracking, gas treating, and a dozen other processes. Therefore I would also remove this somewhat misleading category. --WilfriedC (talk) 15:46, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * That's a reasonable explanation, thanks. I'm ok with deleting the entry--Work permit (talk) 02:51, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

The first refinery
Just found an interesting mention in another website that the worlds first oil refinery was built in my home town of Bathgate, West Lothian, Scotland in 1848 (see http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/bathgate/bathgate/index.html). Mentions of this can be found in Wiki on the James Young page, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Young_(Scottish_chemist), this says that the works were completed in 1851 although the business started in 1848.

I'm going to do some more research and see if I can get some more hard links before I attempt any editing of a page. I've never done this before. Some assistance would be appreciated.

86.131.158.53 (talk) 02:48, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your suggestion. When you believe an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the  link at the top. The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to).Walter Siegmund (talk) 22:36, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Oil refinery doesn't discuss the amount of energy needed to accomplish the refining process. This would be valuable. From what little I know, the cheapest products are often burned to provide heat for some of the processes. It might be valuable to provide the amount of energy used rather than trying to estimate a variable cost component of the process.

Donald P. Martin 19:55, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Removal of content on Standard Oil added by HISTMichelleS253
I removed the following content on Standard Oil added by in accordance with WP:UNDUE and Globalize/USA. A brief summary may be appropriate for this article along with content on other countries and oil companies. However, I think this content is better suited for Standard Oil of Ohio and closely related articles. Manual of Style (summary style) may provide relevant guidance, also. Walter Siegmund (talk) 01:01, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

"In 1879, an American oil refining business called, Rockefeller, Andrews and Flagler, was abolished and replaced with a newer, more successful company: Standard Oil. Standard Oil had the same principle owners that Rockefeller, Andrews and Flagler had, give or take a few business associates: one of which being John D. Rockefeller's brother, William. Standard Oil monopolized quickly and took America by storm. Although John D Rockefeller's name was, and still is more commonly known, it is said that, Henry Morrison Flagler, also known as the 'Builder of Florida,' was the brain behind the booming oil refining business. According Edwin Lefevre in, “Flager and Florida,” from Everybody’s Magazine, XXII (February, 1910) p. 183, “When John D. Rockefeller was asked if the Standard Oil company was the result of his thinking, he answered, “No, sir. I wish I had the brains to think of it. It was Henry M. Flagler.”

Henry Flagler dabbled in various businesses aside from building up infrastructure in Florida. When he envisioned successes in the oil industry, he and Rockefeller started building their fortune in refining oil in Cleveland, Ohio. Cleveland became very well-known for oil refining, as, 'More and more crude oil was shipped from the oil regions to Cleveland for the refining process because of transportation facilites and the aggressiveness of the refiners there. It was due largely to the efforts of Henry M. Flagler and John D. Rockefeller.' Flagler and Rockefeller worked hard for their company to achieve such prominence. Henry explained: “We worked night and day, making good oil as cheaply as possible and selling it for all we could get.” Not only did Flagler and Rockefeller's Standard Oil company become well known in Ohio, they expanded to other states, as well as gained additional capital in purchasing smaller oil refining companies across the nation. According to Allan Nevins in, John D Rockefeller, (p 292), “Standard Oil was born as a big enterprise, it had cut its teeth as a partnership and was now ready to plunge forward into a period of greater expansion and development. It soon was doing one tenth of all the petroleum business in the United States. Besides its two refineries and a barrel plant in Cleveland, it possessed a fleet of tank cars and warehouses in the oil regions as well as warehouses and tanks in New York.”

By 1892, Standard Oil had a monopoly over all oil refineries in the United States. In an overall calculation of America's oil refineries' assets and capital, Standard Oil surpassed all. Standard Oil's combined assets equalled approximately $42,882,650.00 (U.S) from: Indiana, Kentucky, New Jersey, New York and Ohio. As well as the highest capitalization, totaling $26,000,000 (U.S). The history of American oil refining begins with Henry Morrison Flagler, and his business associate and friend, John D. Rockefeller, as they built the biggest, most prosperous and monopolizing oil empire of their time: Standard Oil."


 * Maybe this information could be added to the article History of the petroleum industry in the United States. H Padleckas (talk) 04:41, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

"first" oil refinery
The History section of the article begins:
 * The first oil refinery in the world was built in Bathgate, Scotland, by Scottish chemist James Young in 1951.

James Young did build a refinery (in 1851, not 1951) to produce illuminating oil, but one that used not petroleum, but cannel coal, a variety of oil shale. Since it did not refine petroleum does it belong here? Plazak (talk) 19:11, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Rationale for removing edit by 198.183.141.65 on Oct 23, 2012
The Garco Energy refinery was not a new refinery built in 2008:


 * It was rebuilt from a topping plant destroyed in a fire. See the Garco refinery website at Garco Energy: About Us which states: The Garco Energy Refinery was rebuilt in 2008 from the remnants of a natural gas topping plant.
 * The Garco Energy refinery could process 3,000 barrels of crude oil per calender day or about 4,000 barrels per operating day which indicates that it operated only about 75% of the year. At that very small size, it is almost a misnomer to call it an oil refinery.

For those reasons, I have removed the sentence added by 198.183.141.65. mbeychok (talk) 00:10, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Reasons for removing the good faith edit by JimmyCraig
Most articles have three sections at the bottom of the articles entitled: "See also", "References" and "External links". The "See also" section is for internal links to other relevant Wikipedia articles not discussed in the main body of the article. The "References" section is for listing references (such as books, journal articles, or other internet articles) that validate or document certain specific parts of the article's main body. The "External links" section lists external websites on the internet that are relevant to the article.

The edit by JimmyCraig was removed because: mbeychok (talk) 15:48, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Merox units were already listed and covered in the article's main body section entitled "Common process units found in a refinery" as well as linked to the internal Wikipedia article entitled "Merox".
 * Because the edit was misplaced and resulted in removing the entire "See also" section.

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Heading formatting issue
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== An oil refinery or petroleum refinery is an industrial process plant where petroleum (crude oil) is transformed and refined into useful products such as gasoline (petrol), diesel fuel, asphalt base, fuel oils, heating oil, kerosene, liquefied petroleum gas and petroleum naphtha.[1][2][3] Petrochemicals feedstock like ethylene and propylene can also be produced directly by cracking crude oil without the need of using refined products of crude oil such as naphtha.[4][5] The crude oil feedstock has typically been processed by an oil production plant. There is usually an oil depot at or near an oil refinery for the storage of incoming crude oil feedstock as well as bulk liquid products. In 2020, the total capacity of global refineries for crude oil was about 101.2 million barrels per day.[6] ==

L L 45.117.3.9 (talk) 15:17, 13 February 2023 (UTC)