Talk:Ol' Dirty Bastard/Archives/2014

Removed stupid trivia
"* Died exactly a year berore pro wrestler Eddie Guerrero." Who cares? He shares the date with about 30 other people should we list all of them aswell?? Removed as it is irrelevent and not helpful triva —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alembic (talk • contribs) 05:40, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Most of the trivia is stupid, without a source, and should be removed. On a side note, this article seems to express the idea that ODB was somewhat a genius to the genre of rap, which apparently a lot of people agree with... my question is, how, and why? I see the genius in the production by Rza, and the genius in the lyrical abilities of many of them, mostly Raekwon and Gza, but I just don't see what all the talk is about! ODB is not the first person to rap off beat, or create crazy aliases, or have such a strange flow and rhyming cadence. Actually I can think of a person who did ALL of those things BEFORE dirty: Keith Thorton. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.118.192.212 (talk) 03:31, 22 February 2008 (UTC)


 * The user above me means Keith Matthew Thornton, aka Kool Keith.
 * Wikizen (talk) 21:40, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Been Around
Wow's he's been w/ ICP, Wu Tang, in Ghetto Superstar and in a song for a South Park episode. What is the name of that South Park Episode, the article fails to say that..


 * Chef Aid, IIRC. He performs with DMX, Fuzzbubble, Ozzy Osbourne, and the Crystal Method on a song called "Nowhere to Run", which is available on Chef Aid: The South Park Album.

New Album After A Son Unique?
It says that ODB will have a new album in 2007 called "True Story." Any proof?

somewhat related - the sentence "He also managed to record a new album, originally scheduled to be released through Dame Dash Music Group in 2004; it remains unreleased." seems out of date - isn't "a son unique" this album, released in 2009 (as noted several lines down)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.17.155.149 (talk) 18:57, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

NPOV?
With all due respects to the late ODB, I must question the neutrality of this article. It claims everything he did was revolutionary and spectacular. I'm not judging here, but I think it's a little thick at times. --Feitclub 03:02, Nov 15, 2004 (UTC)


 * See if you can find a review that knocks ODB as a no-talent wannabe and we can add it for balance. --Alberuni 03:04, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * The article doesn't claim everything he did was revolutionary or spectacular. However, Ol' Dirty Bastard was an innovator in terms of style, flow and delivery.  If you really listen to Hip Hop and have an ear for it, you'll understand.  He is often credited as the first emcee to 'sing' his raps, and while this cannot be verified without actually searching through previous hip hop records, you'd be hard pressed to find a professional review about his early material that doesn't at least mention his bizarre yet unique style.  Some people go so far as to call him a genius, in terms of delivery, but that again is just opinion.  Ol' Dirty also influenced the styles of many emcees who came after him, in terms of energy and concepts.  Read the Wu-Tang Manuel, that's one of the many sources that quotes Busta Rhymes as essentially saying "After I listened to "Return To The 36 Chambers, I knew how to make my ow album."  Something along those lines, I can't think of any other sources besides the Wu-Tang Manuel, though.  - [Ford G]

The last paragraph in the "legal troubles" section doesn't seem to fit; it says he was released from prison and signed a record deal. No trouble there.
 * please sign all of your comments folks. include a tilde (&tilde;) and it will place your name. Thanks! Alkivar 15:57, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I'm going to have to agree with Feitclub, it does seem a bit over done Lenore

how so? Ford gave a detailed explanation, you cant just make a general broad statement like that without backing ._. --Whimsickal 15:09, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Discography
Please dont place a ranking next to a discography listing. Those belong on album pages as the record may have peaked on many different charts in different places, Billboard #2, Soundscan #5 etc... as well as Best Album, Best Rock Album, Best Top 40 album, Best Urban Album etc... We would clutter up the page listing each ranking. Alkivar 23:49, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

There are at least two albums listed here that have their own pages, but the album-pages only have the track listings. If someone who knows the music feels like writing a review of the album, that would be kewl. For an example, see Ashlee Simpson's Autobiography or dredge's El Cielo. SatyrTN 02:06, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Unverified Quote
can someone point to a source backing the following claim in regards to his drug bust:
 * He reportedly asked the arresting officers to "make the crack disappear".

Alkivar 22:27, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * The quote should probably be, "Can you make the rocks disappear?"   . --Alberuni 22:33, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * yes but the articles say "he REPORTEDLY asked" which since we all know the media likes to portray people negatively could be ENTIRELY false. There is no copy of the police report online. So there is no way to verify if this quote was in fact made, merely heresay, or outright fiction. Alkivar 22:48, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * How about if we just cite the report and source the attribution? Like this: After his arrest for possession of crack cocaine, ODB reportedly asked the police to "make the rocks disappear". During a court hearing appearances, he once called a female prosecutor a "sperm donor."

--Alberuni 23:22, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Article title
He is overwhelmingly known as Ol' Dirty Bastard. I don't understand why this was moved. Tuf-Kat 18:53, Nov 22, 2004 (UTC)
 * agreed, there was no consensus sought or reached regarding this move. Alkivar 02:09, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * The move was made by editor User:Ed Poor who has a long history of semi-vandalistic abuse on Wikipedia with his outlandish, obnoxious and POV edits, such as  . His spelling is exceedingly poor and he has even created new pages with the incorrect spelling of the subject's name, such as Sam Miller-Eisentein whose name is actually "Samuel Miller Eisenstein",.
 * Technically, I believe this page should be Russell Tyrone Jones (assuming that was his legal name) with redirects from all his stage names because ODB was just a stage name. What is the consensus opinion though? --Alberuni 02:59, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * well before it got moved to Russell Jones i created redirects for ALL of his other stage names to point to Ol' Dirty Bastard. So if we decide to move it again, we're gonna need to change all of those redirects. Personally i think it belongs at his most well known name, Ol' Dirty Bastard. But i guess wikipedia standard is to go by real name? Alkivar 04:59, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure that is the standard and, if it is, it doesn't look like the standard is followed.See Madonna and Cher, for instance. Based on these two, the standard appears to be "most widely recognized name" with redirects from legal name. --Alberuni 05:34, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * The standard is always the most widely recognized name, in this case Ol' Dirty Bastard. Tuf-Kat 14:03, Nov 23, 2004 (UTC)


 * Then I am moving it back to Ol' Dirty Bastard as of now. Added to administrative move list. Alkivar 05:10, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * Moved. I have to leave now, so when the database catches up, can someone make sure the correct version is reverted to if need be (in case the blanked version is the most recent) Dysprosia 05:40, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Page move
(from WP:RM)

Russell Jones &rarr; Ol' Dirty Bastard

 * article was moved by vandal to a misspelled Russel Jones we then corrected spelling to Russell Jones however there was never any original consensus to moving the page away from the name he is best known for Ol' Dirty Bastard. Alkivar 05:14, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Objection. Ol' Dirty Bastard should re-direct to the name Russell Jones.    Whenever the media reported ODB, it was attached to his real name, just like Eminem is referred to as Marshall Mathers often in media coverage. Besides, there is no reason for two separate articles with the same information.  That is grounds for deletion of one or the other.  There's no reason to request a move, when neither is locked by a redirect. (But a redirect must be). Back to issue, sure "Ol' Dirty Bastard" was a stage name, but it's not the only stage name he was known as when you look at the information in the article.  Does he need a page for every one of his stage names? Including one he shares with mafia boss Joseph Bonanno (and we don't need a disamb. page for "Joe Bananas")?   I don't think so. Reverse it, ODB should lead to Russell Jones.&mdash;ExplorerCDT 21:35, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Interesting that Madonna is often referred to by her birth name throughout the news in the 1980s, yet she is on here as Madonna. ODB was most often referred to as Ol' Dirty Bastard. When MTV news broke in to typical broadcast to announce his death it was "Ol' Dirty Bastard died today" not as Russell Jones. Alkivar 19:48, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Archived FAC Discussion
Strikethroughs are non actionable, or deemed resolved by me Alkivar 04:35, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Self-nom. I mostly rewrote this, from its original text but did not begin it. Content is concise, although could probably stand to have more on his musical career. As it stands now musical career and legal troubles are about the same length. Since he has recently passed on I figure this would be a good time. Alkivar 15:35, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Comments: Looks quite good. 1) Many paragraphs, and all of those in the "Legal Troubles" section, start with "In "; it'd be nice to reword a few of these. 2) Any chance we can refer to him as "Jones" rather than "ODB" or "Dirty"? At least some of the time? &mdash; Matt 18:00, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * That would be more encyclopedic. The title of the page should not change however, since it is certainly what he is beter known as, and more often refered to as. [[User:Sam Spade|Sam Spade Arb Com election]] 18:05, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Granted that it would be more encyclopedic, however NO ONE, except for his family and personal friends, referred to him by his given name. Check any of the obits (most dont even mention his real name), check any news articles (again most dont have his real name), he is known as the "ol' dirty bastard" by virtually everyone. I have gone back through and changed some of the ODB's to something else. Alkivar 21:10, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * Object - seems a bit sketchy.--Crestville 18:14, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * sketchy? is there something in particular your objecting to? or is it simply you dislike the man? to quote from above "All objections must give a specific rationale that can be addressed" Alkivar 21:10, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * Good article, but one thing was confusing. The "Life and career" section makes references to his legal problems ("with a court-ordered probation hanging over his head", etc.), but I don't know the specifics until I read the "Legal troubles" section below that. Is there any way these two sections can be merged? Light object for now. [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 18:21, Nov 20, 2004 (UTC)
 * yeah i'm aware of this fact. Originally the two subjects were merged into one long section, but I felt it made more sense to seperate his career from his legal troubles. Is there something you would recommend to help fix this? Alkivar 21:10, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * I would much prefer to have the two sections be merged once again. [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 17:57, Nov 21, 2004 (UTC)
 * Object. 1) I don't like the constant "ODB"s either. Perhaps they might be appropriate when discussing his musical career, but they certainly aren't in the sections on his illegal activities. 2) His real name should come first, and his aliases should be listed as such. 3) It's very short for an FAC, and doesn't have very much detail. 4) Too many paragraphs are too short. 5) Apart from in the "legal troubles" section itself, his criminal career seem to be glossed over. From reading the introduction, for instance, you'd have no idea how serious some of the crimes he committed were. Proteus (Talk) 18:55, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * 1) see above, I have corrected this.
 * 2) I think "Ol' Dirty Bastard" should come first as its what he is best known as. His real name is still within the first sentance.
 * 3) It has more detail than the VH1 and MTV biography pages on the man. I think that its got enough content to warrant FAC. ANY article can always use more content, and I am sure this one will grow with time. I'm sure shorter articles have been considered and approved as well. Length is not a necessary consideration according to What is a featured article, however this article is comprehensive and "does not omit any major facts or details".
 * 4) see my comment #3. unless you have a specific objection to the timeline formatting I consider this a non-issue.
 * 5) his career is "glossed over" ??? We mention specifically all of his offenses, we link to their definitions, anything more than that would be POV.
 * Alkivar 21:10, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * Good summary of his recording career and such, but I think that this article needs more information on this rapper's impact and his criminal career. Object for now. Andre ( talk )A| 23:59, Nov 21, 2004 (UTC)
 * OBJECT - He is now old news. Mfecane 04:14, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * This objection is inactionable and therefore invalid. &rarr;Raul654 04:51, Nov 27, 2004 (UTC)

what the jam does this mean
"a rap sheet that reads not so much like a jailhouse sitcom as a quixotic Spanish novel." what kind of phrasing and comparison is that? i might remove it outright, because i don't know what it is trying to express. SECProto 18:22, 3 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't know what that's trying to express, but it's almost certainly plagiarized from allmusic.com, as a lot of this article appears to be. From the allmusic page on ODB: "One of the founding members of the Wu-Tang Clan, who recorded some of the most influential hip-hop of the '90s, Ol' Dirty Bastard was the loose cannon of the group, both on record and off. Delivering his outrageously profane, free-associative rhymes in a distinctive half-rapped, half-sung style, ODB came across as a mix of gonzo comic relief and not-quite-stable menace. Unfortunately, after launching a successful solo career, his personal life began to exhibit those same qualities. ODB spent much of 1998 and 1999 getting arrested with ridiculous, comical frequency, building up a rap sheet that now reads not so much like a soap opera as an epic Russian novel." The first paragraph of the Wikipedia page is nearly identical. Kurivaim 05:05, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

I was going to suggest allmusic.com as a good source for information because their biography seemed pretty concise. I though Pop Matters also did a good obit, although it is more of an opinion. The-bus 14:47, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Clean-Up Tag

 * As far as I can see, there was no discussion about putting a clean-up tag on this article. I cleaned up a few things, so I'm going to take off the tag.  Trackstand 00:34, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Problem with first paragraph of "Death" section
"At first, his legal troubles and odd behavior made Jones 'something of a folk hero', according to The New Yorker writer Michael Agger.[5] However, Huey writes that 'it was difficult for observers to tell whether ODB's wildly erratic behavior was the result of serious drug problems or genuine mental instability ... the possibility that his continued antics were at least partly the result of conscious image-making disappeared as time wore on.'"


 * Who is Huey? 138.243.129.4 00:38, 6 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Music writer Steve Huey. His name is noted many times within the References section.  In any case, the page has since been corrected. Tdowg1 (talk) 03:13, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Problem with the Ol' Dirty Chinese Restaurant Alias
It's true that this was in a chappelle skit, but it was nothing other than a joke in reference to different races of people claiming celebrities for themselves. Noone ever knew ODB as this name and he never went under it/used it as an 'alias'.

Not Dead Edit
Bio box has a comment besides "Death" Saying something like "He ain't dead, he faked his death." Should be changed as soon as possible. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.54.214.51 (talk) 22:13, 2 March 2007 (UTC).

Died the same day as...
...Coil founder John Balance. Who cares? Unrelated, different genre, and nobody cared when it happened. I doubt 1/100 people know who this random guy is, he got zero coverage, even the local rock stations carried ODB's death over that guy. If ODB died the same day as a sitting president, a fellow rapper, a close friend/relative, or a spectacular event it would be worth noting, that guy is irrelevant. What the hell is Coil? I read the linked Wiki and I still don't know who this guy is or why I should care. I think someone was just proud they made the connection, should be deleted. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.161.18.105 (talk) 23:42, 13 March 2007 (UTC).

Bix Box of Chili
When was ODB ever referred to as Big Box of Chili? I can find no evidence of this, despite how awesome it would be. Irondavy 04:49, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Crack Addiction
Nothing about his crack addiction is mentioned. He was probably the biggest crackhead ever. He had the funds to support it, he rapped about it several times.

The redirect to this page should be replaced by a disambiguation. ODB is an abbreviation for other things besides this person. Madgenberyl (talk) 16:45, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

The man was not a crackhead, listen to his words more carefully unless you joke my man he is the soul of kindness and intelligence he know what he on about peace smoke w it isn't what you call crack it comes from love ODB was not an addict whatever that means. Also unrelated but he really was Jesus. --F

Cause of Death
There is no mention of the cause of death, merely that a 35 year old man collapsed and was pronounced dead within an hour. Can anyone add to this? 98.249.7.33 (talk) 03:26, 20 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Never mind, the cause of death is listed in the opening, but not under the "Death" section. Perhaps someone would like to append it? 98.249.7.33 (talk) 03:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

semi lock
it seems this page has went through alot of vandalism(nicknames,deaths,songs etc.) i think we should semilock this page--TheDeathKingTheGodfather 05:42, 19 April 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thedeathking (talk • contribs)

Edit request from Vdn123, 25 February 2011
Vdn123 (talk) 06:48, 25 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. —C.Fred (talk) 07:03, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 174.253.248.107, 7 April 2011
Somebody needs to review this page, and edit both the spelling and the obvious and unnecessary profanity. The person who edited it most recently must have felt the need to use nigger whenever they referred to a crime perpetrated by a black individual, and in reference to virtually any action typically associated with low income minorities. Additionally, I don't think russell jones died from an overdose of "perception kentucky fried chicken." Please edit this filth.

174.253.248.107 (talk) 14:36, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting wait.svg Already done. — Bility (talk) 15:36, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Children
I found a reference that says ODB had 7 children, not 13 as the article currently says. You can find the link here:. I believe this should be revised unless anyone has any conflicting sources. Alcovia (talk) 22:13, 19 July 2011 (UTC)alcovia