Talk:Operation Banquet

Operation Saracen and Operation Banquet
Thank you for taking an interest in the article Operation Saracen and Operation Banquet. I have not heard of Operation Saracen before and I am wondering what your sources are - unreferenced material will have to be removed. Can you please explain the text "The overall plan was initially known as Operation Saracen, from Spring 1942." as I am pretty sure that is not what you meant to write - Operation Banquet clearly started in 1940. Happy editing, Gaius Cornelius (talk) 13:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I added the reference, if you want to check it. Maybe the author of the source got his knickers in a twist, but he has proved quite reliable up to now. The reference cited in the original article did not specifically mention that BANQUET started in 1940, just that plans were formulated.Petebutt (talk) 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I dont have that book. What does the reference acually say about Operation Saracen and Operation Banquet? Gaius Cornelius (talk) 08:04, 19 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Verbatim:-


 * The Advanced Training Squadrons of all day fighter Operational Training units would have 500 added to their numbers to become reserve Squadrons if plans under the code name 'Operation Saracen', made in Spring 1942 to counter a German invasion, were put into operation. Plans were revised under the code name 'Banquet' in order to accomodate additional resources. Records indicate the titles were used by several 'Operational Training Units' and '3 Tactical Excercise Unit' until at least May 1944 for standing patrols, convoy escort duties, conversion training and night flying.


 * followed by lists of squadron numbers against OTU numbers and advanced bases allocated12:42, 19 November 2010 (UTC)Petebutt (talk)

Thanks for the quote. I have had a pretty good hunt for some alternative source for this, but I cannot find anything about an Operation Saracen. Besides which the dates seem to be all wrong, original documents are quite clear that Banquet was initiated in 1940 and the invasion crisis was really over by 1942. I suspect that Saracen was some relatively local plan to implement the requirements of Banquet and it was later revised by changes to Banquet. There is little here that can be said with any confidence about any Operation Saracen and consequently, I cannot see a justification for changing the title of this article - it should changed back to the original. Gaius Cornelius (talk) 09:29, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I have to agree, but maybve some reference to possible confusion and lack opf reliable data.Petebutt (talk) 09:33, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes, let's go with that. Gaius Cornelius (talk) 14:48, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

The numbers involved in 1940
I found this on the Axis History Forum:

"Training Command Operational order No1, issued on May 23rd 1940, for the command in time of declared national emergency (invasion) to reinforce Bomber Command. As originally devised, the overall scheme called ZZ and known as "The Julius Caesar Plan" by Army Co-Op, but was renamed Operation Banquet on May 27th, when the Dep. Director of Home Operations was advised that 663 Tiger Moths could be mustered for service. A plan was approved on June 12th 1940 for the 663 Tiger Moths to be fitted with 8 Cooper or 'F' type bombs of 20lb or 25lb. The bombs were to be mounted on racks on the underfloor of the Tiger Moth. Some 1500 were ordered and were to be distributed among the Elementary Flying Schools."

This provides some interesting additional detail, if I can find the source, but 663 aircraft??? The Wiki article only mentions 350, does that mean that there was another banquet plan to hit the invasion fleet?Sitalkes (talk) 00:18, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

CE
Did a cheeky little ce and tidied prose, moved cites to the end of sentences for flow auto ed and isbn-13'd the references. Rv as desired Keith-264 (talk) 12:35, 21 November 2017 (UTC)