Talk:Orthodox Trotskyism

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I disagree with the recent changes. Fair enough to mention philosophy, and Lenin and Marx, but why remove that they also claim to adhere more closely to the positions of the early Fourth International? I've reinserted this.

Mentioning that the SWP broke with Trotskyism "altogether" in the 1980s implies that the move to the USFI was a step away from Trotskyism. Fine, that's the ICFI position, but it needs to be attributed.

Thirdly, it's highly controversial to say that the British SWP borrowed a lot from Shachtman. I think there's a lot of truth in it (in the past tense), but they strongly deny it, and it needs a strong source.

Finally, the section on In Defense of Marxism is completely off-topic, so I've removed it. Warofdreams talk 01:29, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

It seems like the last part of this (about the Cliffite critiques of "Orthodox Trotskyism") has been written by IST operatives. And come on people, I'm a former Trot myself. We all know how these people are about their cliquish rivalries and what not. Should be flagged for NPOV and worked on. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.170.166.180 (talk) 00:57, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

ICL isn't described as Orthodox
I've removed the following section. ''Another group that is commonly regarded as Orthodox Trotskyist is the International Commnunist League (Fourth Internationalist). The ICL was one of the few if only left groups to hail the Soviet Red Army in Afghanistan and to oppose the Iranian Revolution. It gave unconditional military defense to the former Soviet Union until the 1991/1992 had completley strangled the Soviet Workers' State. It had also given unconditional military defense to the workers states in Eastern Europe. It today gives unconditional military defense to the remaining four deformed workers states in China, Vietnam, Cuba and North Korea.'' The SL and ICL have never described themselves as orthodox: they criticise the notion of Orthodoxy as sterile, which is a view that perhaps most Trotskyists would agree with. I can't find any serious reference calling them Orthodo.x --Duncan 08:49, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I fully agree. It might be worth mentioning their position in the article, as I have heard them mistakenly described as Orthodox Trotskyists in the past. Warofdreams talk 22:56, 5 November 2006 (UTC)