Talk:Overpopulation of domestic pets

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 18 August 2021 and 16 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Clasonp.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 05:57, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

POV tag
This concerns POV tag cleanup. Whenever an POV tag is placed, it is necessary to also post a message in the discussion section stating clearly why it is thought the article does not comply with POV guidelines, and suggestions for how to improve it. This permits discussion and consensus among editors. From WP tag policy: '''Drive-by tagging is strongly discouraged. The editor who adds the tag must address the issues on the talk page, pointing to specific issues that are actionable within the content policies, namely Wikipedia:Neutral point of view, Wikipedia:Verifiability, Wikipedia:No original research and Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons. Simply being of the opinion that a page is not neutral is not sufficient to justify the addition of the tag. Tags should be added as a last resort.''' Better yet, edit the topic yourself with the improvements. This statement is not a judgement of content, it is only a cleanup of frivolously and/or arbitrarily placed tags. No discussion, no tag.Jjdon (talk) 22:58, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Tag
The problem of overpopulation of domestic animals is grossly overrated, and is rather a myth than a real problem. It is solely based on shelter statistics. Statistics show that certain numbers of domestic animals are euthanized, and animal groups refer to these statistics. However, editors do not explain, that these euthanized millions are about 5% of population, and do not explain that a lot of people bring their severely ill or very old animal to the shelter to "put him down". This is a substantial add-on to statistics. 70+ millions dogs in USA, some of them die every second, here or there, that's what happen to them all eventually, and new dogs are also born every second, they replace those that are gone, and that's the course of Nature. Majority of animals that are euthanized in shelters are not suitable as pets due to incurable illness, or temperament issues that make them dangerous or extremely problematic. Another misconception is about purebred dogs in shelters. Majority of those find new homes via breed rescue teams. Shelter volunteers seldom able to recognize breed of dog. Afru (talk) 18:20, 30 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Afru, could you provide citations for your assertions? The main article has numerous citations, and appears to be factual and balanced. Without providing citations for your objection, your own neutrality is suspect. Thank you. MusicPapa (talk) 18:20, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Controversy
I've noted that there are controversies regarding pet overpopulation. This should probably be expanded into a section.Wolf4NK (talk) 11:05, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Adding controversy section, & related edits
I'm adding a controversy section & doing some cleanup of other matters.

In the first paragraph, after numbers of animals euthanized, this statement is made: "This is sometimes attributed to the fact that most shelters do not have the resources for the long-term care of these animals." The source for this statement is "Pets by the numbers", HSUS, January 30, 2014. While the source provides estimates of numbers of animals, it does not provide any reasons given for euthanizing. I'm going to take this comment out.

Further, the numbers given of 5-7 million estimated animals going into shelters is 6-8 million per this source, so I'm going to use this source. The statistics have their own challenges noted in the source, as there is no real central place for keeping track of these statistics. I researched this a bit more and found even more issues with reliability concerns. I'm going to report on this in a new section on stats for the U.S.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Canadianknowledgelover (talk • contribs) 06:31, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Dog population section
There is now a section on Dog Population with some statistics offered without any real discussion of what they stand for. They are taken from a 1997 article found here: http://www.naiaonline.org/naia-library/articles/are-there-too-many-dogs-and-cats/. I found a citation for the article that the stats came from: Gary J. Patronek and Andrew N Rowan, "Determining Dog and Cat Numbers and Population Dynamics", Anthrozoos 8, No. 4, (1995), pp. 199-205. Sounds like it has more than dog stats and would be a good article to look at, although already a bit dated. More serious reference though than what we have otherwise. Unable to access the article online.

This is the current text under "Dog population":


 * "The National Animal Interest Alliance in a pet overpopulation article discussed an extensive dog population statistical research led by Gary Patronek of Purdue University School of Veterinary Medicine and Andrew Rowan of Tufts University School of Veterinary Medicine. The comprehensive data compilation from multiple sources such as the American Kennel Club, the American Veterinary Medical Association, the Humane Society of the US, the American Humane Association and others provided the following statistics:


 * 52 million dogs live in 35 million US households
 * Approximately 6.2 million dogs die each year
 * 3.8 million die in homes, veterinary hospitals and hit by cars
 * 2.4 million die in shelters


 * "They also provided the following information about animal shelters:


 * Approximately 4 million dogs enter shelters each year
 * Approximately 2.2 million are stray dogs
 * Approximately 600,000 are reclaimed by their owners (leaving 1.6 million strays available for adoption)"

I think the intro info about who did the study goes on a bit. Is it relevant to talk about other reasons that animals die than in shelters? I think the idea of overpopulation is that shelters can't handle them and have to kill them. So I think we have to stick to that. I'd rather find out what else is said about cats too. But for now I'm going to pare it down and talk about dogs and shelter killings.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Canadianknowledgelover (talk • contribs) 06:31, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Effects on animals section --> Reasons for relinquishment section
There's a statement here about the controversy, stating this: "Pet overpopulation is a controversial topic, with both the causes of the problem and the existence of the problem being the subject of dispute. ."

I've dealt with controversy already on its own section. This does provide two interesting articles. I added references to them in the controversy section.

The earlier paragraph here talks about reasons for relinquishment rather than whatever might be meant by effects on animals of this overpopulation concept. I'll just rename the title. The section can use some work too.

Canadianknowledgelover (talk) 06:06, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

POV tag in Controversy section
As directed, adding message to go with POV tag:

"PETA is by far the most hypocritical of these groups." and "Much of PETA's $32 million budget funds bizarre media events and celebrity stunts."

Using words like "hypocritical" and "bizarre," when not a direct quote, definitely reads POV to me. Recommend a knowledgeable editor (I am not one) look over to verify.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.21.34.118 (talk) 19:06, 17 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I'll go one farther and say remove entirely, since PETA is probably |the most vocal critic of the no-kill movement. Otterfan (talk) 19:45, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

Minority view deserves representation
There seems to be a bona fide issue as to whether there is pet overpopulation vs. an actual shortage of available pets. The numbers can be misleading. As an example, pets with a terminal condition may be brought to a shelter to be euthanized, without differentiating this from those pets killed due to the shelter being unable to adopt out the pets. The perspective that there's an actual pet shortage may be a minority view, but it should not be dismissed as WP:Fringe. See removal of content based on claim of fringe view.

According to this Time magazine article, while some parts of the country have too many pets, other parts have an actual shortage.

Here are a couple of other stories suggesting there's more than one side to this issue: Fabrickator
 * The Great American Dog Shortage
 * Shortage of Shelter Pets
 * working link to deleted Nathan Winograd Q&A

Requested move 11 September 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Adumbrativus (talk) 06:02, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Overpopulation in domestic pets → Overpopulation of domestic pets – To match the lead sentence, and to just make better sense in English (the overpoulation isn't inside of the pets). — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  04:03, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Support makes more sense -- NotC hariza rd  🗨 09:08, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Purebred relevance unclear
The purebred section seems to have turned into a referendum on purebred animals, and it’s difficult to tell how it relates to the article. I gather that there’s some evidence that a perceived demand for purebreds has contributed to overpopulation, but in that case the section should rewritten to show this. 2600:6C55:6D00:3AC:74F6:89B4:E61C:8E41 (talk) 17:50, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, some of it relates to the article, and some of it doesn't, but is sourced so probably should merge into Purebred (or a more specific article like Dog breed, as applicable).  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  06:37, 5 December 2023 (UTC)