Talk:Palmarian Christian Church

Dress code
I was a member os this church, they had some very strict rules. Women were not allowed to wear trousers,they had to wear skirts below the knees. men had to wear trousers,then someone complaind that jeans were to tight, so jeans were banned. you all had to wear long sleaves. you were banned from goin swimming and going to the beach. You were not allowed to used contraception. If you were in a violent relationship the priets would persuad you to stay with your partner. You were made to tell your children that father christmas was not real. You were not allowed to let your children listen to music as it poisoned their minds. You were banned from walking in any other church grounds or graveyards, and were not allowed to take part in religious education as school. The religion was quite brain washing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wilkie123 (talk • contribs) 20:52, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Some of this is to be expected. Marian devotees are usually pretty strict on dress, contraception, staying in abusive marriages to try to work it out, and what kind of music you could listen to. That's why I quit the sodality I was involved with in college. --Bluejay Young (talk) 21:16, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I was a member as a young child. Im so greatful that my mother desided to leave. I was bullied at school for being the 'weird' kid, who wore skirts, couldnt go swimming etc. And as i used to have to sit out during Religious education classes a lot of the other teachers thought it was because i was a 'Bad' child.
 * It was very brain washing. I remember the excitement i felt when my mum told me we were leaving the church! She went out and bought me My 1st pair of jeans and a swimming costume! I was over the moon. I ran round to all my friends houses to show them my new clothes.
 * That day was probly the best day of my life as i no longer wore skirts in my gym class. I GOT SHORTS :D —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.40.132.242 (talk) 01:26, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
 * WP:Not a forum. What has this to do with editing the Article? The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 04:09, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Eating clay-like paste
When I stayed with a family who followed this religion (in the 1980s) one of their customs was to eat some form of light-coloured paste or clay-like pate with meals. They even offered it to me but I refused as it seemed distinctly mineral in nature rather than animal or vegetable - it certainly was not food in any ordinary sense. I think it might have just been the local soil/stone ground up but the PCC followers obviously thought it had some religious powers or significance. What, one wonders? Also, as regards who the followers were, many of them had come from overseas: France, Portugal, UK and elsewhere. Can anyone elaborate on these points to expand the article? AnotherPath (talk) 13:52, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
 * There is an article about geophagia, but I never heard it related to this church. --Error (talk) 14:49, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Connections
Probably the most famous person associated with the Palmarian „movement“ ist singer Sinéad O'Connor (via the Michael Cox (Clergyman) fraction). None of that appears in this article, though. Does anyone know of a  good source? --AndreasPraefcke 07:08, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Bishop Michael Cox
Bishop Michael Cox of the Irish Orthodox Catholic and Apostolic Church, who ordained Sinead O'Connor as priest, claims valid orders through the Palmarian Catholic Church. Is it true? Was he in communion with the PCC when he ordained her? --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 00:53, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Cult
A 2011 TV3, Dublin, exposé described it as a cult which "forbids its members from even speaking to non-Palmarians." According to Magnus Lundberg, it "has been described as a manipulative sect, based on the unquestionable authority of the leaders and an increasing separation from the world outside the church." Lundberg wrote that "some researchers" have "looked upon the Palmarians as a dangerous sect" in which "abuse was common."

I am parking this here because I am not sure how much to include and remain neutral. After watching the video segments and seeing photos of the compound perimeter that includes a high wall with concertina wire along with a guard dog run, I think the cult aspect should be included in the article after more sources are found. –BoBoMisiu (talk) 22:43, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

Adding/Removing content
This page was built by people who either have incorrect information choose to have selected information. The Holy Apostolic Palmarian Church Wishes nothing to do with the content on this page and views it as incorrect. The information on here has led to harassment of the members of this church and from now on will not be tolerated. The content on this page that declares this church to be a sect/cult is not correct and should be removed, immediately. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PatrickWalsh (talk • contribs) 00:59, 4 June 2017 (UTC)


 * @PatrickWalsh: The description as a cult is based on a TV3 documentary. In what ways are you asserting their research is faulty? We do not remove content from pages because it makes the subject look bad; WP:NPOV actually encourages making sure we look at the subject from all angles. —C.Fred (talk) 01:02, 4 June 2017 (UTC)


 * On looking further, I see your concern with the current version of the page. Although the TV3 documentary is mentioned here on the talk page, it's not mentioned on the article. —C.Fred (talk) 01:05, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

@c.fred, yes this is a concern. The TV3 documentary was done without any corresponding with current members of the church. Everything is done from the outside looking in. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PatrickWalsh (talk • contribs) 01:35, 4 June 2017 (UTC) Another notion, the mention of sects and cults on this page is incorrect according to gotQuestion.com "Steven Hassan singles out what he refers to as “destructive cults,” which he defines as “a pyramid-shaped authoritarian regime with a person or group of people that have dictatorial control. It uses deception in recruiting new members (e.g. people are NOT told up front what the group is, what the group actually believes and what will be expected of them if they become members).” Hassan also correctly points out that cults are not only religious; they may also be commercial or secular in nature." This is not the case in Palmar. Members and new members are told up front what the church expects and believes and the members have their own free will. They can leave when they so choose. By singling out norms that the Palmarians abide by as describing them as a cult is incorrect. PatrickWalsh (talk) 03:19, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

"Popular References"
Should there be a "popular references" section or something here? The only thing that I know of that would be there is Dan Brown's new book Origin - which is a (very) negative reference, but I'm sure there are others. Jimw338 (talk) 18:24, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

Pope Peter II
Great Doctor, vilely calumniated and betrayed, Cofounder of the Order of Carmelites of the Holy Face, Patriarch of El Palmar de Troya, Second principal column of the Church of Christ in the spiritual desert of El Palmar de Troya, Protector and Defender of the Holy Palmarian Christian Church, Magnanimous Collaborator in Palmarian Doctrine and Discipline, Aflame with the zeal of Elias, Pre-eminent Solar Luminary of the Church.

Called Manuel Alonso Corral in the world, he was born in Cabeza del Buey, Badajoz, Spain, at six in the morning on Thursday 22nd of November 1934, feastday of Saint Cecilia, virgin and martyr; so that he was given the second Christian name of Cecil. A few days later he was baptized in the Parish Church.

His father, Joseph Alonso Píriz, a native of Zamora, was a State Schoolmaster by profession. Deeply Catholic, he was faithful to the political ideals of the National Movement. His mother, Juliana Corral García, a fervent Catholic, canonized by her son Pope Saint Peter II on the 8th of May 2011, was born in a town called Alhocén, in Guadalajara, though her parents were from El Vellón, Madrid, where they resided. Manuel’s parents met and married while his father was a schoolmaster in this last town, until later transferred to Cabeza del Buey. They had seven children, five boys and two girls, Manuel being the fourth child.

During his early childhood it was his lot to live, in his native town, the Glorious Spanish Civil War, in the red zone, until shortly before the end of the hostilities. There, in Cabeza del Buey, it fell to him to suffer the misfortunes and trials of the conflict Spain was undergoing. His father, known as a Catholic schoolmaster ever loyal to the cause of Saint Francisco Franco, was the object of persecution by the town communists, without his firmness weakening on that account; and though his life was at risk, with inexpressible heroism he ever rejected any favourable offer which might have involved betraying his holy religious and political ideals. The family had to bear with bombardments, refuges, flights into the country, until his father performed the valorous and unforgettable feat of passing over with his wife and three young children from the red zone to the National zone, making their way between the two fronts until reaching the city of Zamora, where relatives of his lived.

Once the war had ended in 1939, Manuel being five years old, the family moved from Zamora to El Vellón, Madrid, where his mother’s sisters lived with Jesus, his next elder brother. Shortly afterwards they returned to Cabeza del Buey, until his father was appointed teacher in El Vellón, where Manuel made his First Holy Communion. From there, in the year 1944, at some nine years of age, he went to live in Madrid, where his father definitively practised his profession.

Madrid was the city in which he grew up, and which he loved so deeply that he considered himself a Madrileño at heart, as much or more so than if he had been born there, being deeply imbued with its beautiful and colourful customs, its pious traditions and its entire cultural, political and historical personality.

His first formal schooling in Madrid was at the Vázquez de Mella School. At eleven years of age he passed the entrance exam to study at San Isidro’s College for his school leaving certificate. There he did the seven years of the then Bachillerato Superior. He passed his final exam in the old Central University building, obtaining the certificate of Bachiller Superior on the 12th of July 1954. In October that same year, he began to study Law, as an external student, as sickness prevented him from always attending class.

It is well to mention that his pious parents took pains to give, both to him and to all their other children, a solid religious formation, as they practised their religion with the most conscientious scrupulosity and submission to Holy Mother Church. He did not remember them ever saying one word which might have offended or been injurious to any Priest. With admirable zeal, his parents, even when their children had grown into youths, made sure to take them to Mass, to confession and to Holy Communion, at least on Sundays, Holydays and First Fridays of the month.

Thanks be to God, during his childhood and youth, though with the normal ups and downs, he led a life of piety and apostolate within the parish catechesis and the ranks of Catholic Action, with all his heart helping his two elder brothers, Joseph and Jesus, who held posts. His brother Saint Joseph Alonso Corral became Youth President. Manuel’s youth in Madrid was very happy, since despite the family’s many sufferings owing to serious illnesses, he was full of enthusiasm, especially for his studies, literature, and art. His father often took them to concerts, classical theatre performances, the El Prado museum and many other cultural centres. Nonetheless, his greatest aspirations were focused on one day entering the religious life. How much was he to suffer on that account! For he always found his desires of entering some monastery frustrated owing to his very precarious health. For this reason he was heartbroken for many years. Nonetheless, inwardly he always clung to that hope, which was later realized in El Palmar de Troya, Seville, Spain. The age of eighteen was crucial for him, as he came to be more aware of the realities of the spiritual life, and gave himself up fully to religious practices, coming to attain a deep love of purity. In the Church of ‘San Pedro el Real’ in Madrid, popularly known as the Church of La Paloma, he met an elderly lady called Mary Valiente López. He learnt important things about the spiritual life from her; above all, devotion to Our Mother of Perpetual Succour, from which he was to receive so many favours. When Pope, he was to canonize her on the 21st of June 2009.

From eighteen years of age, he began to have contact with the Redemptorist Fathers, and he was filled with enthusiasm at the rural missionary spirit of this Religious Order, and with the deep devotion they professed to the Most Holy Virgin Mary under the title of Our Mother of Perpetual Succour. He felt so drawn to their piety that he took one of those Friars as spiritual director. His devotion to the Most Holy Virgin Mary began to turn almost into delirium, as not for one moment could he cease to think of Her. He wanted to be sure of Her protection. To do so, at eighteen years of age, on the 25th of July, Feast of Apostle Saint James, he made a solemn vow of Marian Slavery before the Perpetual Succour picture; a vow he renewed every year from then on until his death. He felt deeply protected by the Virgin, and placed all his hope in Her. But Marian devotion was not limited to a mere outburst of fervour, as it infused great love for the Eucharist in him, and he made every effort not to lose Holy Mass and Communion one single day, and moreover to pray the Holy Rosary. At that time, he was very ill with lung trouble, with little hope of a swift recovery, for whenever he made some effort proper to the ordinary life, he relapsed and had to take to bed. Every year he went with great fervour to the novena held by the Redemptorists to Our Mother of Perpetual Succour. As he suffered greatly from his illness, he used to ask the Most Holy Virgin for his cure. At the end of the year 1955, he began to feel a certain conviction that, in the following novena to Our Mother of Perpetual Succour, She would cure him completely, a conviction which deepened every time he looked at the Perpetual Succour picture. On the 7th of February 1956, his saintly brother Joseph died, to his and the whole family’s great grief. In the following month of May, he attended the novena to the Virgin as usual, and from then on never again had lung trouble. The doctors who later saw him were amazed to see how well he had healed.

Some months after his brother’s death, in the year 1956, when twenty-one years of age, as he found himself in good health, he began to work at the Nuclear Energy Board, thanks to a cousin of his who had a job there as a mining engineer. It was a great joy for him to be able to earn his living and at the same time continue his Law studies, to which he felt singularly drawn. It cost him great efforts and almost heroic sacrifice to continue with his studies: because of his work he had to rise up very early every morning so as not to lose Holy Mass and Communion, since his workday began at eight in the morning and finished at six in the evening, with a short break for a meal. Once over, he stayed on at his office to study until very late, then returning home. He suffered greatly from lack of sleep; since he scarcely had time to rest, and besides had trouble falling asleep.

His concern to receive Holy Communion daily led him very often to make great sacrifices; and God’s action was frequently noted, so that he might not be deprived of that supernatural nourishment. It was quite usual for him to rush through Madrid’s streets in all haste, going from church to church, looking for one where he could receive Holy Communion, taking advantage of the breaks between classes when attending the university in the evening. He rarely missed Holy Communion, as he sought It every day so earnestly.

He obtained his degree in Law in June of 1963. This was a great joy for him, as it had cost him many privations; for while others, after their work in the office, went out to enjoy themselves, or at least to relax, he had stayed on inside studying for long hours. In the year 1964, the Nuclear Energy Board granted him a scholarship to do Management Studies. The new course likewise meant great sacrifices for him. For once his work at the Board ended, he had to attend class from seven in the evening until ten at night, and then at home settle down to study. If previously he slept little, he now slept less. But these studies allowed him greater facility for fulfilling his religious duties; since in the Jesuit college where he was doing this course, there was naturally a chapel, where it was easy for him to hear Mass and communicate. The course on business studies lasted three years and, thanks be to God, he came through the exams each time with excellent marks; above all the last, despite having spent one month ill in bed with hepatitis and another month convalescing. In June of 1967, the studies ended, with the corresponding Degree.

He combined his work and study with the apostolate of Catholic Action. He also used to visit hospitals on Sundays, instructing and consoling the sick. Until twenty-eight years of age, his apostolic life was very intense, as he devoted all his free time to it. On one occasion he did the Spiritual Exercises of Saint Ignatius with the Jesuits, living in, and he was assured that he was of no use at all for the religious life; nonetheless, those exercises were very beneficial to him and a great experience. He also took part in short courses on Christianity, thus strengthening his spirituality, which was beginning to wane. Yet as from twenty-eight years of age, when he had more contact with the world, he found himself being dragged along by his human weaknesses, until then almost dormant in him, with the resultant constant struggle of falling and rising up; since despite his many falls, he never wholly gave up, as he confessed and communicated very often. They were years of great interior suffering, indescribable desolation and almost despair. Still, in the midst of this black whirlpool, in a dream he was given to know that the Most Holy Virgin Mary would help him to overcome Satan, with a new resurgence of his spiritual life; which was later to be fulfilled in El Palmar de Troya. In the dream, he saw an enormous shadow hurling him over a tremendous precipice, and saw that someone held him back and freed him from falling into the abyss.

He was always deeply enamoured of literature and the arts. From an early age, as has been said, his father instilled in him, as in the other children, love for good books, paintings and other forms of culture not opposed to the Law of God. His mother had less free time for this, owing to her many duties at home; though she also shared her husband’s interests. Every work of literature fascinated Manuel; above all poetry. From his youth he read the Spanish classics: Saint Teresa of Jesus, Saint John of the Cross, Cervantes, Lope de Vega, Tirso de Molina, Saint Peter Calderón de la Barca, and so forth… And likewise the luminaries of romanticism, contemporary writers, and so on. He eventually wrote a good number of poems, and won first prize for one in a poetry competition; though when he became a religioso he burnt all his writings.

Towards the end of 1966, in Madrid, when he was still doing Business Studies, through a friend he met the superior of the Saint John of God Brothers, who lived in the sanatorium house of Our Father Jesus of Great Power in Seville. Without Manuel having made him any proposal, the superior offered him a post in the Insurance Company and the Workshops of this Institute, so that he might organize the administration and the accounts. Manuel told him that he agreed, but that beforehand he had to obtain his second Degree. It pleased him deeply to go and live in Seville, a city which he had recently visited twice, and whose extraordinary beauty had seduced him. His degree obtained, he asked for leave from the Nuclear Energy Board and they granted him one year.

On the 15th of January 1968, he arrived in Seville by car, accompanied by his mother and a brother. He was received with great affection and consideration by the superior of the Saint John of God Brothers. He began his work checking over all the money being deposited in the Spanish banks and savings institutions on the occasion of the great campaign which the superior was carrying out for the construction of the Saint John of God City in the province of Seville. Afterwards, he devoted himself to watching over and organizing the Insurance Company of Saint Raphael and Saint John of God, which had fallen into complete chaos; and with much work and prudence, he was able to set it to rights. He felt very happy working at this task. He was well liked and regarded by all, religiosos, children and workers. He laboured with great enthusiasm; especially because he was dealing with a Catholic Social undertaking. He took no account of sacrifices made and enjoyed the great confidence of the superior and of the other religiosos.

His coming to Seville, a very beautiful provincial capital, was shortly afterwards linked to one of the most transcendent events in history: the Apparitions of the Most Holy Virgin Mary in El Palmar de Troya, and Manuel’s association with the principal seer, Clemente Domínguez y Gómez.

On the 30th of March 1968, the Most Holy Virgin of Carmel appeared for the first time over a lentisk-tree (lentisco) in the La Alcaparrosa property, to four girls from the village: Raphaela, Ana, Josepha and Ana. This shrub called lentisk was plentiful on the property. Nothing remains of the lentisk tree of the first apparition, since the devotees used to cut its branches off as precious relics. A small wooden Cross was set up in the exact Place, and around it prayers were recited and the seers received heavenly visits. Later on, Clemente by then a seer, the Sacred Face of Jesus and the Imagen of Our Mother of El Palmar were set up in this place of the Lentisco. In this way the spot chosen by the Most Holy Virgin in Her first apparition was preserved. After the first four girls, other seers arose: Rosario Arenillas, from El Palmar de Troya, on the 14th of April 1968; Maria Marín, from Utrera, on the 20th of May 1968, and Maria Luisa Vila, from Seville, on the 6th of June 1968. And in that same year: Antonio Romero, José Navarro (Cayetano), Manuel Fernández, Antonio Anillos and others, all residents of El Palmar de Troya. Subsequently Arsenia Llanos, from Jerez de la Frontera, was also chosen as a seeress. Sadly, all those seers later betrayed the Work of El Palmar, and abandoned this Sacred Place of Apparitions, for varied reasons.

Manuel met Clemente in Seville on the 18th of May 1968; and it was at the precise moment determined by Providence to be able to know, follow and share the stages Clemente was to live through as a seer. As from his meeting with Clemente, their friendship grew daily closer and more sincere. Clemente had been born in this city of Seville, in a house quite close to the present apostate roman cathedral, on the 23rd of April 1946. He worked in an office as an accountant and lived quite simply. In the first days of their friendship, following a conversation they had together, Clemente revealed that in the space of a week he had had two dreams: the Most Holy Virgin had appeared to him and had vested him in the habit of Saint Dominic. Clemente told him all this in a very natural way. Manuel gave it little importance. But he, sure of the transcendence of the dreams, emphatically reaffirmed: I will be a Dominican.

When he met Clemente, Manuel had already visited the place of Apparitions out of mere curiosity, though with some respect and interest. He spoke of El Palmar to Clemente, who had also already visited it, and they travelled out to the Place of Apparitions in Manuel’s car. During the different visits they made in the year 1968, their attitude was one of respectful curiosity, for at heart they admitted that something supernatural might be taking place.

It was the 15th of October 1968. They learnt that the Most Holy Virgin, through Maria Marín, had called for many to come that day to El Palmar. He and Clemente went to El Palmar at night. When they arrived everything was over, as it was almost 11 at night. Nonetheless, something unpleasant awaited them at that hour. On reaching the entrance to the property, they observed that a number of people were still at the Lentisco. They were moving around as though dancing in a circle about a woman, while singing the Hail Marys of the Rosary, interspersed with sarcastic outbursts of laughter, guffaws and diabolic applause. The blood-curdling spectacle could be discerned at that distance thanks to some lighted candles there. They did not dare to go up to the Lentisco. They prayed some Hail Marys and went back to Seville. Some time later they were informed that a deranged woman, whom nobody knew, had sown confusion among those present by saying that she was the incarnation of the Virgin of the Pillar. From that day, he and Clemente practically ceased to visit El Palmar.

However, early in the summer of 1969, thanks to an article published in the ABC newspaper by a Jesuit Father in defence of El Palmar, they again felt an interest in those supernatural phenomena. A key date was the 15th of August 1969, Festivity of the Assumption of the Virgin. In the morning he and Clemente left to spend the day at the beach in Cadiz. But on the way they decided to make a stopover in El Palmar de Troya. A group of people were there, awaiting a Jesuit Father, who might possibly say Mass in the afternoon. Shortly afterwards this Priest arrived. They spoke with him and decided to spend the whole day there.

More pilgrims resorted there in the afternoon. The Jesuit Father said Holy Mass on an altar beside the boundary wall, outside the Apparitions site.

During Mass, Maria Luisa Vila had a vision of the Most Holy Virgin. It was the first time they had been present at an ecstasy, though they were not very close to the seeress. They received Holy Communion with much devotion and became convinced that the Apparitions of El Palmar were true. They then went up to the Lentisco, where Maria Marín, in a marvellous ecstasy, was seeing the Lord. Suddenly they heard a powerful voice that said with assurance: “Christ is present here!” Their whole being trembled. It was the first time that they had heard that the Lord was appearing in El Palmar. They also witnessed a vision of Rosario Arenillas, and noted a heady heavenly fragrance. From then on their visits to El Palmar were almost daily. They came to know the seers better, and had proofs of their authenticity.

Very significant were the frequent attentions which the Lord and the Most Holy Virgin gave to Clemente through the different seers of El Palmar, setting him out in singular fashion and showing special preference for him. Doubtlessly, Heaven was preparing the way for the one to whom Their most important Messages would later be confided.

An unforgettable day for them was the 14th of September 1969, Feast of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross. It was already night. Shortly before, they had witnessed an ecstasy of Maria Luisa Vila, which had filled them with great peace. But the Devil, making use of someone present there, disturbed Manuel’s soul, filling him with doubts. He and Clemente went down to the road. Anguished confusion, seizing hold of Manuel’s mind, made him exclaim: “I shall not come back to El Palmar as long as the Virgin does not call me!” Clemente wept. Of a sudden, a most powerful light came up from the horizon, slowly advancing until resting over the Lentisco, forming a great Cross upon a pedestal of luminous flowers with a wonderful radiance. The emotion was indescribable. He and Clemente went running back towards the Lentisco. But half way up, the marvellous vision disappeared. They asked three people praying there if they had seen anything. They looked at them in surprise, answering negatively. The seer José (Cayetano) was also there, and he confirmed their vision, and presently entered into a marvellous ecstasy.

They continued to frequent El Palmar. It was on the 30th of September 1969, when Clemente had his first vision. One year and a half had transpired from the first Apparition in El Palmar. A good number of people were praying in the Lentisco, among them the seeress Rosario Arenillas. It was nightfall. Suddenly they noted a kind of sigh from Clemente, who told them that he was seeing the figures of two people, one tall and the other shorter, walking slowly towards the Lentisco from the upper part of the property. The two figures, which were dark, whose facial features the seer was unable to discern, stopped some metres away from the Lentisco. Clemente, at the same time as he saw them, was conscious of the place and of the people around him. He understood from the details, somewhat hazy, of their bodies, that they were the Lord and Padre Pio. The vision over, the seeress Rosario Arenillas, who had also witnessed the apparition, confirmed that they were the Lord and Padre Pio. A few days later, he had an identical vision, and in the same circumstances, with the seeress Maria Luisa Vila.

From this time on, Clemente had visions frequently. He also saw the Virgin, Saint Joseph and other Saints, but in the same way as the first two visions: dark and unable to make out their faces. The 8th of December 1969, Festivity of the Immaculate Conception, was a memorable day for Clemente. In the morning they went to El Palmar to stay there the whole day. A good number of people met up there. Towards mid-morning, Clemente entered into ecstasy at the vision of the Immaculate Virgin. Minutes later, the Lord appeared as Christ the King. It was the first time that the seer had seen the Lord and the Virgin clearly. He saw all the details of their figures and faces perfectly. Clemente fell to the ground in rapture, with the loss of all his senses. From that day on, in all of Clemente’s visions, he had perfectly clear perception. But in the evening, by then dark, Heaven regaled him with further wonderful visions. First the Most Holy Virgin appeared, surrounded by Angels who bore the Habits of the Order of Saint Dominic. Shortly afterwards the Lord appeared, and later a Saint. The Lord indicated to the seer that it was Saint Dominic. This Holy Founder of the Dominicans announced to Clemente the presence of Saint Joseph, who also became visible. For the first time the seer heard the voices of the Lord, of the Virgin and of the two Saints. His vision, however, became ever more impressive. Clemente received the Habit of Saint Dominic from the hands of the Most Holy Virgin. The Angels brought it and vested him with it. Shortly afterwards he also received the sacred vestments of a Priest, and recited the parts of the Mass in Latin, dictated to him by Saint Joseph, except for the Consecration. All this happened mystically, since the seer saw himself thus vested in the vision. Those who surrounded the seer only perceived his gestures and heard his voice. This ecstasy was indescribably beautiful and touching.

Clemente received his first Message from the lips of Saint Dominic on the 10th of December 1969, recommending the recital of the Holy Rosary of the Our Fathers. Something very significant, however, took place that day. When they reached El Palmar, the entrance to the property, which was beside the large Cross in the surrounding wall, was closed. That was the primitive entrance. They settled down to pray close to where the Imagen of the Divine Shepherdess was later enthroned. Clemente fell into ecstasy. He saw that Saint Joseph had moved down from the Lentisco to the wall, close to them. The Lord and Saint Dominic also appeared. When the ecstasy ended, they could see that a new entrance had been opened up, which exists today. They could not overcome their surprise, as no one had heard the least noise. Only Don Antonio Vota told them that during Clemente’s ecstasy, he went to place his hand upon the wall and it fell down. Rather strange, as the wall was sufficiently strong not to fall so easily. Clemente remarked that Saint Joseph had stood on the wall right at the new entrance. They all understood that it was this Saint who had opened it. They did not dare to enter. At last they went inside the property with certain trepidation and, when they had taken some steps, Clemente saw Saint Joseph who, from the entrance, with his staff, indicated that they should go up to the Lentisco.

On the 12th of December 1969, Clemente had a vision of Saint Dominic, who told him: “See now at my right hand the Divine Countenance of Our Lord Jesus Christ. See, my son, the Face of Him who gave all, to His very breath, for your sins and for the sins of the whole world.” And the Holy Face of Jesus appeared, dolorous and bleeding. Saint Dominic then gave him the important Messages on the Holy Face: the spreading of the Holy Face throughout the world, the Holy Viacrucis and the Reparatory Communion of the First Thursdays, making reparation for the outrages done to the Lord’s Divine Countenance.

Until the Holy Face was set up in the Lentisco, they used to bring up a picture of the Lord’s Face, before which they said the prayers. The Holy Face of the Lentisco was set up, by order of Heaven to Clemente, on the 2nd of February 1970. The Imagen of the Divine Shepherdess was emplaced and blessed on the 1st and 2nd of March 1972. Our Mother of El Palmar was placed in the Lentisco on the 12th of September 1972.

In Manuel’s professional work at the Saint John of God Institute, because of his association with the Apparitions of El Palmar de Troya, his prestige crumbled. The religiosos considered that his work at the Institute was incompatible with the Apparitions, in which he firmly believed. He never neglected his professional duties; so the only reason for that incompatibility was that the Apparitions of El Palmar, following their condemnation by the apostate cardinal of Seville, Bueno Monreal, might compromise the Saint John of God Institute. Nonetheless, both the cowardly and unjust superior of those religiosos, as likewise the other religiosos, were well aware of his honesty, professionalism and Catholic integrity, since besides, in the Apparitions they were taught to be true Christians. However, their fear and cowardice in the face of what others might say led them to betray their own consciences, acting unjustly and dismissing him.

Manuel Alonso was the great propagator of the Palmarian Messages given to Clemente Domínguez, and accompanied him on many of his apostolic journeys throughout the world. They both lost their jobs unfairly on account of their valiant defence of the Work of El Palmar. And God permitted this so that from then on they might dedicate themselves entirely to the apostolate. In different Heavenly Messages, the Lord, the Virgin and other Saints, showed their love for Manuel, addressing him words of gratitude and praise through the seer. Though he was not himself a seer, on certain occasions, both as a layman and as Bishop, he had personal charisms which strengthened him further, if possible, in the truth of El Palmar.

The Divine Work of El Palmar de Troya was fiercely persecuted by the progressivist and ruinous hierarchy of the Roman Church, then ruled by glorious Pope Saint Paul VI, Martyr of the Vatican, who was aware of the Apparitions and Messages of El Palmar, handed over to him by the seer himself. Saint Paul VI never condemned the Work of El Palmar de Troya. Clemente Domínguez and Manuel Alonso had to defend the Apparitions of El Palmar with vigour and tenacity. On the 23rd of December 1975, despite many obstacles, Clemente Domínguez y Gómez, by order of Our Lord Jesus Christ, founded the Religious Order “Carmelites of the Holy Face in Company of Jesus and Mary”, of which Manuel Alonso Corral is Cofounder. On the 1st of January 1976, at the request of the Most Holy Virgin, Clemente Domínguez and Manuel Alonso were ordained Priests by Archbishop Saint Peter Martin Ngô-dinh Thuc, who had arrived from Rome some days previously. And on the 11th of January 1976, they were both consecrated Bishops.

On the 29th of May 1976, owing to a car accident brought about by Satan, Bishop Father Clemente lost both eyes. Several months later, by order of Heaven, Bishop Father Clemente received the name of Father Ferdinand, and Bishop Father Manuel Alonso received the name of Father Isidore. The Order of Carmelites of the Holy Face grew, and a sizeable episcopal college was formed.

In the city of Santa Fe de Bogotá, capital of Colombia, at the death of Pope Saint Paul VI on the 6th of August 1978, Bishop Father Ferdinand, Clemente Domínguez y Gómez in the world, was elected, anointed and crowned Pope directly by Our Lord Jesus Christ. Three days later, the new Pope, called Gregory XVII, De Glória Olívæ, translated the See of the Church from Rome to El Palmar de Troya, Seville, Spain. Thus began the history of the Papacy in El Palmar de Troya, with the mission of restoring and maintaining doctrinal and disciplinary integrity in Christ’s Church, by way of profound reforms and magisterial teachings. For this purpose, Pope Saint Gregory XVII the Very Great convoked the Holy, Great, Dogmatic Palmarian Council and the Holy Dogmatic Palmarian Synod, in which the then Most Reverend Father Isidore Mary, Secretary of State, took part as principal collaborator. The great Reform Work reached its peak with the elaboration and publication of the Holy Palmarian Bible.

Most Reverend Father Isidore Mary, by order of Pope Saint Gregory XVII the Very Great, travelled through different parts of the world preaching and teaching the true Palmarian Catholic doctrine. On the 24th of October in the year 2000, Pope Saint Gregory XVII the Very Great drew up and signed an Apostolic Decree, naming his Secretary of State, Bishop Father Isidore Mary, as his successor in the Cathedra of Saint Peter. Immediately after the death of Pope Saint Gregory XVII on the 21st of March 2005, in El Palmar de Troya, the new Pope began his Pontificate with the name of Peter II, De Cruce Apocalýptica. On the 24th of March, Holy Thursday, his official coronation took place in the Cathedral-Basilica of Our Crowned Mother of El Palmar in El Palmar de Troya, with the assistance of all the Palmarian Bishops, the other members of our Religious Order and of a large number of terciario faithful of the Holy Palmarian Church. That same day, the 24th of March, Pope Saint Peter II the Great canonized his revered predecessor Pope Gregory XVII the Very Great.

The Papacy of the Glorious Vicar of Christ, Peter II, lasted six years, three months and twenty-four days. On the same day his papacy began, he named Most Reverend Father Sergius Mary as his Secretary of State, who collaborated with him in all the arduous tasks which the Church’s Government involves. He was a Pope of great works in the Church’s interests, as he drew up and approved the magnum opus of Palmarian Ecclesiastical History, as likewise the Palmarian Lives of the Saints, the Children’s Grade Bible, and the Elementary and Intermediate Grade Bibles. He also revised and rearranged the Messages of El Palmar de Troya. Warranting special mention among his writings are his Thirty Apostolic Letters sent out to the Church to teach, correct and hearten his Flock, which he loved so dearly as great Shepherd. He declared the Holy Years 2008, 2010 and 2011. He solemnly consecrated the Church Militant to the Eternal Father on the 21st of March 2008. As likewise he solemnly consecrated the Church, Spain, the World and the entire Universe to the Holy Face of Our Lord Jesus Christ on the 30th of March 2010. He also brought up to date, revised and retouched different doctrinal texts. A great number of outstanding members of Christ’s Mystical Body were raised to the rank of the Glory of the Altars and declared Doctors of the Church by him. Likewise, on the 23rd of July 2006, he infallibly defined that he was descended on his father’s side from Saint Ferdinand III, king of Castile and León, and his first wife Saint Beatrice of Swabia; and on his mother’s side from Saint Alphonse Sánchez de Cepeda and his second wife Saint Beatrice de Ahumada, parents of the exalted Reformatrix of Carmel, Saint Teresa of Jesus. He also dogmatically defined other doctrinal matters.

As Pope he had a great interest in visiting and celebrating Holy Masses in different cities and countries marked by his Sacred Footsteps, and thus be able to make the word of God fructify, in imitation of the first Pope Saint Peter I the Very Great. And so, following this yearning, being the first Pope known to have done so, he celebrated Holy Mass in Russia, on the 27th and 28th of May 2008 in Saint Petersburg, and on the 29th, 30th and 31st of May 2008 in Moscow. In Moscow he consecrated Russia to the Holy Face, to Our Crowned Mother of El Palmar and to Most Holy Crowned Saint Joseph of El Palmar, to implore the Eternal Father for the swift conversion of the Russian people.

His health began to deteriorate alarmingly from the start of the year 2009, with kidney problems, which he had been having for some time. He had to undergo several operations. In one of them, which lasted five hours, cancer of the ureter was detected, and it was decided to remove it and extirpate the right kidney, which no longer functioned, being atrophied. From then on his problems became increasingly complex. A highly malignant tumour was detected, and despite all the tests and treatments he underwent, the cancer continued to develop. His will to recover, subordinated to God’s Will, to be able to serve and work for the Church, made him suffer intensely, as he was always conscious of the gravity of his condition, finding himself ever more in need of assistance. With every passing day he felt a little worse. Disease undermined his whole strength. The doctors attending him did not know what to say at all his bodily suffering. They couldn’t understand how he kept alive.

On the 6th of July 2010, before starting out on his journey to another country for medical treatment, Pope Saint Peter II the Great, in the roll-call patio, before the whole Community of Friars present there, verbally named Most Reverend Father Sergius Mary of the Holy Face and of the Immaculate Heart of Mary as his successor, so that at his death Most Reverend Father Sergius Mary might occupy the Cathedra of Saint Peter, as Vicar of Christ, and also named him his successor as Superior General of the Order of Carmelites of the Holy Face.

On the 3rd of March in the year 2011, four days before entering a clinic in Seville, as his condition was steadily worsening, Pope Saint Peter II the Great, by means of a written Sacred Decree read out to the whole Community of Friars, named Most Reverend Father Sergius Mary of the Holy Face and of the Immaculate Heart of Mary as his successor in the Papacy, so that at His death Most Reverend Father Sergius Mary might occupy the Cathedra of Saint Peter as Vicar of Christ and as Superior General of the Order of Carmelites of the Holy Face.

Countless were the medicines and treatments he had to receive from Holy Week 2011 up till the day of his death. It was painful in extreme to see the Father General of the Church ebb away, to see him lose his speech, smile, gaze and encouragement. During the last days of his life, he was scarcely able to receive food and drink, and every attempt to that end resulted almost fruitless.

His illness had great ups and downs, so that it was always thought that he was in his last moments. He had repeatedly made known that, for the great devotion he had to Saint Teresa, he thought that the day of his death would be the 15th of some month, since the feastday of the Holy Reformatrix was also on a 15th. Close to the 29th of June, feast of Saint Peter I the Very Great, it was thought that he would be unlikely to reach it.

Days later his breathing became alarmingly difficult, so that the then Most Reverend Father Sergius Mary, before the Community of Friars went out to evening worship at the start of Vespers preceding the Feast of the 16th of July, sent all the Friars to the Papal Cell in order to take their leave of the Holy Father, and each give him their Blessing, as he was very grave. This was the Holy Father’s desire, which was fulfilled, for he had always wanted to bid farewell to all before dying, in spite of him then being unconscious. Some hours later he died in the Papal apartment in the monastery of the Carmelites of the Holy Face in the Sacred Place of El Palmar de Troya, at 20.07 on the 15th of July 2011, eve of the festivity of the 16th of July, while at the Main Altar of the Cathedral-Basilica, the daily Eucharistic Procession worship almost over, the Salve Regina was being sung during the final incensation of the Altar. Once prepared for burial in Papal adornments and white-coloured Pontifical vestments, he was borne to the Sanctuary of the Main Altar of the Cathedral-Basilica of Our Crowned Mother of El Palmar, where he was given homage with a great show of filial love from Friars, Nuns, and the Palmarian faithful who had come on pilgrimage for the 16th of July. Turns of Holy Masses were celebrated throughout the night and following day, with the recital of the pilgrimage prayers.

On the 16th of July 2011, at 12 midday, he was declared Venerable Servant of God.

Pope Saint Peter II the Great was solemnly canonized on the 17th of July in the year 2011. In the Act of his canonization, Pope Saint Peter II was declared “the Great”, and was named “Protector and Defender of the Holy Palmarian Christian Church”.

He was declared Great Doctor of the Church on the 26th of July in the year 2011, festivity in honour of Saint Anne, Mother of the Most Holy Virgin Mary.

==Pope Peter III In the world, Markus Josef Odermatt, afterwards Bishop Father Eliseo Mary. He was born in Stans, Nidwalden, Switzerland. He is descended from Saint Nicholas of Flüe, a hermit of the fifteenth century venerated in Switzerland as Father of his Country, whose only nourishment for twenty years was Holy Communion, and who succeeded in freeing his country from a disastrous civil war, and miraculously helped Switzerland to stay out of the First and Second World Wars. The Nidwalden Canton Flag displays the papal emblem of the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven in honour of its patron Saint Peter Apostle. Bishop Father Eliseo Mary joined the Order of Carmelites of the Holy Face in 1985 and was a missionary in South America for eighteen years. He was Secretary of State for almost 5 years, from 2011 to 2016. Pope Peter III has maintained the new Calendar for Palmarian Holy Week, which therefore begins on the 20th of March and ends with the Commemoration of Resurrection Sunday, on the 27th of March; and the 25th of March, the day on which Our Lord Jesus Christ died, will always be in Commemoration of Good Friday, regardless of the day of the week on which it falls. In a world of general apostasy, His Holiness Pope Peter III, as Good Shepherd of souls, by way of his Apostolic Letters, courageously defends and proclaims Sacrosanct doctrine and Morals, thus combating error and other moral degeneration. — Preceding unsigned comment added by WilliamPWalsh (talk • contribs) 04:20, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

keeping on task
''This is a departure from traditional Catholic doctrine, which identifies the papacy with the bishop of Rome. Roman Catholic teaching also holds that personal revelations are not binding on the Church as a whole.'' The point of the article is not to establish whether the PCC is in agreement with the RCC or about the validity of PCC ideology, but to talk about the PCC. I think the sentences quoted above should be deleted.--Richardson mcphillips (talk) 23:55, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Redundant prose.
There's a lot of repetition in the article with the same points appearing in multiple paragraphs. Robin S. Taylor (talk) 01:05, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:22, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Manuel Alonso Corral (Pole Peter II).jpg
 * Pope Gregory XVII of Palmarian Catholic Church.jpg
 * Pope Gregory XVIII.jpg

Name
This 2019 tweet from the alleged official Twitter account of the organisation suggests the group was officially called "Palmarian Catholic Church" in 2019. In contrast, the "Who are we?" section of their official website states (and stated as of December 2018): "3. The true Church of Christ is also called 'Palmarian Christian Church of the Carmelites of the Holy Face', or 'Palmarian Christian Church', or 'Palmarian Church'; since in essence this is exactly the same as saying 'the Church, One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic and Palmarian.' ". Magnus Lundberg also uses the expression "Palmarian Catholic Church" in his academically-published book on the topic. Veverve (talk) 00:57, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

"Generally accept the conventional succession"?
Under "Palmarian popes" it says that "Palmarian Christians generally accept the conventional succession of Catholic popes up to Paul VI ( r. 1963–1978)". Does the "generally" suggest that they reject some conventional popes prior to Paul VI as illegitimate as well, or that certain Palmarian Christians do? If so, it should be clarified which popes this refers to and if not the "generally" should be removed. Mosasauroides (talk) 11:41, 23 January 2023 (UTC)


 * there is a complete PDF book in the 'Further reading' section. Maybe you can find an answer in it. Veverve (talk) 20:15, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

This is a cult and not a Christian Church.
That's it. Calling this Christianity is taking the perspective of the cult leaders and not a neutral view point. Typical Wikipedia though. Probably have the leaders watching the page. 38.52.40.55 (talk) 15:15, 20 March 2024 (UTC)


 * if it is true that some unethical practices are occurring within the church it might be helpful to include a section on it, but describing it in the first section as a cult is a bad idea Gaismagorm (talk) 15:21, 20 March 2024 (UTC)