Talk:Pansexual flag

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 January 2020 and 5 May 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): LaurenAllen00. Peer reviewers: Kvryme.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 02:05, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

PROD
I have added a handful of sources that I hope establish the notability of this flag. and and I were also discussing the flag Talk:Pansexuality. I feel the PROD can be removed now. I will continue to find more sources.  Eve rgr een Fir  (talk) Please 21:16, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Just wanted to say that I'm satisfied with these additional sources. Sorry about making it a little dramatic. 173.51.180.108 (talk) 03:00, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
 * That's how things get done around here (I've done it myself). No need to apologize. Thanks for removing the PROD!  Eve rgr een Fir  (talk) Please  03:02, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Kingdom of Cochin
Is there any way to know if the likeness to the flag of the Kingdom of Cochin is due to some inspiration or just a coincidence? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.251.77.222 (talk) 14:41, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Suggested improvements
Everything in the article is relevant to the article topic. However, a few improvements/additions to this page could be the following: An individual could possibly add more on what exactly it means to be pansexual or to at least link the pansexuality page with the pansexual pride flag page. Additionally, the theory of pansexuality, and its goals could be added to the wiki article just so individuals could have a better understanding or it could be linked to the pansexuality theory page if there is one, and if there is not one maybe there could be one in the making. Moreover, some of the sources are from Blogs. It is extremely difficult to find academic information on pansexuality and the flag so out of curiosity would buzzfeed and mashable still be okay sources to have on this wiki article? Maybe there are more hidden credible sources that could replace the blog sources. Londralondris (talk) 02:52, 2 February 2017 (UTC)londralondris

Biphobic Definition
This definition is old-fashioned, antedates current gender theories, and effectively descriminates against bisexuality by defining it negatively so as to exclude pansexuals.

A more contemporary gloss of the bi flag is that the pink portion of the flag represents sexual attraction to one's own gender (however defined); the blue portion of the flag represents sexual attraction to another gender or genders; and the overlapping purple portion of the flag represents sexual attraction to one's own and another, several other, or all other genders. Nuttyskin (talk) 01:21, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Nuttyskin, we can only go by what the sources state. And as I think you know, the Pansexuality article addresses the bisexuality vs. pansexuality debate -- that people might not distinguish the two because. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 17:00, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

New Flag
It looks like the talk section of the Pansexuality wiki is discussing that a new pansexual flag was made in the past two years. How do we feel about adding a new section to address this change? I can't find much in the way of sources which is part of why I held back - let me know if y'all have any more information/thoughts on the matter! Erindoesthings (talk) 05:13, 13 June 2021 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure there's a good way to include the new flag without running into WP:FALSEBALANCE and/or WP:UNDUE. At minimum, I'd want evidence that support for a new flag reaches the "prominent adherents" level listed in WP:UNDUE. So far, it just seems to be an internet slapfight with little to no support from the broader pansexual community, let alone in anything that'd meet WP:RELIABLE. --Pikavangelist (talk) 16:42, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Reference/source contradictions
Hi everyone! I'm a bit of a new editor so I'd like to find consensus here :)

Sources 4, 5, and 8 (as of 17 June 2021) are the following:

4: https://www.ktvu.com/news/want-to-know-more-about-the-rainbow-colors-heres-a-guide-to-pride-flag-symbolism

5: https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/graphics/2021/06/01/lgbtq-pride-flags-meaning-gay-lesbian-transgender-nonbinary-intersex-pride-flags-represent/5133381001/

8: https://mashable.com/2014/06/13/lgbt-pride-symbols/

Sources 4 and 8 disagree with source 5 on what the colours of the flag represent. Specifically, the sources say:

4: "The pink represents women-identifying people, yellow is for non-binary and gender-nonconforming people, and the blue is for male-identifying people."

5: "The pink stripes in the pansexual flag reference those who are attracted to women, while the blue references those who are attracted to men. Yellow stands for nonbinary attraction."

8: "The blue stripe represents people who identify as male, the pink represents people who identify as female and the yellow represents people who identify as no gender, both genders or a third gender, such as genderqueer."

This article currently has the following information as to symbolism: "The blue portion of the flag represents sexual attraction to those who identify as male (regardless of sex), the pink represents sexual attraction to those who identify as female (regardless of sex), and the yellow portion, found in between the blue and pink portions, represents sexual attraction to non-binary people, including but not limited to those who are agender, bigender and genderfluid."

This interpretation disagrees with 2 of the 3 referenced sources. Switching the interpretation would make it disagree with the other 1 source. In my (personal) experience, the commonly accepted symbolism is the one (currently, see: 17 June 2021) reflected in this article, though I recognize this may not be shared by everyone who has a stake in this.

edit: Just had another look at WP:NPOV.

It seems to me that, in order to follow NPOV, both points of view should be mentioned. If this view is wrong and respecting the policy would instead yield another result, I'd like to get a crash course on NPOV from a more seasoned editor. Thank you!

--Maby51 (talk) 09:44, 17 June 2021 (UTC)


 * I added a more reliable source (than tumblr) for the artist's name, and noticed that it agreed with "5" about the symbolism. I've edited the article to mention both interpretations. -sche (talk) 07:28, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Creator
The actual known creator of the pan flag is Jasper. V. but the only proof that there is about this is their twitter post on the topic and an article quoting said tweet. And also the first time that they appeared in the article was by an unsigned user and then by Jasper themselves. So I conclude by saying that there is no reliable information on the subject at the moment and the creator should remain as anonymous. And most of the articles that they are featured suffer of citogenesis, as they were made way after they were added to Wikipedia. PWall2222 (talk) 16:16, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

You can't claim that any article published after 2020 is invalid because of citogenesis and remove it, it's not our job to do original research. The accusation of citogenesis is odd considering one of the sources you removed was actually before Jasper was mentioned as the creator of the flag in this article, although I have issues with using that particular interview considering majesticmess might not be the best source.

But an LGBT subject matter news outlet and a 24/7 news outlet seem good enough to me for establishing creatorship. Until there's a valid source that claims that they didn't create it, for the purposes of this article they created it.

Finbee (talk) 21:51, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

The first appearance of Jasper V (or their deadname Evie Varney) was in April 2020 in this edit, from a unsigned account citing 0 resources with an IP from England (same place as Jasper V). And the next time that they appeared is in 6 March 2021 in this edit literally by themselves. Any and all mention of the creator of the flag being Jasper V is after 2020. And Jasper V first said anything about they being the creators Jun 25 2020.

PWall2222 (talk) 06:53, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Interesting, so you're saying that this is a case of citogenesis because Jasper's name was edited into the article in 2020, despite the source that you removed earlier (Majesticmess) being Published on December 1st, 2018?

I'd recommend you read WP:MEAT by the way.

WP:RSSELF might be a good read. Majesticmess is a personal blog, therefore not a reliable source. I can't provide further evidence of Jasper V not being the legitimate creator of the flag so I will desist on editing the Wikipedia page. But I would like to see a reliable source before the post of April 2020. PWall2222 (talk) 17:10, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

The claim of citogenesis is silly, as all external investigation into this topic has shown that Jasper was the creator, and that is frn where the current sources are confirming the claim. While OR can't be used as a wikipedia source, it can be used as a source for Wikipedia's sources, and I don't see anyone putting forward any evidence that the current sources got their info from Wikipedia as opposed to researching the topic elsewhere and talking to Jasper. This isn't some tall tale that was dreamt up out of nowhere - Jasper is a real person who people can speak to. It is absurd to claim that their authorship of the flag is in question or fabricated. BlackholeWA (talk) 18:20, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 21 December 2021

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) feminist (talk) 05:37, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Pansexual pride flag → Pansexual flag – In aiming to have a naming convention for all pride flags, as well as in the aim of WP:CONCISE, the "pride" should be removed from the name. See lesbian flag, transgender flag, etc ~BappleBusiness[talk] 13:59, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. Elli (talk &#124; contribs) 03:14, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Uncertain – a search for both is inconclusive in the first 50 results, although a more careful analysis, with separation of vendor sites and blogs from more reliable sources might provide a clue. However, I don't think having a naming standard across articles is a valid reason to change it. What if it turns out that "gay pride flag" is more common than "gay flag" (it is) but "pansexual flag" is more common than "pansexual pride flag" (it might be). That wouldn't be a good reason to argue for "pansexual pride flag" just because "gay pride flag" is more common. Each case should be decided on its own. Arguing for consistency across articles without considering WP:COMMONNAME would not be the right approach, imho. Mathglot (talk) 09:53, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I totally get what you're saying. But if "pansexual pride flag" and "pansexual flag" are used at somewhat similar rates (I assume they are, though I haven't done an in-depth study into it or anything), we should follow WP:CRITERIA where it states that a good Wikipedia article title ... is consistent with the pattern of similar articles' titles, along with WP:CONCISE as I mentioned before. ~BappleBusiness[talk] 20:27, 25 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Support Rreagan007 (talk) 22:03, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

Colors
Some editor came by and incorrectly changed color names in a few articles. In this one, he changed the colors from pink, yellow, and blue to magenta, yellow, and cyan. I don't think this is correct -- is there any support for this nomenclature? Was the flag defined as "pink" or "magenta" in the first place? --jpgordon&#x1d122;&#x1d106;&#x1D110;&#x1d107; 06:20, 3 January 2023 (UTC)


 * if we are specifying it's cyan and not blue, so we should specify magenta over pink. Also, I propose we mention these three colors are primary colors (in CMYK color model). Xdtp (talk) 07:49, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Do we have any good references to support this? I'm pretty sure that you are correct that there is a connection to the CMYK palette but we need to be able to prove it before we say so. DanielRigal (talk) 11:59, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
 * The CMYK vs RGB representation is irrelevant in the absence of actual sources. The flag is a recent invention. Did the inventor call it "magenta" or "pink"? --jpgordon&#x1d122;&#x1d106;&#x1D110;&#x1d107; 15:19, 3 January 2023 (UTC)


 * According to the links in the commons SVG file, at first they used hex codes, but they later said it's pink originally. Sources are purely archived Tumblr Xdtp (talk) 15:36, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
 * So the hex codes aren't MAGENTA or CYAN anyway, but at best shades thereof; #FF218C (not #FF00FF ) and #21B1FF (not #00FFFF). --jpgordon&#x1d122;&#x1d106;&#x1D110;&#x1d107; 15:51, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, in a prescriptivist sense you're right. Xdtp (talk) 15:57, 3 January 2023 (UTC)