Talk:Pattimura

Real name
Is it should be "Matulessi" or "Matulessy" instead of "Matulesia"? I'm waiting for response at least three days from now and I'll just change it.In Harmonia Progressio! (talk) 07:37, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

3 days - some articles have questions that are not answered in one year - hmmm SatuSuro 07:40, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Then should I change it just now? In Harmonia Progressio! (talk) 07:44, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

I didn't do proper research but googling learns that the original familyname was Matulessia with Matulessya and Matulessija as alternative spelling. Because of their name the family had difficulty finding work after the revolt (the Dutch have carefull laundered their history) and changed it by dropping the a to Matulessy or Matulessi. Some even changed it more drastically to Nitalessy. According to http://ullath.com/matuless.htm (I don't know any Indonesian/Malay) the Matulesia family in Hulaliu even changed it to Lesiputty (meaning: stronger than white men) after 1817. As I see it, the correct spelling should be Matulessia with redirection for Matulessy. Erik-Jan Vens (talk) 10:49, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Why leave the background material in the Source Peter van Zonneveld unused?
In the section "Ambon revolt of 1817" only the following is said about the background of the revolt: "He was appointed as Kapitan by the people of Saparua to rebel against the Dutch on 14 May 1817". But much more is known about the proximate causes of the revolt, and that information is narrated in a business-like manner in the source Van Zonneveld that is referenced in the section. The source is in Dutch, so not easily accessible for Anglophones. So I had Google Translate render the relevant text in English, and copy that here: In 1816 the Kingdom of the Netherlands was faced with the task of restoring authority in the Indonesian archipelago. A squadron of 2,000 troops, a few officials, and three general commissioners sailedto take over the administration from the English. That was no easy task. A committee of two, consisting of Nicolaas Engelhard and JA van Middelkoop, was assigned to put things in order in Ambon. The 27-year-old Johannes Rudolph van den Berg was appointed as resident of the island of Saparua, which is located east of Ambon. Together with his wife, Johanna Christina Umbgrove, and their four children, he arrived in Saparua on March 15, 1817. He had no management experience. On May 14, a revolt broke out on the island, led by Thomas Matulesia, about 34 years old. A citizen of Saparua, he had enlisted in the English army, where he had reached the rank of sergeant major. On May 16, together with a few hundred supporters, he stormed the small fort Duurstede, where, together with a handful of soldiers, the Van den Berg family also found themselves. The fight lasted from six in the morning to three in the afternoon. The insurgents then entered the stronghold and killed anyone they encountered there. When reports of this incident reached Ambon, a force of over 200 men under Major Bits was dispatched to restore order. That attempt failed miserably. On May 20, most of the soldiers on Saparua beach, including the major, were killed. Only thirty soldiers managed to escape. The revolt spread to the nearby island of Nusa Laut, to the south coast of Seram (formerly: Ceram), and to the Hitu peninsula on Ambon. Fort Duurstede was recaptured by the Dutch on August 3, and it was not until the autumn that the revolt was completely suppressed. On November 12, Pattimura was captured. That same day, five-year-old Jean Lubbert van den Berg, who appeared to have survived the massacre and had been cared for all that time in the interior of Saparua, was handed over to the Dutch." The part about Pattimura's personal grievance is mentioned just above in the "Biography" section, but the causal link is not immediately obvious. I think this is not good historiography. I understand that Pattimura's status of national hero makes it difficult to relate aspects of his conduct that may diminish that status, but in current Dutch historiography that has become a matter of routine. People like Rear-Admiral Buyskes and Quirijn Maurits Rudolph Ver Huell are "cancelled" as a matter of course, despite the good things they may also have done. So let's not be too queasy. I am not going to do the edit myself. I leave that to the people who have done an otherwise good job with this article. Ereunetes (talk) 17:36, 17 March 2023 (UTC)