Talk:Paul Simon/Archive 1

2003 comments moved here from other page
Copied from Talk:Paul Simon (musician)

i've been looking around, (just on the internet), does anyone know if he was born in 1941 or 1942??

If anyone finds out, could they update his year of birth in November 5 too?

thanks

He was born in '41. -- goatasaur

Discussion moved to Talk:Paul Simon.

See also: Talk:Cream

Anyone have any thoughts about moving this page to Paul Simon (musician) and making this page a disambiguity page? UtherSRG 02:20, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)


 * There's precedent; see George Clinton. Salsa Shark 02:24, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Then I shall make it so. UtherSRG 02:25, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)

If you're going to disambiguate, use parenthesis only when middle names and initial are not different/present. And if you do, go to "what links here" at Paul Simon and change all the links directing there. --Jiang | Talk 02:41, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)


 * And how many people would know either of their middle initials? They aren't known by anything other than 'Paul Simon'. But yes, I was planning on going back and fixing the other links. UtherSRG 02:42, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Yes, but the precedent is to disambiguate using different names. The redirects will remain, if your concern is w/ people not being able to locate the article. --Jiang | Talk 04:38, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)


 * What precedent? The rule of thumb is "name most commonly used in English."  Disambiguation in parentheses is far preferable to using names hardly anybody's ever heard of, and even their own mother doesn't call them (and yes I think Elizabeth Ann Smart is at a ridiculous title). - Hephaestos 05:11, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Unfortunately, Elizabeth Ann Smart is currently the name of that article. That proves my point - it is the precedent to use names to disambiguate. Efforts to move it elsewhere were thwarted. So unless Elizabeth Smart and a whole bunch of other articles are moved, Paul Simon stays.

"Paul Simon (senator)" is worse than "Paul Simon (politician)", use his profession, not his title. --Jiang | Talk 05:18, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Please, stop moving it to the "senator" page. If you're going to move it, call him a "politician" because I would also ask for Paul Simon (Representative), Paul Simon (Presidential candidate), Paul Simon (professor), etc. And please show me where else this kind of disambiguation is done. --Jiang | Talk 05:32, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)
 * You mean like George Clinton mentioned above? Rmhermen 05:41, Dec 10, 2003 (UTC)

The various George Clintons didn't have middle names, so it was impossible to do it otherwise. How about Kim Beazley? Neither are referred to using their middle names. --Jiang | Talk 05:47, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)
 * How about Piet Hein. Rmhermen 05:56, Dec 10, 2003 (UTC)

That's explained in the article on the elder Beazley. "His son Kim Christian Beazley, better known as Kim Beazley junior..." (emphasis mine). These are similarly misnamed, and should be moved as well. - Hephaestos 05:57, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)


 * Except they are both politicians in Australia. UtherSRG 05:59, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)

As long as we keep it standard...

Go ahead an move all of them (including Elizabeth Smart). If everyone is satisfied, then this can be our new convention. --Jiang | Talk 06:02, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)


 * It is the present convention. It is the old convention.  It dates back to 2001.  See Wikipedia_talk:Policies_and_guidelines.


 * The only reason I haven't moved Elizabeth Smart is because some people were apparently too squeamish to call her a "kidnap victim." But I'll probably make the move tonight.  Likewise, given the numbers on Paul Simon the musician, I'll probably go back and move him to just plain "Paul Simon" and move the disambiguation page to "Paul Simon (disambiguation)" in keeping with common style on the Wikipedia.  Doesn't take long after all.  I could have spent my time here talking endlessly about it instead. ;) - Hephaestos 06:07, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)


 * Seems logical and appropriate, Hephaestos. -- BCorr ¤ &#1041;&#1088;&#1072;&#1081;&#1077;&#1085; 06:14, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)

My apologies to all concerned. I began "improving" the disambiguation page and moving the two Paul Simon's, when I saw RFC to a redirect to something like broken_link_001. I didn't realize that there had already been a discussion. --Uncle Ed 19:19, 16 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Copy and paste moves can never be accepted. It was agreed that this page be on the musician rather than a disambiguation since all the links pointing here refer to the musician. --Jia ng 22:52, 5 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Edie Brickell
Request attention to Edie Brickell page please. Was created as substub, it's a stub now, but I just thought you'd like to know. Cheers, Dunc_Harris|&#9786; 20:42, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Religious views
The article identifies him as Jewish American. While I realize that label is as much about ethnicity as religion, and there are plenty of people who consider themselves Jewish but don't follow Jewish religious teachings, I'm wondering about the distinctly Christian flavor of a lot of early Simon and Garfunkel songs, especially on Wednesday Morning 3 AM ("You Can Tell The World", "Benedictus", "Go Tell It On The Mountain"). Was he just singing those songs because he liked them, or did he actually convert to Christianity at one point? Was he a Jew for Jesus? --Angr/undefined 09:32, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

I don't think he ever converted to Christianity or was a Jew for Jesus. Preaky 03:45, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

No, he never converted to Christianity, and still remains Jewish, although he is not Orthodox. Once, at a friend's house in the sixties, he was served gammon and pineapple - one of the hostesses best dishes at the time - which he ate, and (reputedly) enjoyed, claiming "Oh, it doesn't matter. I'm not Orthodox." Sergeant Snopake 16:16, 22/03/06


 * On an interview on American television in 2007, Simon was asked, "Are you religious?" to which he replied, "No." He was also asked, "Do you believe in God?" and he replied, "Yes."  It seemed clear from the interview that he regarded institutional religious structures as irrelevant to his personal belief.  Unfortunately, I can't recall which programme this was, but I think I found it on YouTube.  I can't do a YouTube search from my current (dial-up) location, but if someone is interested in this source, I don't think it would be hard to locate.  ReggyRaccoon 10:22, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Place of Birth
The first paragraph claims that he was born in Newark Heights, New Jersey. The first paragraph of his biography a little further down says that he was born in Queens, New York. Which is true? Did his family live in Queens when he was born, or did they move to NYC after his birth? ColinKennedy 18:58, 5 January 2006 (UTC)


 * He was born in Newark, and at a young age (I want to say 6, for some reason), he moved to Queens, where he met Art Garfunkel. Inferi 07:57, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

He can't of been six. His brother, Eddie, was born when he was four, by which time they'd moved to New York. Sergeant Snopake 16:17, 22/03/06

Surprise
The next album is due in June according to the L.A. Times (Feb 5, 2006). Better Than Ezra's album of the same name already has an entry, so how should Paul's be named?


 * Surprise (Paul Simon album) --MartinUK 19:35, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

I think that it should stay as it is, since it is already out, however, many different bands have the same album names. The name of the group actually becomes part of the album anyway, ie. "Pual Simon's Surprise," or "Better Than Ezra's Surprise." That is how we have labeled them anyway.-Damian Stollsteimer

Carrie Fisher?
If Edie is mentioned, shouldn't his marriage to Carrie Fisher also be mentioned? CFLeon 01:42, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Prolific songwriter?
I think Paul Simon is the opposite of a "prolific songwriter", and that is a very well known fact. In his 34 years of solo career he made 10 originals albums (1 of them a soundtrack, and another the score for a musical). Now do you call that "prolific"? The remark that his output is of the "highest caliber" would really be enhanced by stating that he is NOT prolific. Besides, I think the article should mention his Grammy Awards (12, counting the S&G period) and his induction to the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame (both as a solo artist and as a member of S&G). Nahuel, Buenos Aires PS: I don't dare to do the corrections myself, as english is not my native language.

I can't think of the best way to add it, but it might be mentioned that his was the only episode of the muppet show in which every song performed was written by one individual, himself

I suppose ‘versatile’ would be a better word. When you listen to something like ‘For Emily, Whenever I May Find Her’ and then 'Stranded in a limousine’, the difference is quite sensational! S e r g e a n t  S n o p a k e 12:15, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Attributes as a songwriter
I thought that this article could expand slightly on his use of differing musical genres or styles in his arrangements which predate the african & cajun styles on Graceland (I'm not sure how much of S&G's arrangements would be credited to Simon alone): of course there is folk-rock which could easily be said to be his "home" genre. Then doo-wop, 50's rock'n'roll, beatlesque touches, bossa nova ("So Long, Frank Lloyd Wright"), Peruvian folk ("El Condor Pasa"), ska ("Mother & Child Reunion"), jubilee gospel music ("Loves Me Like a Rock"), latin music ("Me & Julio"), and so on.

Another attribute that I think is worth mentioning in the article is his use of real person's names, often as signifiers of an era or Simon's personal history: Joe DiMaggio, Johnny Ace, John Lennon, Robert McNamara, Frank Lloyd Wright, Rene Magritte, and so on. --Design 10:24, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

no other hits on his chart?
I find the chart under "Discography" for his singles curious -- neither "The Sounds of Silence" nor "Mrs. Robinson" appear on the chart, and I would have thought both of them (and likely a half-dozen others) would be worthy of note on this chart somewhere. Those (and others of his songs during that period) helped define and describe a generation, besides which they were certainly top 10 hits.

I tried to get real information off the Billboard 100, but they regard something that old as "ancient history" and figure they can get me to pay them money to look it up. So instead I'm hoping someone else has the info at hand...

rc


 * I don't have the stats for the Billboard 100 chart but in the UK the Record Retailer/Music Week chart was the industry standard and it gives these placings;
 * Song Title (Date of first chart entry)  #Highest chart position
 * Homeward Bound (March 66)   #9
 * I Am A Rock (June 66)   #17
 * Mrs. Robinson (July 68)   #4
 * Mrs. Robinson EP (January 69)   #9
 * The Boxer (April 69)   #6
 * Bridge Over Troubled Water (February 70)   #1
 * America (October 72)   #25
 * A Hazy Shade Of Winter/Silent Night - Seven O' Clock News (Dec 91)   #30
 * The Boxer (re-issue, February 92)   #75
 * I don't know how to include this information in the main article but I hope it's of some help. ReggyRaccoon 11:27, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Removed a little of personal info on his 14yr old son
Not appropriate to already give him a profession or mention that goes to a camp called xxx.

Disambig
I know there's been prior discussion of this, but why -- again -- is the default for Paul Simon not the disambig page? I'm a fan of the musician, but he's not inherently more notable than the prominent former Senator, and this seems like an arbitrary hierarchy. Does anybody object to this?--Francisx 16:56, 6 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Paul Simon, the musician, is world famous. The Paul Simon who apparently is an American politician is someone of whom I had never heard until I saw this page.  Unless Wikipedia is specifically a resource for Americans' use, I see no reason to consider that a parochial politician is as notable as a globally respected artist.  That would be like elevating Brian Wilson, (the former British junior minister in the Labour government) to the same status as Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys. ReggyRaccoon 10:56, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Awards?
He won 12 Grammys (with Garfunkel and as a solo artist) and he was inducted in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame with Garfunkel and as a solo artist. Also nominated for an Oscar. Shouldn't it be better to have an "Awards" section than to have the informations scattered around the text? Nazroon 23:51, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Paul Simon Recorded As Jerry Landis
Paul Simon Recorded As Jerry Landis is an album of paul simon, released with name "Paul Simon" 2006. Why delete? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.228.41.56 (talk) 15:06, 3 May 2007 (UTC).

Fair use rationale for Image:Bookends.jpg
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Vandalism
"Simon also contributed his original composition to The Seekers catalogue, "Someday One Day," which was released in March 2008."

Or, unlikely, a mistake, but I don´t know the date to change it, neither if there are other "changes". Nazroon 17:18, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Heritage
Why is he labeled as "of Hungarian descent" in the first paragraph? That is, why is this commonly done on Wikipedia? If you were boiling Paul Simon down to one paragraph, "Hungarian" would not be one of the words you'd use. Why is this so prominent in his biography here?


 * He's labeled as "of Hungarian descent" because Americans are obsessed with where they're families emigrated from. The real :question is why is he labeled as a Jewish-American?

87.198.112.68 06:32, 26 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Most entries for people list these details under "Biography." The Biography section already says Simon was born to "Jewish Hungarian parents." It seems odd to call him a "Jewish American singer-songwriter." For example, Eddie Van Halen's page doesn't refer to him as a "Dutch American musician." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.237.239.122 (talk) 14:50, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Hand injury
I read (on paper, long ago) that Paul Simon injured his hand while playing squash sometime in the seventies and that ever after this he has been struggling to play some of his more complicated pieces. Could anyone shed light on this since I can't find the source.

If I remember rightly, there is something about this in Patrick Humpgreys' biography of Simon - "Boy in the Bubble". I believe the injury resulted in a calcium deposit forming on his thumb making it difficult for him to finger bar chords. As far as I am aware the injury didn't leave any permanent damage. Unfortunately, i can't provide the exact page on which this is mentioned. 79.71.165.148 (talk) 12:08, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Graduation year
When did Simon graduate from Queen's? I have a feeling it was 1964, but it's never directly declared in the article. Jeztah (talk) 01:29, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Time line discrepancy
The main article states, "Simon had gone to England after the initial failure of Wednesday Morning, 3 A.M., pursuing a solo career." I think this is wrong - the album was released in October 1964 and I believe he was playing in England in April 1964. WM3AM did initially fail, but that was not the trigger for his travels. Anybody have any more information? Rickedmo (talk) 20:11, 14 October 2008 (UTC)