Talk:Pavel Schilling

Untitled
I deleted info about "Reuter's travel" because it has nothing to do with Pavel Schilling's inventionSea diver 07:18, 18 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I have replaced it, because i disagree. The passage explains the context of his invention and later its promotion, and also offers much further information. Note that Schilling is mentioned in every sentence in context of the general development. --FlammingoParliament 10:37, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Again, Flammingo, your information has nothing to do with Schilling's apparatus, which was invented and tested in 1832.Note, that this is a biographical article, not an article about "fastest promouter of the electrical telegraphy". Sea diver 06:34, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The name of the article is invention or Pavel Schilling? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.30.234.150 (talk) 11:37, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Who's Gustavo Henrique Bueno?
Is he Argentinian or Montenegrin? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.14.248.102 (talk) 18:14, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Are you sure you have the right article? That name does not appear in this one.  Spinning Spark  18:45, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Name
This article lists four different names. The title is not mentioned directly anywhere in the article, and it is not made clear whether his first name is commonly romanized. Cup o’ Java (talk &bull; edits) 02:42, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Family
Did baron schilling have children or get married Bjohns8586 (talk) 19:31, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

Who were baron schilling's parents Bjohns8586 (talk) 19:31, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

What was baron schilling's occupation and inventions and education and what awards did he win Bjohns8586 (talk) 19:32, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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"take it to talk"
Not sure why User:Spinningspark feels like reversions of their recent changes to the styles used previously have to be taken to talk while their own edits don't, but regardless, they've exceeded 3RR now. Please explain why you changed from full dates in the lede to abbreviated, and from single-column for the short list of notes to multiple columns. -- JHunterJ (talk) 14:45, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Please don't refer to me in the third person when you are addressing me directly. It's condescending. Don't throw accusations of 3RR around, it only arose through your own edit warring and you'll get a big BOOMERANG yourself if you try reporting it anywhere. If you followed WP:BRD in the first place it wouldn't have happened.
 * MOS:BIRTHDATE says The opening paragraph should usually have dates of birth and (when applicable) death. These dates (specific day–month–year) are important information about the subject, but if they are also menntioned in the body, the vital year range (in brackets after the person's full name) may be sufficient to provide context. I suggest that for a person who lived in the early 19th century, just the years are sufficient context in this case. MOS:LEADCLUTTER, while not explicitly addressing dates, is also relevant.  Basically, we should make the lead as readable and accessible to the widest possible audience.  Unnecessary details can be left to later in the article.
 * The notes are all single lines of text which look ugly and are hard to read, at least on a wide screen. I've found 30em is a good compromise for notes in most cases.  MOS:STYLEVAR is relevant here and I request that you respect it. SpinningSpark 16:01, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Drive-by notes from GAN
The article, quite disappointing, focuses exclusively on Schilling's telegraph, and says almost nothing about his principal, ex officio work at the printing house (1818-1823) and the Board of Cyphers (1823-1837) of the Foreign Affairs, and his work in cryptography. It was naturally hidden from contemporary foreign observers, but well researched later. Hope google can translate this or this more or less clearly. The first source also touches the less illustrious sides of his job (censorship and surveillance). His naval mine ideas - barely mentioned - did materialize, tested in 1815-1827 and fielded in 1833.

Also, the statement in the lede "The majority of his career was spent working for the imperial Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs as a language officer at the Russian embassy in Munich" is certainly incorrect and contradicts the main text ("... in Munich from 1809 to 1811"). Looks like a random error. Retired electrician (talk) 18:55, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
 * It's not an error. He returned to his substantive post in Munich after the end of the Napoleonic wars and stayed there until 1832. SpinningSpark 20:11, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Hope you do realize that managing Russian government cypher office out of Bayern was less than acceptable even then ;) Retired electrician (talk) 20:26, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
 * The story goes like: After the end of Napoleonic Wars Schilling was denied further army commissions and returned to Foreign Affairs in St.Petersburg. There, in 1815, he reported about latest German lythography tech, and was indeed sent to Munich to acquire it. By 1816 he's back to Saint Petersburg, in 1817 he was appointed chief of Foreign Affairs' printing house. Later he's appointed to lead the Board of Cyphers. These were his substantive posts to the end of his life. There are certainly no mention of him returning to Munich (at least, not for long). Anyway, his post there (before 1812) was so unimportant that he would hardly want it back.
 * Here's (again, in Russian) is the detailed story of his involvement in the wars and later collaboration with the military. Retired electrician (talk) 20:51, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Pavel vs Paul
Baron Pavel Lvovitch Schilling (1786–1837), also known as Paul Schilling. Given that Pavel is the Slavic version of Paul, the note is quite reasonable. The article Paul Schilling has the following note:. This is not technology, but applied linguistics. Peter Horn User talk 13:42, 17 September 2020 (UTC)


 * A disambiguation at Paul Schilling (the American hockey player) is needed because Pavel Schilling (the Russian diplomat) is called Paul Schilling in some sources. The same is not true the other way round; Paul Schilling (the hockey player) is never called Pavel Schilling so a reader looking for him is highly unlikely to end up at the Pavel Schilling page. SpinningSpark 13:53, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

Re. last years and death
In Spring 1835 Schilling's state of health rapidly deteriorated to the point when he had to request a permit to travel abroad for medical help. Releasing the living carrier of state secrets required permission from the tsar. With the help of Karl Nesselrode, in May 1835 Schilling secured his majesty's written consent which actually looked more like an industrial espionage mission, in areas from telegraphy to charcoal kilns.

In September 1835 Schilling attended a conference in Bonn (another task from his majesty), and delivered a sample of his telegraph set to Georg Wilhelm Muncke. This was soon demonstrated to William Fothergill Cooke, who then contacted Michael Faraday and Charles Wheatstone.

In 1836 Schilling supervised construction of an experimental underground telegraph line on the premises of the Admiralty, Saint Petersburg ( apparently he returned to Russia, but that's not written anywhere directly ).

In same 1836 Schilling tested samples of telegraph cable laid under ground, under water and on overhead lines. The results clearly showed advantages of overhead, air-insulated lines. Thus, when planning the Peterhof-Kronstadt line, Schilling insisted to make the submerged stretch as short as possible and run the rest of the distance on a coastal overhead line. The proposal was rejected and ridiculed: a surface line, visible to general public, was deemed an unacceptable security breach. The commission led by Alexander Sergeyevich Menshikov was adamant to keep his telecommunications secret.

In May 1837 Schilling received government instructions to draw a budget for the Peterhof-Kronstadt line, and to begin preliminary field work. By this time he already experienced regular pain from the tumour. In the end of May 1837 Schilling contacted physician Nicholas Arendt (his childhood friend from Kazan years, now Life Medic to Nicholas I). Arendt performed a surgery, which did not help; on August 6, 1837 Schilling died. He was buried with honours at Smolenskoye cemetery in St. Petersburg ( it is not clear if it's Smolenskoye Orthodox or Smolenskoye Lutheran; actually, I could'n find any note on his religious affiliation ).

All records, models and equipment left by Schilling passed to Moritz von Jacobi, who would build the first regular ( rather than experimental ) telegraph line in Russia, connecting the Winter Palace with the Army Headquarters, in 1841.

Two more portraits
According to Yarotsky, by late 1820s Schilling was, indeed, morbidly obese, so a long travel to Siberia was not a bad idea. Retired electrician (talk) 14:27, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

The very last sentence
"The building housing his apartment in St. Petersburg, then known as Ofrosimova's house, but now 7 Marsovue Pole, had a memorial plaque placed in 1886 to mark the centennial of his birth". This is actually The Adamini Building (commons:Category:Adamini House). Ofrosimova was just one of many owners: the building changed hands quite often, but it's not the point. It's about year. The Encyclopedia of Saint Petersburg dates it 1901, not 1886, and credits design of the plaque to Karl Baldi. Centennial makes sense, but in 1886 Baldi was a second-year student. Apparently, Russian sources are in complete disarray. Retired electrician (talk) 20:30, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Request for sfn-s
, I suggest converting the refs to sfn and efn to tidy up References. Would you object or is it good to go? Retired electrician (talk) 07:30, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry for not responding to this earlier, I have not been on Wikipedia much for the last month and it's taking a long time to go through my watchlist. Normally, I would strongly object to a change of referencing system.  I don't like sfns and these are most often added by drive-by editors who have no intention of adding anything substantive to the article.  But in this case, I see you have added a ton of material while I have been away, so if you find a different referencing system helpful, then go ahead. SpinningSpark</b> 10:54, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Alright, I'll take the middle ground and simply group together repeating refs without sfn-ing. Retired electrician (talk) 21:26, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Well that's the worst of both worlds imo. One of the advantages I see to plain shortened refs is that they are listed in the order they appear in the article.  If that is going to be changed, we might as well have the advantages of sfns. <b style="background:#FAFAD2;color:#C08000">Spinning</b><b style="color:#4840A0">Spark</b> 11:22, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

References not expanded in Bibliography
Who or what are the "Larin" and "Grebennikov" mentioned in the reference notes? Doctorhook (talk) 21:17, 4 July 2024 (UTC)