Talk:Penrhyn Quarry Railway

Oldest narrow gauge railway in the world
The Llandegai Tramway is not the oldest narrow gauge railway in the world. Its not even the oldest overground line in Britain. It is clearly predated by the Little Eaton Gangway built in 1795, three years before the Llandegai Tramway opened. Please don't change the opening paragraph back to reading "its is said to be the oldest narrow gauge railway in the world" since this is misleading. Even if Boyd or another source claimed this (in fact Boyd doesn't make this claim) its an incorrect claim and we shouldn't include it in the article. Thanks, Gwernol 17:24, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Penrhyn Quarry Railroad vs Penrhyn Railroad
According to Boyd, the title of the second railway is the "Penrhyn Railroad" not the "Penrhyn Quarry Railroad". Now I realize that Boyd sometimes gets these things wrong, so if there is a reliable source that shows the railway's title was the "Penrhyn Quarry Railroad", please add a citation. Thanks, Gwernol 17:37, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Edits to the Penrhyn Quarry Railway
I originally created this article and since then it has been added to with content that on the whole is very constructive. However, refusing to allow anyone to edit the page other than yourself does not seem very fare. Most of your argument is based on the work of Boyd which is not always accurate. The Penrhyn Railroad is known locally as the Penrhyn Quarry Tramway and in fact this title was used by its owners. You also state two different gauges which again is inaccurate as the actual gauge has never altered throughout but the method of measuring has indeed changed. This is confusing and misleading. The railways headquarters was at Port Penrhyn Quarry Office, Bangor, I should know as my father worked there! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Penrhyn (talk • contribs).


 * The reason I locked the article was because despite the fact that I asked you many times to discuss the changes on this page, you refused and continue to edit war. As you are now willing to discuss the matter here, I am happy to unlock the page as I said I would. Let's figure out how to come to reach a consensus on the changes before making them.


 * On the specific questions of fact, its important to understand that verifiability is one of the three key, non-negotiable policies of Wikipedia. To quote that policy: "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth." In other words, we need to be able to quote a published source for any changes we make. While I agree (as I said above) that Boyd isn't completely reliable, we do need an alternative published source for the changes you are proposing.


 * Do you have any documentary evidence that the 1801-1878 railway was called the Penrhyn Quarry Tramway and the gauge of the Llandegai Tramway? We'd need a cited source for this. I agree that Port Penrhyn is the location of the railway HQ, which is why I haven't reverted that change. Finally, we really shouldn't go back to saying that the PQR is considered by some to be the earliest narrow gauge railway, since this claim is obviously false (see the Little Eaton Gangway which predates it by 3 years). Thanks, Gwernol 23:07, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Gauge of the Llandegai Tramway
I've given the gauge for the Llandegai Tramway as 2 ft &frac12;in, per Boyd. However the article does need expanding to discuss the rather odd trackwork that the tramway used. Specifically the rails were of oval cross-section and the gauge given is measured between the centers of the rails, rather than the usual inside-to-inside measurement used for normal flat-bottomed or bullhead track. It isn't clear where the inside of an oval section rail is, this is confusing and should be spelled out in the article. I plan to add an update over the weekend. Gwernol 17:57, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Confused by the locomotive listing
So, the George Sholto listed as being scrapped is different to the George Sholto locomotive from Penrhyn that is preserved and recently paid a return visit to the line? If so, why is it not listed? Does an incomplete locomotive list really help? DiverScout (talk) 21:02, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

Sybil Mary
Was Sybil Mary also used at the quarry? According to Chris Allen this was built by the Hunslet Engine Company (Leeds) as an 0-4-0ST, No. 921 of 1906. --NearEMPTiness (talk) 05:22, 4 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Should the Hunslet Penrhyn Port Class be mentioned in the article? --NearEMPTiness (talk) 11:41, 4 July 2016 (UTC)
 * This article is about the PQR. The locos that worked in the quarry should probably be listed in the Penrhyn Quarry article rather than here? Railfan23 (talk) 06:03, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Lee references
Does someone know the page numbers for the two 1945 articles by Charles E. Lee? We need to disambiguate the footnotes. Thanks, Mackensen (talk) 14:00, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

New links
Could these be linked to ? Peter Horn User talk 18:12, 26 August 2020 (UTC)