Talk:Persecution of people with albinism

Capitalization
Should "albino" be capitalized for this article or not? When I started the article I capitalized the term "albino" because albinos are grouped by the persecutors into a special class, thus I do not see any significant difference to other persecuted groups which are identified and classified by their persecutors and are thus generally termed "XXX" rather than "xxx". Please convince me that I am wrong or change the header of the article back to "Persecution of Albinos". Ekem (talk) 02:21, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
 * First, I uncapitalized "albinos" because it isn't capitalized by others. See this Google Books search, ignoring cases where "Albino" is part of a title, and clicking "Next" until you have seen enough such examples). Also see these dictionary entries – although a few capitalize "Albino" as the defined word, they show it uncapitalized when used in the definition. And see this Google search – the only example of capitalizing "Albinos" refers to your own article. And see your own nine references. None of them capitalize the word "albino" except at the beginning of a sentence or in a title (I couldn't check your second reference because it doesn't link to the intended article).


 * Second, I don't understand the point about being grouped by persecutors into a special class. Why does being persecuted result in capitalization? Not in my experience. Jews were persecuted by the Nazis, but that isn't why Jews are capitalized. We capitalize any religious group (like Christians or Hindus) or ethnic group (like the Roma people), not just persecuted groups like the Jews. Hitler also persecuted homosexuals and the handicapped, but we don't capitalize "homosexual" or "handicapped". Murderers and thieves are also "persecuted" (if you can call justice persecution) but we don't capitalize the word "murderer" or "thief" either. Art LaPella (talk) 03:31, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
 * You are right. Also, I fixed the ref. Ekem (talk) 12:14, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Tanzania article
I have found an indepth article. Hopefully someone will find an use for it here. --Abdulha (talk) 21:15, 8 December 2008 (UTC)Abdulha
 * Has it been cited yet? If so, please close this talk page item with Resolved. —  SMcCandlish  &#91;talk&#93; &#91;cont&#93; ‹(-¿-)› 09:46, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Re:Title
On April 22, 2009 the title was changed from "Persecution of albinos" to "Persecution of albinism". I submit that albinism is a condition while albinos refers to people, and that it is people who are being persecuted, not a condition. I propose to reinstate the previous title or, alternatively, replace it with "Persection of people with albinism" to indicate that humans are being persecuted.Ekem (talk) 00:38, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree, you can't persecute a condition. GregorB (talk) 18:14, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeed, it should be reverted or changed to your (Ekem's) alternative title. --Roentgenium111 (talk) 18:43, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Best to go with "persecution of albinos", because both are equally unambiguous, but it's simpler. Nyttend (talk) 13:30, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Done. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:32, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


 * What about changing it so that it includes something about Tanzania (or Eastern Africa in general) since that's what the article focuses on. Or maybe include more information about persecution elsewhere in the world (if it occurs). Mahalo. --Ali'i 21:12, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Well "persecution of Albinos" sums up what the article is about, taking care of the what. I think the "where" doesn't need to be included in the title as it is in the opening sentences already. I believe it is good to keep it broad in case their are examples of Albino persecution that occurs somewhere other than East Africa. That way the info on the other hypothetical situation could be inserted here without changing the title again, or creating a new article for this new instance.--Phil5329 (talk) 23:31, 29 September 2009 (UTC)


 * No, Persecution of albinos is not a viable article name, any more than Persecution of spics, gimps, micks, tards, biblethumpers and carrottops would be. The term "albino" is well documented, both on and off Wikipedia, as being considered offensive (by people both with and without albinism) when applied to humans, as an epithet frequently hurled with ill intent at albinistic people.  This has been covered more than once already at Talk:Albinism and at WP:CFD; i.e. the matter is already settled by longstanding consensus. If Persecution of albinism is objected to, then move it to Persecution of people with albinism. Actually, I'll just make that move now and settle the complaint. Also, persecution of such people has not been limited to Africa; e.g. it is or at least formerly was very common in Jamaica and some other parts of the Caribbean. —  SMcCandlish  &#91;talk&#93; &#91;cont&#93;  ‹(-¿-)› 09:58, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

"Persecution"?
Actually, I'm not sure this qualifies as persecution. Persecution is defined as the act or practice of persecuting on the basis of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or beliefs that differ from those of the persecutor. From the article content, this sub-group of the population in that specific part of the world is being murdered for body parts, so it is actually more specifically "murder of albinos in East Africa". It is a specific phenomenon with a specific purpose. I think there will be a lot more content coming up since it's currently being covered on various television programs. Wildhartlivie (talk) 02:46, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Long since settled at Talk:Albinism. Also (as noted above already) persecution of such people has not been limited to Africa; e.g. it is or at least formerly was very common in Jamaica and some other parts of the Caribbean. Anyway, the short version is that hunting down, murdering and mutilating a particular class of people certainly does qualify as "persecution" under virtually any published definition of that word. —  SMcCandlish  &#91;talk&#93; &#91;cont&#93; ‹(-¿-)› 09:58, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * In a 2010–2015 thread below, I end up myself questioning whether "persecution" necessarily implies a political dimension, so maybe it's not so clear as I was thinking in 2009. If we want to rename or rescope the article, though, I think that's would probably need to be an RfC, since this article has been stable as-is for years.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  14:13, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Racism
Would this be classified as racism, or just persecution of a medical condition within a race? Bachcell (talk) 14:55, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think it qualifies as racism. Think of it more like discriminating against lepers than against Asians for example. Also the people are being targeted based on a spiritual belief, not based on a feeling of dark-skin superiority.--Phil5329 (talk) 23:25, 29 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Whether or not it's in any way based on dark superiority, albinos are in many cases treated as something outside of their own race, especially where Caucasian-looking people are less prevalent. Whatever the case, the people being hunted are victims or racism because they are targeted due to their skin, even if that racism is expressed as a form of spirituality.  --TheHoit (talk) 17:43, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

This Article is Afrocentric
This Article really fails to discuss the issues of discrimination againist people with Albinism in areas outside of Africa. This needs to be addressed as every article must be put up from an international perspective. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rainbowofpeace (talk • contribs) 09:08, 13 May 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree with you wholeheartedly, and know well that discrimination of albinos is in no way limited to Africa. Despite first-hand experience however, I do not know of any sources that document it save forums and blogs of albinos.  Does anyone know any place where this kind of research may have been published? --TheHoit (talk) 17:47, 23 September 2010 (UTC)


 * I have the same first-hand experience and no documentation. None the less, the article needs expansion. Leegee23 (talk) 16:08, 4 November 2010 (UTC)


 * This article has still not been expanded to reflect international outlook. If this does not change I will tag this with something to force it to look for an international outlook.Rainbowofpeace (talk) 05:25, 8 December 2010 (UTC)


 * This article is about persecution, - you are free to start an article about Discrimination of people with albinism. Of course, you are also free to add documented persecution to this article regardless of the location. Ekem (talk) 16:17, 8 December 2010 (UTC)


 * You are telling me there is no persecution anywhere else in the world againist people with albinism.

Dictionary.reference.com states Persecute-verb 1. To pursue with harassing or oppressive treatment esp. because of religion, race, or beliefs; harass persistently. --Rainbowofpeace (talk) 06:16, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

This means persecution againist people with albinism is anything that harasses or oppresses (treats unfairly) people with albinism. I have no doubt that this exists elsewhere other than Africa. Once again change it or I will put a tag to force it to change. --Rainbowofpeace (talk) 06:18, 9 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Also, the article is only about present-day situation. lacks historical perspective, there must be some sources about treatment of albino people in ancient civilizations (like pharao's egypt and so on). --Raminagrobis fr (talk) 11:31, 14 August 2014 (UTC)


 * I think the last sentence in the lead needs to specify if the percent applies to people just in Africa or if that is a global figure. As it's written, it's not clear. Bali88 (talk) 18:55, 2 December 2014 (UTC)


 * The proposed re-title Discrimination of people with albinism doesn't make sense. In English, that construction means "Visually being able to distinguish people with albinism from other things you are looking at". I think Discrimination against people with albinism is what was meant. The material in this article would all fit under that title as an extreme form of discrimination, and it could be more comprehensive by not focusing solely on violence. The above comment that "persecution" means (to them) "anything that harasses or oppresses (treats unfairly) people with albinism" illustrates the issue very well.  A further one is that in modern usage, "persecution" implies political suppression (often by a politico-religious body), and that doesn't describe the contents of this article.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  11:18, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

2010 incidents
One more article to add on. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/swaziland/7956458/Albino-girl-11-killed-and-beheaded-in-Swaziland-for-witchcraft.html. Will update when I have the time. 202.65.245.7 (talk) 15:04, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

General discrimination
This article needs to broaden to cover discrimination against albinism more generally (and perhaps move to a different name, though I have defended the current article name before given the content as of that writing). A good place to start for journalistic sources might be this article, though Google can probably find more with searches on "albinism" or "albino" and keywords like "discrimination", "bias", "prejudice", "stigma", etc. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 02:12, 9 March 2011 (UTC) And see also the comments above about Afrocentrism. While what's happening in Africa appears to be the most severe type of a persecution of albinistic people going on right now, it isn't the only kind (nor have such murders been limited to Africa historically, even if that's the only place albinophobia is a big deal in the news right now). — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 02:15, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

updates please
Discrimination and social developments can Change rapidly; the last updates to the related public pages have not happened for several years. Please can someone look at this? I've linked some easily available references since the last public ones on this page are several years out of date.

http://www.unicef.org/sowc2013/perspective_hosea.html

http://m.ibtimes.com/deadly-superstition-albino-children-face-discrimination-amputations-murder-east-africa-1115474

http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=5323052 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Inioch (talk • contribs) 18:19, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

It will take significant work, for whomever makes the time to do it. Here're some more recent items:
 * – this problem clearly has not gone away; the Ukerewe island sanctuary for Tanzanians with albinism was attacked by witch doctors' bounty hunters; several attempts have been made on the life of Tanzania Albinism Society chairman Alfred Kapole; lots of other details, incl. albino population of the island as of that writing; grave robbing; activism only effective in the cities; statements from victims and their families; legal response; etc.
 * – I'd bet good money this is the most murderous religious cult in modern history; witchdoctor bounty up to $75,000 (£50,000) per victim; it's not clear that all these arrests are actually persuant upon evidence relating to these crimes, and it might literally be a bit of a witch-hunt, however. Gives usable stats that might also come in handy at related articles: "Albinism is particularly prevalent in Tanzania with one in 1,400 affected ... compare[d] with one in 20,000 in Western countries."
 * – branches out to several Discovery News blog posts (these are editorially controlled and thus are WP:RS, not random-schmoe blogs).
 * The Huffington Post "Tanzania Albinos" article index, 2011–2015, 13 articles (including one on "Tanzania Elects First Albino MP"; needs entry in the notables list at Albinism in popular culture. DONE
 * – see separate post below about UN Secy. Gen.'s statement, while this article links to statement by UN high commissioner for human rights, and to a Red Cross report.
 * – fairly long, detailed article (for the Web, anyway)
 * – has a video, too. See two links at bottom, they could be important: "Attackers Hack Off Seven-Year-Old Albino Boy's Arm in Tanzania" and (background on the local terrorism and power of the witchdoctor cult, who extralegally "execute" every year ~500 "witches", mostly the elderly, who are not in their cult) "Seven Witchcraft Suspects Burned Alive in Tanzania" (it also mentions the albino attacks).

This is just from one page of Ghits. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  12:12, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

UN Secretary General statement
Found this in Spanish, but it can probably be located in English, or just cite and translate from this version: http://www.mundiario.com/articulo/sociedad/personas-albinismo-sufren-aislamiento-mutilaciones-incluso-muerte/20150717140503031741.html  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  11:35, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Situation in African societies versus European sociteties, globalize template
I have put a similar note on the talk page of the article on albinism: Does anyone know about whether people with albinism have it "tougher" in African societies than in European ones? One would think so for various reasons, one being that it is not so ovbivous in a society with mostly white skinned people. Second one being that the sunburn issue is not such a big one. But do we have anything beyond a gut feeling about this? If yes, would be good to add it in the society and culture section. - does anyone have information about the historical situation in Europe with people with albinism? It would be interesting to know if it was a bigger issue in the past but is now less of a "problem", like e.g. with homosexuality or anything deviating from the "norm" in fact. - And I think the article does not give a sufficiently global perspective, which is why I will add the globalize template. Open for discussion of course. EMsmile (talk) 21:41, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
 * The fact that they're being hunted for body parts demonstrates that they "have it tougher" there than elsewhere. "The sunburn issue" is a  problem. It's not about getting a sunburn occassionally, it's about being so burned so much of the time that people with albinism in Africa frequently have multiple melanomas and other forms of skin cancer before they're even 20. But that has nothing to do with the topic of  aritcle; that's a matter for the main Albinism page.  There is no lack of global perspective at  article; it's addressing a primarily African problem, including both Western media and African media and legal responses to it.  It's not like Africa is collectively telling the world "it's an African cultural norm, perfectly acceptable here, to slaughter albinos like livestock". Your vague suspicion that there might be some history of persecution (the topic of this article, remember) of albinistic people in Europe, without any sources for the idea, isn't a reason to tag this article with a dispute template.  It's homework for you to do.  I'm removing this tag from this article, though it may make sense at Albinism (or might not; that's primarily a medical not social article, and I don't now to what extent the health and other issues are covered at that article with regard to Africa and other places; I expect the that coverage is a bit spotty with regard to Latin America and Asia).  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ &gt;ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ&lt;  18:16, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

This article is a disaster
I'll try to cut out some of the most obvious issues, but right now this article basically reads like a stream of consciousness text replete with massively overlong quotes. There's a decent foundation in it all, but I honestly found it completely unreadable; I actually had to try to work through it section by section. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい ) 03:14, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 13 March 2021

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Vaticidalprophet 07:09, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

Persecution of people with albinism → Persecution of people with albinism in Africa – Per WP:PRECISION. The persecution discussed in the article is exclusive to African countries. Sro23 (talk) 04:43, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose - This isn't the purpose of move requests. Unless there's another article documenting this subject outside of Africa then the proposed title is unnecessary disambiguation and possibly a violation of WP:NPOV. HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 07:29, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose unnecessary disambiguation, and it appears to occur only in some parts of Africa according to the article. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  11:11, 19 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Oppose: Looks like it is a problem of perspective being regional per the Globalize tag. Solving this should obliterate the need for moving. ~  Aseleste  (t, e &#124; c, l) 06:40, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Abino Racism myth
Topic on Albino racism is mostly a topic spread by missionaries I have been to Africa 3 times seen albino's never heard or seen acts of violent acts or any practice of taking body parts. By now don't you think many African people know of this condition. Check your information, make sure it's true, the African herbal system is very knowledgeable. To treat that as voodoo you have no any idea what their culture is about. 2600:1702:C10:A270:A9AD:BCBC:9490:8517 (talk) 21:04, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Personal anecdote and argument from incredulity are meaningless here. Cite reliable sources, or there is no point commenting here (see also WP:NOT; this is not a "debate your opinion" venue).  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  21:58, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

This article is terribly written and organised
It reads like a highschooler's social studies essay. The article jumps around from point to point and constantly restates the same information in slightly different wording, and the headings have little to do with the body text. 175.32.116.101 (talk) 00:25, 29 April 2024 (UTC)