Talk:PlayStation 2/Archive 6

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I'm reporting JTBX for vandalism

- I have put warning on his page, and he just keeps erasing them. - In addition, he keeps trying to add "most successful console" WITHOUT any citations. - .... plus even though he's been warned not to do that.

I've had enough of his refusing to listen. I'm reporting him for vandalism. - Theaveng 17:28, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

CHEER! From User_talk:JTBX'S page: "You have been blocked from editing for a period of 48 hours in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for abusing multiple accounts and violating Wikipedia:Neutral point of view." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Theaveng (talk • contribs) 18:28, 11 October 2007
Please don't call it vandalism. Though blockable offense in its own right, disruptive edit-warring is its own thing. This was a difference of opinion; vandalism should only refer to actions with malicious intent. In addition, editing while not signed in is not automatically sockpuppetry, especially when the registered account wasn't blocked at the time, and the user does not appear to be trying to masquerade as someone else. Dancter 19:07, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm going to respectfully object to this block, I do not believe that the user's action called for a 48 hour block. Please see my comment above in the "most successful" section -- Vdub49 20:27, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
When people are trying to disrupt a newsgroup, a forum, or a website, they deserve a slap on the wrist. That's what a temporary ban is. JTBX will be back tomorrow, hopefully having learned his lesson not to be so Obstinate & going against the Consensus. (Jeez; sounds like something from Star Trek Voyager. "And consensus says...") Hopefully he'll listen to the other editors to NOT add "successful console" without citation. - Theaveng 20:53, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
AS stated before, I added a lot of citations, but you have been removing them. So I changed the phrase to 'one of the most successful' but you removed that too. I just don't understand why you would place 'Nintendo has a market share of 85%' that 'experts' have argued though the citation provided did not state anything about this. Also you added the PS2 had 66% share without any citation. You have a problem against seeing this sentence, admit it. You are the real fanboy, and trying to assert your opinion across by removing this sentence, one WITH a citation. And yes, Dancter is correct, I wasn't masquerading, I was auto singed out at the time. Something to do with web page memory cache. JTBX 13:34, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
Most of those citations were not that good. Using phrases such as "one of" sidesteps the real problems of peacock terms (see WP:PEACOCK#Don't hide the important facts), which shouldn't really be used when concrete and objective claims are possible to use. Despite Theaveng's inadequate referencing, the NES did have a larger market share in its time than PS2 ever did, and is a valid metric for commercial success. While still inappropriate (see WP:POINT), the statements were added in an attempt to communicate the points made in discussions here, which at that point seemed to be willfully ignored by you. Please refrain from name-calling, as it is not in keeping with policy on civility, and distracts from the substance of a debate. I'm not conceding any arguments, but given that this dispute has become somewhat trivial, and I would rather focus my editing energies on more fruitful endeavors, I am willing to accept the current compromise statement for now. Dancter 19:07, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
By the way, I was accused of being a Nintendo fanboy. That's funny because right now I don't even own a Nintendo console (my Gamecube was sold because I thought the games were too easy). Or anything made by Mickeysoft. What I am is a classic gamer with thirty years of experience, and that gives me perspective which many of today's younger gamers seem to lack. Atari 2600, NES, SNES/Genesis, PS1.... they all were the best of their respective eras, and it's not fair to those other consoles to ignore what they contributed to today's hobby. They were the foundation, and the PS2 would be nothing without them. To call the PS2 "most successful" is a disgrace to the programmers, artists, and companies from the past generations, as if they do not matter.
The FACT that the PS2 sold 120 million units in only ~5 years time is enough. LET THE READERS DRAW their own conclusions; don't force-feed them with your own. (Almost a direct quote from Wikipedia's "peacocking" page.) - Theaveng 23:05, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
A Console that sold more than 100 million units is the most sucessfull until another console get this. This is a FACT, by simply compare and check numbers. --Ciao 90 14:40, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
^ Ciao's comment. Exactly I agree. Anyway I find it amusing that you are 30 and I am 13. And you always seem to contradict yourself. Above, 'WHO CARES ABOTU SALES!' etc.
Pure numbers alone is not the only measure of "success". One must take into account other factors such as (a) the Atari 2600 and Nintendo ES dominated with 85% of total video consoles sold, while PS2 only had ~66% (with Xbox/Cube taking the rest). (b) There were 2 billion fewer humans back in the 80s, thus limiting how many units either Atari or Nintendo could sell. Smaller population == fewer opportunities for sale; a factor pure sales numbers do not reveal. (c) The fact that Atari gave birth to a brand-new hobby for home entertainment (1977) and Nintendo resurrected the hobby from the dead (the 1983-84 crash) is also a reason why they deserve "most successful", not PS2, because the atari and nes succeeded even though most "experts" predicted gaming was just a fad & they would fail. POINT: There's more to the word "success" then dreamt of in your limited philosophy. - Theaveng 14:07, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

If we just consider gaming; Playstation has done alot of great things. For starters, do you really think that Final Fantasy 7 would have been anywhere near as good, if it ended up on the N64 (where it was originally headed, before Nintendo opted for cartridges)? It would not have been anywhere near as long, nor would it have been as cinematic, and basically, would not have been the masterpiece that we all know and love (and what most of us consider to be the pinnacle of the entire series). We have Resident Evil. The game was only given the go-ahead, because Capcom new that the Playstation's userbase were generally older, and on it there was a market for stronger, more mature material. Not that it never would have happened, but it wouldn't have happened the way it did without the Playstation, and it wouldn't be the game it is today. JTBX 23:58, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree. PS2 is my favorite console (for now). That still does not mean I think it should be labeled "most successful". (See comments above.) Best-selling, yes, but not most-successful. ----- Also: Most Final Fantasy fans consider FF6 to be the best, not FF7. (See various polls.) If you've not played FF6, do so now because it's the better game. ----- And Resident Evil is not the first survival horror game; that was "Haunted House" on the Atari, plus several similar games released on Commodore, Nintendo, CD32, and IBM-compliant PCs. Don't hold-up RE as some grand-new idea, because it isn't. The RE-style genre existed long before PS1 came along. ----- - Theaveng 14:07, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Playstation is responsible for getting gaming out of the nerd fraternity, and into the mainstream. While this is certainly a double-edged sword, there certainly wouldn't be the market for multi-million dollar gaming epics, without what Sony's Playstation did to the industry. Not the booming market we have today, at least. Look at Gran Turismo, it was placed in bars and clubs so it would help push gaming further. JTBX 23:58, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

"Into the mainstream" is a well-worn urban legend that many people like to repeat (along with "Betamax had a better picture" and "porn helped VHS win"), but NONE of these supposed claims are backed by any kind of citations or proof. The previous consoles Super Nintendo and Sega Genesis both sold (combined) ~150 million units, comparable to how many PS1s/N64s were sold overall. I don't see any "explosive growth" as often is claimed. The market size was 150-160 million units for both the 16 bit and 32 bit generations. - Theaveng 14:07, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Now that the games industry is galactic in scale, more money is put into developing games. While sure, alot of crap has come of it, do you really think anyone, let alone SEGA, could have afforded to make Shenmue? Or what about Resident Evil 4? It's not like little gaming masterpieces have been stamped out. PS2 has helped elevate gaming and sold a crazy amount of units, and this all I want to sum up. But you don't read and accuse a news site for a blog? And does it mean all the news sites we use are not 'experts'? I don't want to be involved anymore, do with the article what you want [deleted]. JTBX 23:58, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Please don't reveal my real name on the public forum. That's extremely, extremely rude, and I'm sure it violates some rule somewhere. I've deleted it. - Theaveng 14:07, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Sockpuppetry

Theaveng, just to clarify for me, are you saying that user Ciao90 is a sockpuppet of user JTBX when you commented, "Restored introduction to where it was before JTBX's sockpuppet Ciao90 ruined it. ALSO reading Ciao's talk page -- it appears he needs to be reported."  ? -- Vdub49 18:18, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

That was inappropriate, and not assuming good faith. There is no reasonable basis for suspecting Ciao 90 is a sockpuppet of JTBX, and it seems the accusation was based solely on the fact that both disagreed with Theaveng and reverted his edits. In fact, the Ciao 90 has been critical of JTBX in other comments, which is evidence against sockpuppetry. When communication breaks down, civility is even more crucial. Dancter 19:36, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
I agree, this is getting out of hand, the user JTBX said he didn't want to be involved with this anymore, I can't help but to look at this and think he's being provoked to get back into a discussion. -- Vdub49 20:03, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
I should have said "suspected sock puppet" since I don't know for sure. ----- At what point do we stop "assuming good faith"? Put another way, how many times should we allow a user to knowingly conduct "disruptive editing" before we say "enough is enough". (For the record, I think JTBX passed that point many days ago.) - Theaveng 01:08, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Whether you say "suspected" or not, sockpuppetry is a serious charge, and due diligence is expected of any user who makes such an accusation. From the guideline: "If bad faith motives are alleged without clear evidence that others' editing is in fact based upon bad faith, it can also count as a form of personal attack." Perhaps this is a matter of experience, but to me, even a cursory examination of the contributions histories shows that the sockpuppetry claims do not pass muster. Dancter 20:52, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
That said, it's a shame they both share an apparent unwillingness to engage the finer points of the debate. What I should have done in the first place was request temporary full protection on the article. Vdub49 is probably the only one in this debate who hasn't done any aggressive edit-warring. Dancter 19:32, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
I repeat my question since nobody answered it: At what point do we stop "assuming good faith"? Put another way, how many times should we allow a user to knowingly conduct "disruptive editing" before we say "enough is enough"? - Theaveng 12:43, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
If you think there is sockpuppetry going on then have the courage of your convictions and make a sockpuppet report then see what the results are. Fnagaton 14:59, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
Still didn't answer my question about how to deal with Disruptive editors. - Theaveng 19:00, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
The "assume good faith" guideline describes things well enough, which is why I wasn't particularly motivated to respond. JTBX's account is a little over a month old, and the user could still reasonably be considered a "newcomer". Despite the difficult behavior, the evidence for the malicious intent associated with vandalism and sock puppetry has not been shown. While I tried to convey this in a previous comment, I'm going to quote directly this time: "It is never necessary that we attribute an editor's actions to bad faith, even if bad faith seems obvious, as all our countermeasures (i.e. reverting, blocking) can be performed on the basis of behavior rather than intent." Even the three-revert rule allows for blocks in clear cases of disruptive low-level edit-warring that don't reach three reverts in 24 hours. Dancter 20:16, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks.  :-) - Theaveng 20:47, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
I did answer your question, my answer is above. It means that you should let the community decide by opening a sockpuppet report. If the community decides there is a case for sockpuppetry then action will be taken. If the community decides there isn't then you're going to have to reevaluate your position. Fnagaton 21:34, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
My question wasn't about sockpuppets. It was about disruptive editors. - Theaveng 20:00, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
You are wrong because here, here and here you specifically mention sockpuppetry and you think the editor is being a vandal hence disruptive, so in this specific case and in your question you equate "disruptive behaviour" and vandalism with sockpuppetry. Therefore me mentioning sockpuppetry in my answer is specifically answering your question. Fnagaton 09:13, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Semi-Protect

I suggest we ask for a semi-protection on this page due to vandalism in the last few days. -- Vdub49 23:44, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Speaking of which, someone swapped the PS2 on the main page with an SNES console - I just spotted/fixed this.... it was a little bit odd, to say the least LudBob 05:44, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
I actually don't think it's that bad, but feel free to request it yourself if you disagree. Dancter 00:08, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
It's not that bad now but a few days ago it was very annoying, once you reverted their vandalism they would revert your revert and about two or three people did this. Unless they resume this I don't think that I'll ask for it. -- Vdub49 20:01, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Where do I ask for semi-protection again? -- Vdub49 22:53, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

WP:RFPP. I am not sure there is enough activity for protection, though. -- ReyBrujo 03:23, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

it appears its some "anon" vandalising the place, 168.212.119.120 is their IP, enjoys spamming up the place with Paul and Tony's mum, from his contribs, looks like a lot to the PS2 page, plus others, can this guy be banned? Dar-zero (talk) 20:33, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

3rd Gen

Someone whom has a better knowledge should probably add info on the 3rd gen version of the console detailed here. However why they have released this a year after the PS3 release god only knows! 82.27.224.161 22:05, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Production Run on PS2

When are games for the Ps2 expected to stop selling? HIYO (talk) 01:36, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

PSone had releases in 2004, so expect 2011 or more. --Ciao 90 (talk) 13:59, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Template

I'm removing the template Refimprove, any objections? --Ciao 90 (talk) 14:00, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Capabillities

What is this about? "Ps2 components can guide ballistic missiles" what does that have to do with anything?? It seems irrelevant to me.71.127.88.164 (talk) 00:59, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Gran Turismo Top Selling Game?

I am confused here... who put Gran Turismo as the top selling PS2 game at 14 million units? It has been confirmed that Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas has sold 20 million alone as of September 26, 2007. I think someone needs to change this. Damien Russell (talk) 03:44, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

No, it is not confirmed. The webcast does say that " “Grand Theft Auto III launched in 2001 and sold over 12 million units. We then shipped another sequel in 2002 which sold over 15 million units, Grand Theft Auto: Vice City. And then in 2004 we shipped Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, which sold a remarkable 20 million units ... the entire franchise has sold over 65 million units..." It never specifies that the sales for San Andreas is PS2 only, it can include the Windows and the Xbox versions as well. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 04:40, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
Okay.. but then wouldnt it make it around 45 million just on the PS consoles and the rest on the PC and Xbox? I mean that would make perfect sense since not all games were ported to the Xbox and the two together would account for around 20 million? i dunno.. just seems odd to me.. it's one of the most popular games of all time afterall. Damien Russell (talk) 14:53, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
You have to keep in mind that the "65 million units" sold for the franchise most likely includes the sales of GTA1, GTA2, the GTA games on the PSP, etc. --Silver Edge (talk) 23:58, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Here is a list of all the GTA sales...

http://www.vgchartz.com/games/index.php?name=Grand+theft+auto&console=&region=All&developer=&publisher=&genre=&keyword=&boxart=Both&results=50&order=Hits —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.105.185.247 (talk) 03:46, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Due to consensus at WP:WikiProject Video games, VG Chartz cannot be used as it is an unreliable source, see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video_games/Archive 55#VG Chartz. --Silver Edge (talk) 07:56, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Price history of Spain

Why isn't there?

I know that the very first price was 74500 Pts (but I'm not sure), what I don't understand is the fact that there's no price history about Spain.

Sorry if I have committed a mistake HenryMax (talk) 20:50, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

What are the colours of the PlayStation 2?

What are the colours of the PlayStation 2?

Black Blue Red Yellow Pink Green Silver Orange Purple Brown Grey White —Preceding unsigned comment added by Australiaaz (talk • contribs) 08:47, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Also will be released in Japan only as red [1] Limited time only, I believe Adonai-aus- (talk) 03:28, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Just a small thing on specs

On the xbox page the mod went ahead and put up need citation. Howhever the GC page is wise enough not to put this up.

What those numbers are is basic math fact (talking of T&L), they go by rules and equal similar numbers.

GC I found to be about 6.2M/sec with all lights/effects(texture)/motions/3 bones (bone per triangle) using this formula.

Nintendo goes by 6-12 and state 6 is the rounding of with everything tops. So I trust this leads to about the same numbers inreality Xbox and PS2 can do.

I dissbeleive the raster Triangles as the real ones as this is not 2d transform, now the numbers are factored by the T&L. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BobtheVila (talk • contribs) 18:02, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Just a small thing on Wikipedia. Cite sources. If you have any questions, see this page:Wikipedia:Citing sources. Whoever put the "need citation" tag on the Technical specifications section for the xbox was right. That section does not cite any sources at all.----Asher196 (talk) 23:46, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

They do not have a source because their telling is limited to raw and they do not care like sony and nintendo. Journalist are liers and make people not able to trust to a medium simple math and I guess this is where this is coming form, xbox can't do more then 30M raster triangles, the VS may boost the geometry engine triangle BTW. Z buffer adding polys, also PCvsConsole is bull to.

Experts would agree, as they tell similar numbers(15-20M, 6-12M, 10-30M). I will only make it less exact as i'm not sure on some of this.BobtheVila —Preceding comment was added at 18:20, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Optical audio

I see no details outlining the playstation 2's use of digital optical audio. Why is this? Faucett (talk) 14:21, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

PS2 still selling for a loss?

anyone can answer? might be added to the article Kamuixtv (talk) 13:38, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Interesting snippet of information taken from the xbox page:

Considering the PS2 has sold significantly more copies than the xbox, I presume that Sony may have lost a similar sum of money. A Prodigy ~In Pursuit of Perfection~ 16:45, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

PSP and Wii Ports

Hi, would it be a good idea to comment on the fact that the PS2 has a life-support system of PSP and Wii ports and an example of each? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Anthall1991 (talk • contribs) 19:26, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Can you explain a bit more clearly with use of better grammar? I don't quite understand what your asking of us :-|. A Prodigy ~In Pursuit of Perfection~ 16:47, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Why are you so snobistic ? He is young and may not a native speaker. (idiot !) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.107.11.181 (talk) 14:48, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I know I have bloody well nothin to do with this arguement like, but what the hell?! I can understand what that geezer Anthall1991 is saying! mcjakeqcool Mcjakeqcool (talk) 23:25, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

The History Section

We have to fix the history section. It seems like wrong and exaggerated facts. Also there isnt much history of the PS2 before the launch of it. Tut74749 (talk) 20:25, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Semi-Protection Required

Hi I have noticed a lot of vandelism on the PS2 pages like the fact that the PS2 has shipped 120 million units as of September 210 2009, Which I fixed so I am asking for semi protection for the page thanks Anthall1991 (talk) 13:19, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Price history

Is the price history section necessary? It seems excessive and is currently unverified. None of the other consoles have a huge table like this. 129.120.159.176 (talk) 02:08, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, what you say is true. However, I think we should try and dig up some refs before we just go out and remove the section. Anybody else? RC-0722 247.5/1 02:15, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
I removed it. It was ridiculously large and I don't feel it was encyclopedic.Asher196 (talk) 04:32, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

My new page

Hi, I made a page on how bump mapping is done on ps2 and GC. I'm a newb to wiki still in making an actual artical. Could you help Ps2/gc bump mapping, is it encyclapedia material?--BobtheVila (talk) 17:09, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm by no means an expert on the subject, but it looks to me like you have references and sources, so it wouldn't hurt for you to go ahead and create the article, this way other people can contribute to it, or delete it if necessary. --  Darth Mike  (Talk • Contribs) 08:21, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Nevermind, looks like I'm a bit late and you've already done that... carry on then --  Darth Mike  (Talk • Contribs) 08:24, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

The Power Usage

I need this personally and i also think that this is a vital information, but why isn't it's there? 222.124.78.16 (talk) 11:05, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Specifically what are you talking about? Asher196 (talk) 16:13, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

The power outlet thing probably--BobtheVila (talk) 19:10, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Use of Congolese coltan

Is this section appropriate? No mainstream media has picked up this story. The online outlets that are reporting this all quote the same blog/website (Toward Freedom) for its information. While Toward Freedom is calling this the "PlayStation War" the mineral in question, coltan, is used by all forms of electronics (mobile phones, DVD players, video game consoles, and others). I'm unsure if the source of this information is legitimate enough to qualify it appearing in encyclopedia literature. --TreyGeek (talk) 23:39, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

When I noticed this edit earlier, I looked at the website that is mentioned in the source article. I have never heard this story from any media outlet (as you said), and I think that adding this section might be giving this view undue weight, but I am not an expert in this subject and don't know if there might be more to the story. — OranL (talk) 00:32, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
This seems pretty mainstream Click here Asher196 (talk) 00:52, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
It isn't really appropriate, but neither is having a separate section dedicated to controversies. Due weight is certainly an issue, here. Not to be dismissive of the plight in the Congo, but in the scope of the PS2, this is not relevant enough for what is supposed to be a general overview. It's something that underscores the launch of the PS2 as a significant event in consumer electronics, rather than evidence of any outstanding ethical violation by Sony. This was industry-wide. The text does a respectable job trying to point that out, but the very nature of putting this in the "Controversies" section is problematic. Perhaps this would be worth mentioning in a "History of the PlayStation 2" or "PlayStation 2 launch" article, where there would be room to fit this in its proper context, but no such articles exist at the moment. Dancter (talk) 01:21, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
I don't care either way, I just rewrote the paragraph for clarity. I found some mainstream sources for this, but I also found sources that criticised electronic manufacturers in general. I even found some sources that said Microsoft started the controversy to make Sony look bad. Asher196 (talk) 01:26, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
Just as a comment, this statement is on page two of the article:
If we are going to use this information in this article, it needs to be specifically noted that the PS2 is not the devil, because no one is explicitly blaming Sony for the downfall of Africa. The current section sort of reads like the PS2 was one of the main factors in funding the Second Congo War, and also links to this article using the phrase "brutal conflict". While no one doubts that this was indeed a brutal conflict, this entire section seems to be trying to push an agenda. What about the manufacturers that refined the coltan substance into tantalum? Why aren't they mentioned? Even if it is decided that the PS2 was one of the main contributing factors to the coltan issue, the part about children working in the mines (and everything else like that) doesn't belong in the PS2 article. Readers are already directed to the Second Congo War entry, so they can read more about it there. — OranL (talk) 01:32, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

I've rewritten the section in question. I attempted to make the section more focused on the PS2 and and removed the extraneous information about the Second Congo War. The related articles are wiki-linked so that readers can read more information about those topics. Hopefully, this version will be more agreeable to everyone (including myself). --TreyGeek (talk) 03:11, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Still missing the DTS capable information on the PS2 Wiki. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:PlayStation_2/Archive_3#DTS_Function —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.85.99.166 (talk) 01:04, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

DTS Capable

Still missing the DTS output in games on the main PS2 wiki. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:PlayStation_2/Archive_3#DTS_Function 84.85.99.166 (talk) 01:06, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

GPU - ATi?

Didn't ATi make the GPU? And what is it called? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.108.220.157 (talk) 03:09, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

128-bit?

Why does the infobox state "128-bit "Emotion Engine" clocked at 294.912 MHz"? The Emotion Engine does not support 128-bit integer or floating point data types and no claims of it being able to do so are present in reliable sources such as Computer Architecture, A Quantitative Approach, Third Edition or "Sony's Emotionally Charged Chip". The Microprocessor Report. I suggest that it be changed to "64-bit "Emotion Engine"..." for accuracy and for consistency as the technical section at the bottom of the article makes no claim of the Emotion Engine being 128-bit, nor does the Emotion Engine article. Rilak (talk) 08:50, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

It seems to have been a recent (as in today) edit by an anon ip. I've reverted it. Referring to it as 128-bit is actually a buzz word to refer to that generation of game consoles, due to ignorance about terminology and technological advance; a continuation of the (more correct) "8-bit" and "16-bit" generations. - Zero1328 Talk? 09:29, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
I just checked the edit history and it was indeed changed by an anon ip. I didn't notice it though because I don't watch the page. Perhaps I should have checked the edit history first. Anyways, I think the "64-bit" should be cited, that way we may be able to prevent good-faith edits that are based on misconceptions. I'll get to it a bit later if there are no objections. Rilak (talk) 09:42, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

After yet another revert to "128-bit" from "64-bit", I have cited two reliable sources that support "64-bit":

  • John L. Hennessy and David A. Patterson. "Computer Architecture: A Quantitative Approach, Third Edition". ISBN 1-55860-724-2
  • Keith Diefendorff. "Sony's Emotionally Charged Chip". The Microprocessor Report, Volume 13, Number 5, April 19, 1999. Microdesign Resources.

The first reference is a university-level textbook and the second is an article from The Microprocessor Report, a highly regarded and reliable industry publication. I don't know why it gets changed to "128-bit" from "64-bit", but I hope that these citations will prevent or at least reduce the number of edits due to this. Rilak (talk) 09:14, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Ok make it a quick one

Because i have lost my session data and i am in a hurry for personal reasons i am not going in to a detail discuss of ps2 but it is less powerfull then the competition and this should be noted.

Ok i feel that it needs to be made clear than the PlayStation 2 is no longer the top choice console and is lacking in sales, success and power. For example games that would have been made on the console in it's prime like GTA4 have not been made on the computer because it is lacking in power it has lacked signifently in power to Microsoft's Xbox 360 and Sony's PlayStation 3 and in market share to Nintendo's Wii this has happened for the simple reason it is a Sixth Generation console in a Seventh Generation Market and competition is little to none. Even if it is has not been discontinued and it is still selling it's disadvantages need to be made clear in it's article. I am also trying to edit the Wii article to make clear it's lack of power in this generation but i have not yet got user privilege yet (more on my talk page) because these things do need to be made clear to the public on the non (made clear so it is obvious) wiki simple english articles. Regards Mcjakeqcool Mcjakeqcool (talk) 15:02, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

we're not here to provide a service to our readers. If reliable sources exist which have discussed the PS2's lack of power compared to the current generation then this information may be worth including, but just writing a section on it from personal experience won't be acceptable. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 15:18, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

PS2 has not shipped 140 million

This was a widely reported error that originated at E3 2008. It has shipped 131.3 million upto june 30 this year according to Sony Europe's developer relations manager George Bain speaking at a conference in Ukraine recently. Here is the link (i hope it works) [2] If you add to that shipments for Sonys most recent fiscal quarter (which is Q2 of their current 2009 fiscal year) in which they shipped 2.50 million units of the PS2 this brings shipments to 133.8 million worldwide. Here is a link to Sonys website with all the numbers. [3] Add up the unit sales of hardware from FY 2006 Q1 and the cumulative production shipments then you can see they total 133.8 million. user:GartheKnight 22:48, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

RE: I have updated this article, with your correct results, and made it clear that as of Mid 2008, the ps2 has sold 133.8 million units. mcjakeqcool Mcjakeqcool (talk) 15:30, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree

You are right As of 31.12.2007, the PS2 had sold 127 million units, about a year before that it had sold 120, it is the seventh generation and the PS2's life is coming to a end, ok the PS2 pulled a hat trick in the mid sixth genration to make it's sales rocket, but the first Xbox was always on it's case, but now the PS2 is only selling to a specialized market (people who want to top up there last gen consoles, with some new games, and people who can't afford a next gen console) and that specialized market is not enough to make ps2 sales rocket 13 million, when the 360, ps3, and wii are booming, it's obvilously a error. mcjakeqcool Mcjakeqcool (talk) 10:04, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Quick question...

I know that if I were to phrase what I'm about to say a certain way, I would be told "WP is not a buying guide", but basically, There used to be a summary of every single hardware revision on this page, and now I can't find it. It was very useful, in my opinion, and even if someone weren't in the market, it's helpful to know all the details about such a popular console (especially if you're an enthusiast, or a technician). It wasn't exactly taking up the whole page, either, so I'm just curious why it was taken down or if there's another place it can be found. Thank you. --Dante (talk) 17:25, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

By the way, the cited link under "Hardware revisions" (where the info used to be found), #18, is dead. --Dante (talk) 17:28, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Homebrew Section: Problems and Lies.

I just removed a statement about "ESR" being the "First" to allow people to play game backups on an un-modded console in 2008.

Just for the record, I have been playing back-ups on an un-modded PS2 for years, since about 2002/2003. The particular Exploit that is used has been around for a long, long time.

I am also particularly disturbed by the references to Linux, being in the Homebrew section. Obviously, someone that doesn't know anything about Homebrew on a PS2 added this. Linux has absolutely NOTHING to do with making Homebrew games/applications. We use C, C++ and C#. We use custom compilers for ELF files that was included in the SDK from Sony.

I did not remove the information on Linux, but it has no place in the Homebrew section. If someone wants to move it, or delete it, that would be fine. I think it should probably have it's own section dedicated to the Linux topic and that's about it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.108.188.221 (talk) 03:58, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Two points. First homebrew development is not limited to playing pirated or burned games. Homebrew development includes the ability to create your own software for the console. Linux therefore is significant in providing the end user to produce their own content for the PS2. As for the removal of information in regards to ESR, perhaps it can be rewritten by someone knowledgeable about the subject. However, simply deleting sourced information is not looked highly upon. --TreyGeek (talk) 04:13, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

And you would be wrong. Linux has absolutely NOTHING to do with Homebrew. Tell me, what is the Linux compiler for ELF files? Tell me, in what capacity is Linux useful for in Homebrew?

Linux has NOTHING to do with Homebrew, at ALL!

Also, ESR is NOT about the PS2, this is NOT the "ESR" page.
As far as someone knowing more about it, I am a programmer. I had my OWN boot loader programmed by 2003. So the statement is a lie that he made. Also, I wrote a VERY popular cheat device called Code Majic, that allowed cheating online/offline on ALL games. You don't see me putting it on the main page for the PS2. Also, EVERYONE knows about Swap Majic too. It has been around forever.

Keep the Homebrew section on the topic of homebrew and the homebrew process, NOT the names of software made by Homebrew programmers. Try to get your "e-fame" somewhere else. It is also frowned upon to pretend you invented something that someone else invented. Someone that put in the hours of work and sacrifice to make.
Leave the Homebrew section alone. Leave all references to software names OUT of the article. This article is about a Playstation 2 console. Not copied/renamed software that other people have already invented. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.108.188.221 (talk) 04:25, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

If you use the sony compilers from the official SDK they were either leaked and are in fact pirated copies (in which case you should not be openly admitting this) or you're an officially licensed developer, and not doing "homebrew".
The linux compiler for ELF files: technically it's a linker that produces ELF files, the compiler produces object modules, the linker on linux which produces ELF or a.out files is ld, generally the GNU one is used: http://gcc.gnu.org/install/specific.html
Linux enables applications to run which are not produced with the licensed SDK, it also enables homebrew developers to explore the capabilities of the hardware in a simpler environment, and there have been many people replacing the linux kernel with their own homebrew apps, using the bootloader from the linux kit to start them up. 81.174.255.69 (talk) 11:26, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Who deleted that?!

Why the hell did someone, delete my OFFIAL information about the PS2's sales, I put links and sources in, It could not have been more accuate! Please can someone, if possible whoever edited it, explain to me why, because I put sources and refrences in and explained about it on the User Discussion prior, if someone could explain, that would be much appreciated. Thankyou, mcjakeqcool Mcjakeqcool (talk) 17:14, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

You do realize that the link you provided, [4], does not claim any total sales for the PS2. It presents the sales for 2006 to mid-2008. It lacks information to support your claim of 133.8 million units sold. Two suggestions: 1) Find a source that supports your claim and put that source directly into the article so your claim is supported on the first click, 2) refer to WP:CIT for information on how to properly cite your sources so that bots do not accidentally revert your links/sources. --TreyGeek (talk) 20:11, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
Get back to ya.

I'll get back to ya on that one after I've found more sources then, I'm gonna be down the internet all night finding sources for that, but anyhow saying that, I thought the link I gave was correct anyhow I was giving this link for the other geezer above, who said that E3 made an error, because it is a conquincidence that E3 gave the sales of the PS2 is exzact as 140 million (e.g wii's worldwide sales are at 34.55) so the point im tryin to make is that those sales are not 100% acuate, and the geezer above might have a point, he would'nt get that idea out of nowhere. mcjakeqcool Mcjakeqcool (talk) 11:59, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Dimensions?

Why aren't the physical dimensions of the system noted under Technical Specifications? It would be helpful to those who wish to compare the size of the PS2 to other consoles, or to its revision, the Slim. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.40.235.23 (talk) 08:46, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

No off-switch

Shouldn't it say in the article about the slimline PS2 not having an off switch unlike the original, and information as why it doesn't have one-SCB '92

My page and a link to a forum

Good info can be shared here. I'm uncertain if it's altered enough to put it back up as an article. Tell me if this is so.

http://forums.ps2dev.org/viewtopic.php?t=10644

Link to a ps2 dev topic made. My opinion is that the fanboy console war ruined everything. It has one more year left I guess. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BobtheVila (talk • contribs) 14:27, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

I would remove it from the article as it appears to be link spam. External links to an article are supposed to link to a website directly related to the topic of the article. External links to forums are generally not added and are often removed. --TreyGeek (talk) 14:34, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

I meant the article on my homepage.--BobtheVila (talk) 23:32, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

How about now, as of 2-24-2009? It has some additional detailing in some parts, as well as a resource.--BobtheVila (talk) 22:27, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Total PS2 Units Sold Annually?

Just out of curiosity, there doesn't seem to be any resource that tracks the number of PS2 units sold annually. I'd like to think that there were multiple factors that contributed to why the PS2 increased in sales but there aren't any references that actually kept track of annual sales for the entire lifespan of the PS2. Would anyone happen to have a table of annual sales for the PS2? (Psychoneko (talk) 18:28, 14 February 2009 (UTC))

You know an interesting thing id like to see about this 140 million number, is how many people bought new systems after their disc read errors (having an intact library naturally people would buy a replacement system? That would be a wonderful statistic to report if availalble69.157.64.230 (talk) 00:49, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Very good video

You all should look at this vid and spread it I suppose.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-A-NjRwmgs --BobtheVila (talk) 23:33, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Nonecence

There is no truth in the recent sales figures for the ps2, it has not sold 151 million units it has not even sold 140, it is abousalte rubbish, I will prove it! mcjakeqcool Mcjakeqcool (talk) 19:06, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Interface

"Modem, Ethernet and Internal Hard Disk Drive (single IDE/ATA channel, possible to hook 2 devices to.)" I don't believe mine has this, unless it's referring to the expansion port which is already listed, though the expansion port is not IDE/ATA. In this case there would be no need to restate this. Also the Digital Audio output is not listed. Darktangent (talk) 04:36, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

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