Talk:Political career of John C. Breckinridge

Review comments by Wehwalt
Sorry to have been so slow in my review. Looks quite good, generally, a few things:
 * General comment: Consider having the chronological run-through of political career before the discussion of views. That way people are more familiar with the events you speak of in there. Just a suggestion.


 * Lede
 * "almost three decades". Checking the article, it seems to be 23 years, 1828 to 1851.  Perhaps "almost a quarter century"?  And were there really Democrats before that?
 * Fixed. Re: Democrats before then, John Breathitt, governor from 1832 to 1834, was considered a Democrat. They were clearly fewer back then, though. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:03, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Your capitalization of "vice president" looks to me to be inconsistent.
 * Fixed. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:03, 1 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Formative years
 * "denouncing the Alien and Sedition Acts and asserting that states could nullify it" Them, no doubt, not "it".
 * Yep. Fixed. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:03, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
 * "his friend and law partner," You should probably make clearer that this is the grandson's, not the grandfather's.
 * Yes, this problem plagues me throughout the articles about John C. Breckinridge. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:03, 1 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Kentucky H of R
 * "As a reward for supporting internal improvements," You use the "i i" phrase in the last sentence, so I would suggest changing the last two words to "these projects".
 * Good suggestion. Done. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:03, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Out of curiosity, were these resolutions on the Compromise of 1850 resolutions instructing Kentucky's senators how to vote? I've got an article planned on the legislative election of senators, and resolutions of instruction are all part of that.  Just wondering for future reference.
 * Although I don't have the Heck book in front of me right now, if I remember the chronology correctly, the Compromise of 1850 was more like a list of ideas that formed the basis for a potential compromise than an actual piece of legislation at the time the resolutions were passed, hence the "fair and equitable basis" language. I think they were just kind of saying, "Yeah, we could get behind a plan that looks kinda like that." Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:03, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
 * "the problem was money". Although this article merely covers the political career, a few timely words on how Breckinridge made a living would be a good idea.
 * Edited. How's it sound now? Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:03, 1 April 2013 (UTC)


 * First term
 * Can a percentage or the total votes cast be given? A raw vote margin of victory doesn't give all the necessary info.
 * Required a bit of math, but I added the percentage. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:03, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
 * "Then he denounced Sanders" Strike "then". Also, I'd toss in a "likely" before "Democratic".
 * Done. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:03, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
 * "Millard Fillmore's re-election". You have not mentioned his succession, and you may get some heat about "re-election"
 * Oops! Forgot Fillmore succeeded Taylor. How about I just call him the "incumbent", as I have now? Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:03, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
 * " Fillmore held unclear views on slavery" They were perhaps clear to Fillmore! Perhaps something along the lines that Fillmore had not fully disclosed his views on slavery.
 * Good suggestion. Done. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:03, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
 * "After his maiden speech, Breckinridge took a more active role in the House." More active than what? He spoke on the day he was sworn in!
 * Oops! I was off by a year on the date of his speech. Davis goes into some detail about how newly-elected reps tried to get the floor to say pretty much anything to show that they were doing their jobs (and hence worthy of re-election), contrasting this with Breckinridge, who was apparently admired by his more senior colleagues for his restraint. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:03, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
 * " Andrew Johnson's Homestead Act," I'd preface it with a "Tennessee Representative" or similar, and call it the Homestead Bill, as it was not enacted until 11 years later, using a pipe.
 * Fixed. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:03, 1 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Second term
 * Introductory paragraph. I'm a bit confused by the sequence of events.  Washington Territory was not organized until March 2, 1853.  Wouldn't waiting to decline the governorship leave very little time for re-election? You need to be clearer about the month and year that these elections took place in (including for the first term). I'm gathering that like Tennessee, they sometimes didn't bother to have the election until the term started, after all, Congress wasn't going to convene until December. But that doesn't explain his maiden speech.  Also … Governor of Washington Territory .. in 1853 (I've just read one of Ezra Meeker's memoirs) when there was nothing there … that seems like a reward you'd rather not have because it would sideline you from national politics.  It also makes me wonder why he would seek it at all.
 * Well, hopefully, the maiden speech issue has been cleared up. The dates of the 1851 election were August 3-4, 1851; I would assume the 1853 elections were in a similar time frame. I don't have the exact date of the election that took Crittenden out of the running as a competitor – only the year – but he had to be elected by the General Assembly, which convenes January through March or so, unless he was elected in a special session. As for Governor of Washington Territory, I know that by the end of Breckinridge's second House term, his wife was pushing him to leave national politics anyway, so that sentiment might have already been present in 1853. Also, financial troubles were probably a factor again. Being one of the first lawyers in that area could have made for a lucrative practice a few years down the road. That's guesswork on my part, though. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:03, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
 * "and he decided to decline it " The "and" should not be there.
 * Done. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:03, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Given that you are detailing the other side's shenanigans towards Breckinridge in his second congressional election, if he also indulged in such things then, and if the source says so, you should mention it. As one of Hanna's biographers put it, this was the way the game was played on both sides.
 * It's very ambiguous. Davis says that Breckinridge's friends raised money "to counteract the damage the Whigs were doing". While he goes as far as to give the amounts Letcher supporters were paying people to not vote or to vote for Letcher, this one statement is all that is said about how Breckinridge used the few thousand dollars he raised. If the estimates of $30,000 to $100,000 raised by the Whigs are accurate, it is difficult to believe the $4,000 to $5,000 raised by Breckinridge could effectively combat widespread vote buying, but who knows? Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:23, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * "Democracy". Suggest a footnote or parenthetical indicating that he was talking about the party.  That may be lost on a 21st century reader
 * Hmm. Wouldn't have expected that, but it's easy enough to add the footnote. Done. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:23, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * 80 out of 234 re-elected is very low by today's standards. If it was less so by the standards of the time, I would say so.
 * Heck seems to imply that it was also low at that time. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:23, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * "Ways and Means committee" I would think you would capitalize the C as part of the usual name of the committee.
 * Done. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:23, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * "Southerners thwarted his previous attempts" Perhaps "Southerners had thwarted his previous attempts to accomplish this", perhaps tossing in the fact that the territories might become free states, helping to outvote the South. Also, you sort of dance around the point that the K-N act was passed, but you never quite close the deal on it.  You should also explain how it was the South did not block the K-N act, as you've mentioned that they thwarted Douglas's previous attempts.
 * OK, I think I've tidied this up. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:23, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * "Had it taken place, Breckinridge could have been removed from the House; the 1850 Kentucky Constitution " this was long before Powell v. McCormick, of course, but would a clause in a state constitution have really removed him from office? I can see state officials might have kept him off the ballot in future elections.
 * It's impossible to say for sure, of course, but I think it's possible. If he became ineligible for the office by participating in a duel, the seat could have been declared vacant and a new election ordered by the General Assembly. As evidenced by the subsequent gerrymandering of the district, the Whigs had both the votes and the motivation to take such an action. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:23, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * "paid only debts those related to powers" Issue here.
 * Yep, a word order issue. Fixed. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:23, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * "removing over 500 Democrats and adding several hundred Whigs " perhaps "substituting several hundred Whig voters for Democrats by replacing … "
 * Reworded. See what you think. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:23, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * "The ascension of the Know Nothing Party further hindered Breckinridge's re-election chances." A few words as to why would be good. I'd also toss a "nativist" or "anti-immigrant" in front of the party name.
 * Fixed. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:23, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * "the salary was insufficient" If I'm correct that the minister was expected to pay for many of his own expenses out of the salary, that might be worth a mention.
 * Davis strikes a glancing blow at this, but doesn't say it outright. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:23, 2 April 2013 (UTC)


 * U.S. Vice President
 * "presidential elector " When? Surely not in 1856?  And if before then, why would that carry particular weight of itself?
 * Davis says that, at the state Democratic convention in Louisville in 1856, Powell supporters had the pleasure of "seeing Breckinridge appointed a state elector and delegate to Cincinnati". Not sure how else to read it. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:23, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I guess they made nominations for elector. The Whigs could have carried Kentucky.  Perhaps nominated?--Wehwalt (talk) 18:20, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
 * No, you'll notice the article says the Democrats carried Kentucky in 1856 for the first time since 1828. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 18:34, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
 * "Tennessee's Andrew Johnson" "Tennessee Governor Andrew Johnson". I really don't see the need to link the name of states, generally, except for in this article probably Kentucky and possibly Iowa.
 * Fixed the title. I do prefer to link state names in case non-U.S. readers are not familiar with them. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:23, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * "electoral college " caps, I think.
 * Apparently so. Fixed. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:23, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * If the prayer resolution session was the only time B&B were alone, who was present the other times they met? The Secretary to the President?
 * It isn't really clear. I get the impression that Buchanan rarely was in the same room with Breckinridge at all. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:23, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * "a fourth defeated Johnson's Homestead Act." Homestead Bill, I suggest. I mention this incident in Johnson's article. Also, does the VP ever actively debate? Especially the 19th century vice president?  I'm a bit taken aback by the suggestion that but for his desire to be seen as an impartial moderator, he'd have been fighting in the trenches of Senate debate. I'm not even sure he was allowed to rule on questions raised to the chair, because I know Hobart changed that.
 * I didn't really mean to imply that a desire to be impartial motivated his non-interference. Certainly, the rules of debate dictated that, something that clearly frustrated Breckinridge. Davis writes that he had much more influence as a legislator under Pierce than as vice-president under Buchanan. But I also wanted to note that, despite his strong feelings on the issues of the day, he tried – and succeeded in the opinion of most – to be impartial in his duties. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:23, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * " Kansas's approval" perhaps "the voters of Kansas Territory's approval"
 * Fixed. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:23, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * You should toss a year into the final paragraph, two if the events happened in different years.
 * Done, but the preceding paragraph falls chronologically between the two. Do you see that as a problem from a prose standpoint? Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:23, 2 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Prez election of 1860
 * "they adjourned" refers to convention, so should be "it". I'd make it clearer that Guthrie was also a Kentuckian, perhaps by adding "as favorite son" after his first mention.
 * Done. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:23, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * "On June 25, Jefferson Davis" His famous office so blinds people to the rest of his political career that I think you have to throw a "Mississippi Senator" in there.
 * Done. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:23, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * " his strength in the south" Consistently with the usage of this article, should be South.
 * Done. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:23, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * " rather than a compromise Democrat" reads strangely, you might want to frame it if the source supports about an unwillingness to vote for a slavery supporter, or possibly a Southerner.
 * I don't have the source in front of me, but I've changed this to "compromise candidate" pending further investigation. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:23, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * "Reminding the audience that Douglas wanted the Supreme Court to decide the issue of slavery in the territories, he pointed out that Douglas then denounced the Dred Scott ruling and laid out a means for territorial legislatures to circumvent it.Reminding the audience that Douglas wanted the Supreme Court to decide the issue of slavery in the territories, he pointed out that Douglas then denounced the Dred Scott ruling and laid out a means for territorial legislatures to circumvent it." I'm not sure I see the relevance of this to B's candidacy.
 * I read it to be a charge of "flip flopping" by Douglas, an accusation that seems to have carried political weight since the beginning of American political history. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:23, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Check over your capitalization of "Southern" to ensure it is as you would have it (there's at least one, in another section, "pro-Southern", which looks a bit odd to me. Also, "southern states" is inconsistently capitalized.)
 * I'm always torn between the idea of "south" and "southern" as a regional designation or a simple geographic descriptor. I think I've at least got it consistent now. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:23, 2 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Aftermath
 * " on a compromise" strike, not needed.
 * Done. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:23, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * "Governor Magoffin refused to endorse the resolution, preventing its enforcement." Short of with a gun, it was difficult to see how they would enforce it anyway, which was the problem with resolutions of instruction and the like.
 * True, but Davis credits the lack of endorsement with preventing enforcement. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:23, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * That's all I got. Well done.--Wehwalt (talk) 15:30, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the delay. Since I got my new computer, I've been spending an inordinate amount of time playing Civilization V instead of doing Wikipedia. Have responded to some comments above. Hope to get to the rest soon. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:03, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
 * All responded to. Some may need follow-up. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:23, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm OK with what you've done in response to my comments.--Wehwalt (talk) 23:29, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

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