Talk:Raid on Yakla

Comments
Rubbish weasel words and hyperbolae removed--Petebutt (talk) 04:56, 2 February 2017 (UTC)


 * One's man's "weasel words" are another man's plain-spoken truth.StyxinConn47 (talk) 06:28, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

Wikpedia Coverup role
Will wikipedia editors attempt to aid a coverup on a failed mission by affecting editing of this article? 174.24.17.243 (talk) 18:57, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

Coordinate error
The following coordinate fixes are needed for:

Yatla, Al Bayda Governate, Yemen

—StyxinConn47 (talk) 06:41, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I've emended the coordinates in accordance with the (poor) sources I've been able to dig up. Aden was definitely the wrong place. Deor (talk) 11:12, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

Neither Yakla village or District?
This article says both Yakla District in the info box and Yakla village, Qifah District in the introduction. Which is it and why isn't either Yakla or Qifah districts listed on the page for Al Bayda Governorate?08:00, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

Claims that Previous Administration vetoed this raid multiple times
I've added an unreliable source tag in the Background section of this article to a citation claiming that the raid was vetoed multiple times by the previous administration. The article cited quotes an unnamed source that contradicts bipartisan and nonpartisan accounts of the timeline leading up to the raid, all of which claim that the previous administration approved of the raid after review with the US NSC and scheduled the raid based on nighttime light conditions (specifically the next moonless night), all around the end of the year.

Wiki guidlines for the Unreliable Source template state "This tag should not be used on unreliably sourced contentious statements about living persons; if the source is not reliable, the statement should be removed immediately." However, I left the statement in so that someone with the time (or myself when I get it) can come in to address the claim in a better way than outright removing it on first review.

50.203.249.21 (talk) 21:06, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

Proposed merge with William Owens (Navy SEAL)
WP:ONEEVENT. Owens is only notable for his death in the Yakla raid. This article does not have a lot of information in it. All of the relevant information can easily be merged to the Yakla raid article without significantly increasing its length. JDDJS (talk) 02:59, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose. As per Notability (people), "The person has received a well-known and significant award or honor, or has been nominated for one several times.".Zigzig20s (talk) 07:45, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose - Same as above. Also, William Owens is a person, not a component of a raid. Given that, why should a person notable enough to have an article be reduced to just a column or two inside of another article? It makes no sense. LightandDark2000 (talk) 11:57, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose. More than notable at the current date, can't understand how he would be included in the raid article. Semmendinger (talk) 03:17, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Absolutely not. Close the discussion. Greater thought should have been give before it was initiated. Le Prof. 73.210.155.96 (talk) 07:25, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Getting more and notable by the day now. Manxruler (talk) 10:10, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Zigzig20s makes a convincing case. Edwardx (talk) 12:22, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Merge. Death in war is tragic without a doubt, but Wikipedia is not a memorial. In citing "The person has received a well-known and significant award or honor, or has been nominated for one several times." above I am not sure what award is being referenced. Past precedent has been that a single Silver Star nor multiple the Bronze Star Medals are not sufficient to confer notability. Only the highest (Medal of Honor) or multiple awards of the second highest award (Navy Cross) do that. While an award nomination may be forthcoming, we cannot predict that. This is a case of WP:ONEEVENT, Owens is only at this point known for dying during a raid that has been the subject of much Monday morning quarterbacking. Preserving the article in the Yakla raid page keeps the information should Owens subsequently cross the threshold of notability. EricSerge (talk) 16:57, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 17:32, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment. Can an administrator please remove the "merge" tag? There appears to be overwhelming consensus to keep both articles.Zigzig20s (talk) 21:11, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose It must be notable for his mom, please take the tag down, and preferably archive this discussion Seraphim System  ( talk ) 05:24, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

How many women and children were killed?
This article currently (Feb 16, 2017) states: "According to medical reports, eight women and seven children, aged 3 to 13, were killed in the raid." The source for these figures is: "US raid in Yemen kills American 8-year-old daughter of al-Awlaki - Al Arabiya English". Al Arabiya English. 2017-01-31. http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/gulf/2017/01/31/US-raid-in-Yemen-kills-American-8-year-old-daughter-of-al-Awlaki.html

However, today (Feb 16, 2017) I found a source (NBC News) that claims that nine women and ten children were killed. Extract: "Survivors and witnesses say at least 25 Yemenis were killed, including 10 children and nine women." Source: "Navy SEAL Raid in Yemen: Ally of U.S.-Backed President Killed." Associated Press. Feb 16 2017. http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/navy-seal-raid-yemen-ally-u-s-backed-president-killed-n721616

Should this article be updated?

LeeBobBlack (talk) 21:41, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

List of child victims aged under 13 as given by villagers
https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2017/02/08/nine-young-children-killed-full-details-botched-us-raid-yemen/

List of child victims aged under 13 as given by villagers: 1. Asma Fahad Ali al Ameri, 3 months. 2. Aisha Mohammed Abdallah al Ameri, 4 years. 3. Halima Hussein al Aifa al Ameri, 5 years old. 4. Hussein Mohammed Abdallah Mabkhout al Ameri, 5 years old. 5. Mursil Abedraboh Masad al Ameri, 6 years old. 6. Khadija Abdallah Mabkhout al Ameri, 7 years old. 7. Nawar Anwar al Awlaqi, 8 years old. 8. Ahmed Abdelilah Ahmed al Dahab, 11 years old. 9. Nasser Abdallah Ahmed al Dahab, 12 years old.

Notes on the data: an older boy, 17-year-old Abdallah Ahmed Abad al Zouba is also reported by villagers to have died — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.127.207.61 (talk) 00:15, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

AQ Affiliation
We now have conflicting claims regarding the Al Qaeda affiliation of participants in the confrontation. Two sources, the Associated Press and Al Jazeera, say that the principal target Abdel-Raouf/Abdelrauf al-Dhahab repeatedly denied Al Qaeda affiliation. Likewise, the household of Abdallah Mabkhout al Ameri is reportedly (according to the Bureau of Investigative Journalism) a target of the raid, but unaffiliated. And, the Associated Press reports, "Caught in the al-Dhahabi house was a delegation of 15 men from another family who had come seeking al-Dhahab's mediation for the release of a relative snatched by al-Qaida. The family's leader, Sheikh Seif al-Joufi, in his 80s, stepped out of the house and was shot dead, according to several witnesses." The US military and an AQAP statement instead descibe al-Joufi an Al Qaeda militant.

According to BIJ report:
 * At some stage, al Qaeda militants who had encamped in the nearby Masharif and Sharia mountains descended to engage the US commandos in a fight which would last over two hours. AQAP say 14 of its men died in total: six villagers and eight others.
 * The villagers say 25 civilians died alongside a group of militants, including nine children under the age of 13. They deny that any of the dead villagers were AQAP members.

In short, we have agreement from all sides (US military, AQAP, Yakla villagers) that there were at least 8 AQ fighters. Beyond that, we have fundamental disputes about whether the locally residing belligerents were AQ affiliates. I think the infobox needs to reflect that.--Carwil (talk) 04:33, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Anyone affiliated with/working with AQAP is technically an AQAP member, simple and short. LightandDark2000 (talk) 08:44, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

I think it would be wrong to remove Ryan Owens' page
When in doubt don't.

Yakla village
Here is a source with a map that pinpoints the location of the Yakla raid. I believe that that is where the "Yakla" village is probably located. LightandDark2000 (talk) 12:26, 10 March 2017 (UTC)