Talk:Rejang alphabet

Text licensed under GFDL, confirmed
Copied from User:Evertype: Hi, I was working on Suspected copyright violations and encountered the Rejang script article. It seems to be a direct copy & paste from which you also used as a source in the article. Normally (with new editors) I would put a copyvio tag but since you're not a new editor I thought it's better to check it with you if the material is licensed under a free license or public domain. Cheers, Garion96 (talk) 12:57, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I think, by contributing, Michael Everson (User:Evertype) is licensing the text from N3096 (he being its author) under GFDL. So: not copyvio. – Kaihsu 15:33, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your message on my talk, I am glad it's not a copyvio. For the next time, would it be possible for you to make a note on the original website/document that re-use is permitted under the GFDL and state at the talk page where to find that note? Just in case some other editor working on copyvio's tags your articles. Garion96 (talk) 18:04, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Copied from User:Garion96: It can't possibly be a copyright violation as I wrote the original document from which the text was copied and pasted. Evertype 14:56, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Rejang script, not "Kaganga"
I object VERY strongly to your moving of this article from its commonly-known English name to "Kaganga" which is just a word for alphabet. Please do not do this. I also object to what you have been doing to other scripts, and I will revert them and take this up with the wider community if necessary. Thank you. -- Evertype·✆ 18:38, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Names?
According to this, the Rejang script has many other names, such as Ka Ga Nga, Toba, Karo, Mandailing, Kerinci, Minangkabau, Lampung, Surat Ulu, Musi Banyuasin, Ogan, Bengkulu, but the most popular name is Rencong. But I don't know if it's reliable.Vizio 19:01, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Merge discussion
Rencong and Rejang appear to be different names for the same alphabet. The Unicode block given in the two articles is the same. I suspect that Rejang alphabet and Rencong alphabet should be merged. -sche (talk) 09:28, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I don’t know anything about the scripts, but the dutch WP says they’re closely related, though not the same. My guess is it’s the same script, but different writing systems (and alphabets). — Christoph Päper 16:34, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

The term rencong is apparently related to incung, one of the names of the Kerinci script. The term rencong was used by one of the Malay tribes of central Sumatra, and was popularized by Westenenk. The term rencong is, however, nowhere used outside of that particular area. Another, far more common name for the script is Surat Ulu (upstream script). I suggest therefore that the Rejang alphabet and rencong alphabet shall be merged under a new heading "Ulu Script". If we continue to use the term "Rejang alphabet" then we neglect the fact that the script used by the Rejang people is in fact the same as the script used by the neighbouring Lebong. Once we move further into the Lembak, Bengkulu or Serawai districts we will encounter slightly differnet versions of the script, but the differences are so small that all the Ulu scripts of bengkulu and South Sumatra should be covered under one single entry, Ulu Script. The term kaganga that has been proposed by others, is a rather odd invention bythe British anthropologist Jaspan, who apparently was not aware that not only the Rejang script has ka ga and nga as it first three letters, but dozens of other scripts including many Indian scripts. Ukozok (talk)


 * SIMILAR BUT DIFFERENT
 * I dissagree. I'am native Lampung and I'm user Lampung alphabet. However, These scripts are different. There are similarity among those scripts (Rejang, Rencong, Lampung) because they are sister system. But, for your information they have many dissimilarities. They have their own Consonant forms, diacritics, numeral systems, and other symbols.


 * I can write and read Lampung script but i can't do the same to Rejang nor Rencong.
 * As an analogy, Balinese script and Javanese script is similar too, but why don't you discuss to merge these pages?
 * --Adi yuza (talk) 16:43, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

ACTION NEEDED
We have two articles "Rejang alphabet" and "Rencong alphabet" addressing the same script. The two articles should be merged under a new title. The term "Rejang script" is a misnomer and should not be continued. The term RENCONG is locally virtually unknown and should hence also not be used as the title of the article. The two existing articles "rencong script" and "rejang alphabet" should be merged under the new title "Central Sumatran Ulu Scripts" which should cover the script used in Rejang, Lebong, Bengkulu, Serawai, Komering, Lembak, and Pasemah. I am willing to write the article as long as someone renames "Rejang alphabets" to "Central Sumatran Ulu Scripts" and deletes the aricle "Rencong alphabet".

The term REJANG is a geographic and linguistic term which is also used for the ethnic group of Rejang people. The Rejang are speakers of the Rejang language, but manuscripts written by ethnic Rejang are almost always produced in the Malay language. The script used by the Rejang is shared by other people in the region who do speak different dialects and languages but also write in Malay. The term "Rejang script" is hence a misnomer (just like people erroneously use the term "English script" when what in fact they mean is the Latin script). The script used by the the people of Rejang, Lebong, Bengkulu, Lembak, Pasemah, Komering, and Serawai is one single script with only very slight local variations.

The most popular term that is used by the actual users of the script is Surat Ulu (Letters of the Highlands). This is the term that in my opinion should be used. The term surat ulu is also the preferred term used by philologists of the University of Bengkulu. The script has been given the name RENCONG by the Dutch administrator and anthropologist Westenenk. This term is only used by a very limited community of users of the script. The British anthropologist Mervin Jaspan later coined the term KAGANGA which is rather misleading. Jaspan was apparently not aware that almost all scripts of India and Southeast Asia start with the letters Ka, Ga, and Nga.

Surat Had Lampung is closely related to the Ulu scripts, but should probably get its own Wikipedia article as the differences are large enough to speak of two related but distinct scripts. Furthermore, unlike surat ulu alphabets, Lampung does not use the term "surat ulu" for its script.

The Kerinci script has a name which is very similar to the term "rencong". It is called the INCUNG script (Surat Incung). The script is very similar to the Ulu scripts but as it has its own name it should also be covered under a separate Wikipedia article (which I can write as well). The article should be called "The Kerinci Incung Script"

So let's stop discussing and take action. As I am not a Wikipedia administrator I cannot rename and delete articles, and don't even know how to do that. If someone does this for me, I will write the new articles. Thank you. Ukozok (talk) 23:36, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

How do I type Rejang script on Wikipedia?
I am struggling to figure out how to type Re ꤽꥍ (as in 'Rejang'). Could you please show me how it is done? I'd truly appreciate that. Thank you. --120.146.159.239 (talk) 02:33, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

How the hell do you get these characters to render?
I've installed both "Code2000" and "Code2001", and chose them for all the font options in Google Chrome, but these Rejang characters still aren't rendering! What's the problem? Information online seems to indicate that Rejang glyphs are definitely included in these "Code" fonts, which is why I downloaded them in the first place! I really, really don't understand what I'm missing. 1.157.95.133 (talk) 03:12, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Try "Noto Sans Rejang" at https://www.google.com/get/noto/#sans-rjng DRMcCreedy (talk) 05:49, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Rencong vs. Rejang
This is another one we might have to cleanup. According to Christopher Miller, "Rencong" (aka as "Surat Ulu") is a "script group" that comprises several "scripts" that were used for specific languages. While there are some differences in the way letters are written, it seems that we basically have a Rencong script with various alphabets (in our terminology). See also the comments above by @Ukozok who IRL is an expert in this matter. Austronesier (talk) 09:38, 4 September 2022 (UTC)


 * I made a start, but need to get to bed. — kwami (talk) 10:46, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
 * The way the Indonesian wiki has done it is by creating a page for the "Ulu script" (id:Surat Ulu), with links to the variants. The Indonesian page has some sourced footnotes indicating that the term Ulu is found in ancient manuscripts and is used by the local community, while "Rencong script" is an invention by the Dutch. I think Rencong script should thus be renamed to Ulu script. For the variants, enwiki has only Rejang alphabet which is quite short, while the Lampung alphabet and Incung alphabet are missing. We could keep it the way it is and hope somebody will translate from Indonesian/write a new article for the missing variants, or we merge Rejang alphabet with Ulu script and add some more information for the other variants. --Glennznl (talk) 13:05, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I'd prefer to not merge, since there's apparently significantly geographic variation in form (different hands at least), and currently the script article is illustrated with Kerinci. Also, we say that Rejang was used for Malay, but then it would be a Malay alphabet, not Rejang, unless they really used the same orthography. Sounds like the Malay alphabet used the Rejang variant of the Ulu script. I think that's enough merging.
 * As for the name, no opinion. Neither is going to be particularly common in English. — kwami (talk) 19:10, 4 September 2022 (UTC)