Talk:Rhodri Morgan

Confusion
There's a little confusion going on here, in that the title of the head of the Welsh Assembly changed from "First Secretary" to "First Minister" (see First Minister). Alun Michael was the first First Secretary. In February 2000 he resigned, and was replaced by Rhodri Morgan. In October 2000 a new coalition cabinet was established and the term "First Minister" was adopted. So Morgan is the first First Minister, but the second person to hold that post. Or something. I think. --rbrwr —Preceding undated comment was added at 19:00, 12 April 2003 (UTC).
 * You're right -- it is confusing!! -- Arwel —Preceding undated comment was added at 19:03, 12 April 2003 (UTC).
 * Better off calling the both of them "First Minister" really. The title shouldn't be too important.
 * Draig goch20 17:40, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Out of date
I think the statement about Labour having an overall majority in the Assembly is out of date - I seem to remember that one of their AMs has defected/been expelled or something, but can't remember the details. Perhaps somebody could add the information? Rhion 13:30, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Category: Leaders of political parties in Wales
I have removed this twice and politely notified the author (Mais Oui!) of his error. I'll do so here, and hopefully he'll stop attempting to reinsert it.

Rhodri Morgan is not a leader of a political party. Fully stop. The Labour Party has provision in its constitution for just one leader, who at present it Tony Blair. There is no position of leader of the Welsh Labour Party.

Rhodri Morgan is leader of the National Assembly Labour Party, the group of (currently) 29 Assembly Members who sit in the National Assembly for Wales. And that's it.

I hope this clarifies things. Please discuss here before making further amendments to this part of the article. Thanks. Normalmouth 06:58, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

One Legged Duck
Anybody fancy adding something about his famous mistakes, such as comparing something to a wounded one legged duck on Newsnight, or something along those lines. He's won a few awards for these mistakes, they really should be noted ;) —Preceding unsigned comment added by DafyddLlyr (talk • contribs) 01:38, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree along with his DUP gaff Scifry2007 16:07, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Even though
Even though his first title is First Secretary I think that the First Secretary and First Minister titles should not be treated seperately. Even though some can argue that he is the 1st First Minister, he can also be considered as some people as the 2nd First Minister. I am going to place 2nd Next to First Minister for Wales. If there are any objections, please note them on my talk page or here.

Amlder20 19:27, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Welsh name?
Is Rhodri Morgan a Welsh name? How to read it?--Fitzwilliam 12:58, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes it is. http://www.bwrdd-yr-iaith.org.uk/cynnwys.php?pID=222&langID=2 Pondle 23:28, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Updated link to people's names - pronunciations on mp3 (click on 'Track 04: People's names', Rhodri given after Rhys and before Siôn): here. Cheers, Daicaregos (talk) 12:41, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Rhodri Morgan.jpg
Image:Rhodri Morgan.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot 02:29, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Christopher Glamorganshire and sexual harassment in the WAG
A lot of this material is duplicated word-for-word in the Jon Shortridge article. Do we need so much detail here? Besides, aren't WAG employment matters a responsibility of the Permanent Secretary and the Cabinet Secretary (as head of Her Majesty's Civil Service) rather than a politician? Pondle (talk) 11:01, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Rhodr Morgan is responsible for the civil service within the devolved areas
 * Bear in mind WP:UNDUE and WP:SOAP. You're adding the same material to multiple articles in way too much detail. Frankly, it looks like you have a personal agenda.Pondle (talk) 16:53, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

No personal agenda. These references are well documented and Rhodri Morgan is responsible for the civil service within the devolved areas of government. This is a trying time for a new executive and facts are facts. Cardiffcat (talk) 02:07, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not arguing with your references - I'm objecting to this material on the basis that:
 * (a) its excessive length contravenes WP:UNDUE: "An article should not give undue weight to any aspects of the subject, but should strive to treat each aspect with a weight appropriate to its significance to the subject. Note that undue weight can be given in several ways, including, but not limited to, depth of detail, quantity of text, prominence of placement, and juxtaposition of statements."
 * (b) you've added identical text to multiple articles, which at the very least is inelegant, and at worst raises questions about your motivation for these edits. I'm going to request editor assistance on the issue of repeating identical material in different articles, and ask for a third opinion on the specifics of the Rhodri Morgan entry.Pondle (talk) 17:27, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Third opinion: The edit is giving undue weight to the matter. I'm reverting it, but I don't see why it shouldn't be included as 1) a one or two sentence blurb, or 2) a stub leading to an article on the subject. Neither of those would be disproportionate. arimareiji (talk) 19:20, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Infobox - nationality
Rather strangley, Rhodri Morgan's nationality is noted as British in the infobox. Any objections to changing it to Welsh? Daicaregos (talk) 12:57, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Welsh Labour Party/The Labour Party
The Welsh Labour Party is not registered with the electoral commission (see here). Therefore, while politicians can be members of the WLP, they represent the The Labour Party for electoral purposes. Daicaregos (talk) 11:14, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

For all attent and purposes he is a Welsh Labour Party member and politican. The Welsh Labour Party has significantly different policies to the UK Labour Party. So I've reverted it back. --Welshsocialist (talk) 21:19, 28 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree with Dai. If the Labour Party is who he's registered with, that's what we need to report.--Cúchullain t/ c 21:56, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

The Welsh Labour link, explains that Welsh Labour is part of the Labour Party UK. I don't quiet see the issue with it. I think it is very misleading to link it to the UK Labour party, when there is "clear red water" between the Welsh Labour and Labour at the UK level. The Party in Wales is also referred to as Welsh Labour, and it has a seperate website. --Welshsocialist (talk) 19:22, 29 January 2010 (UTC)


 * He's registered with the Labour Party, not "Welsh Labour", which is just the Labour Party as it operates in Wales. I've changed it so that "Welsh Labour" is also linked. Having its own website is immaterial, one would think, Cardiff Labour has its own site as well.--Cúchullain t/ c 20:44, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Nationality
It is extremely insulting to suggest that Wales is not a nation. MOS:BIO shows how the opening paragraph should be set out. It includes a link to Nationality of people from the United Kingdom. I have changed the opening paragraph per MOS:BIO. Please do not delete reference to his Welsh nationality again. Daicaregos (talk) 11:04, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


 * No one said Wales wasn't a nation. I said the article on Welsh ethnicity doesn't get linked in the intro, per WP:MOSBIO and the conventions laid out in the essay Nationality of people from the United Kingdom. Nationality is what is linked in the intro. According to MOS:BIO, "In the normal case this will mean the country of which the person is a citizen or national..." I.e., the correct linkage is 'Welsh' (though there doesn't have to be a link at all). It is possible to be a Welsh politician (or writer or actor or whatever) who isn't one of the Welsh people, and it is possible to be an ethnic Welshman who doesn't live in Wales.--Cúchullain t/ c 13:33, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I apologise. I misunderstood your edit summary here, coupled with a complete delinking of Welsh. I'm not too bothered if it is linked: Welsh or Welsh, but most recent edits seemed to be English, British , etc. and I'm happy to go with the flow. Although I disagree with your interpretation of what a Welsh politician (or writer or actor or whatever) is. If it is a (for example) Greek person who is a politician (or writer or actor or whatever) in Wales, they should be noted as a Greek (or Greek ) politician (or writer or actor or whatever), noting that they are based in Wales. I won't object if you change the link to Welsh , but it should be linked. Daicaregos (talk) 14:01, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


 * No problem. Looking around, though, there is a wide inconsistency in how nationality is linked with people from the United Kingdom, with things getting moved around regularly. I suppose it's not something that will be settled at this article before it gets settled across the board, but I would like to see us develop a consistent approach towards articles on and associated with the Welsh Assembly as a measure of improving our coverage of modern Wales.--Cúchullain t/ c 14:25, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Ordinals in Infobox
The office of the leader of the National Assembly for Wales is currently known as the First Minister for Wales (Welsh: Prif Weinidog Cymru). This was not always so. It was known previously as First Secretary for Wales (Prif Ysgrifennydd Cymru). Consequently, although it may be technically correct to asign a number to the office, it is misleading (and unnecessary), as the 2nd person to be named First Minister for Wales is actually the 3rd person to be the leader of the National Assembly for Wales. Further, American politics is different to the Welsh model. An American president is elected for a fixed term for that role. The fixed term of the Wales Assemby Government is for the members of the Assembly, not the First Minister who is elected by the AMs. In theory, there could be dozens of First Ministers during the fixed, four year term, (coalition governments come & go all the time). Bering this in mind, adding ordinals to the office serves no useful purpose. I am removing the ordinal from the infobox to reflect this. Daicaregos (talk) 11:05, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

First Minister for Wales - First Minister of Wales
I've avoided the re-directs as the linking article is at First Minister of Wales (which I moved today). GoodDay (talk) 17:18, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Request for Comments
There is an RfC on the question of using "Religion: None" vs. "Religion: None (atheist)" in the infobox on this and other similar pages.

The RfC is at Template talk:Infobox person.

Please help us determine consensus on this issue. --Guy Macon (talk) 05:11, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Rhodri Morgan. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20110524061859/http://wales.gov.uk/about/strategy/makingtheconnections/?lang=en to http://wales.gov.uk/about/strategy/makingtheconnections/?lang=en

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at Sourcecheck).

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 02:36, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

Help - I have added an honorary degree to the list. It looked fine in the preview but now has moved to external links and I have no idea how to get it back. In preview it is still showing up as being in the right place under Honorary Degrees. If anyone can fix it I would be grateful — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.146.57.47 (talk) 06:26, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

If he ethnically welsh?
If he ethnically welsh? Kaiyr (talk) 08:16, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Splitting proposal
I propose that the section about his premiership as the first minister be split into a separate page called Premiership of Rhodri Morgan. This would make sense to me considering most pages on people's premierships have their own pages, and I consider that section large enough to split. BlakeIsHereStudios (talk) 22:38, 18 May 2023 (UTC)


 * I've been working on this article for the last few months. Personally, I think the section as it is right now is too small to constitute a full split yet (the article as a whole is a bit incomplete at the moment I think). However, it is likely to grow significantly once I get around to it and when that happens I think it could possibly be split into a premiership article like with Nicola Sturgeon for example. Perhaps someone could create a draft of the premiership article and we can add stuff from this article into the draft as I go along? Then, once the section is complete and fully enlarged, all of its content could be added to the draft which can then be submitted for creation as an actual article. Once the new premiership article is created, the section in this article can then be reduced into a summary which covers the basics, a bit like how the Public image of Boris Johnson was split from his article. Maybe that could be a good idea? ThatRandomGuy1 (talk) 20:16, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes. I think so. I looked at the Premiership of Nicola Sturgeon and Premiership of Jack McConnell pages as examples and I think it could work. BlakeIsHereStudios (talk) 17:13, 18 June 2023 (UTC)