Talk:Richard Herrnstein

Birdland
i seem to recall PETA or similar protestors outside of Herrnstein's bldg well before the Bell Curve dust-up.

is there any record of this anywhere? 216.50.220.28 (talk) 00:23, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Comment
The matching law has been modified to deal with more cases where it is not a good fit.

130.17.62.242 21:41, 24 April 2007 (UTC)florkle 4-24-2007

Two problems
Two problems:

1. "While the very idea of innate racial differences in intellectual abilities cannot be dismissed out of hand..." At some level this is true, but it's worth noting that a.) the subspecies concept has been largely abandoned and b.) many anthropologists see "race" as a social construct, and find it more appropriate to talk about populations or clines.

2. "..some of the attempted refutations of The Bell Curve were politically motivated..." This sentence doesn't need to be there. One could just as justifiably say that the writing of The Bell Curve was itself politically motivated. This sentence also implies that a refutation cannot be both correct and politically motivated, which isn't true, or that some opponents of The Bell Curve were motivated *entirely* by politics, which can't be proven.

If the some version of the sentence must stay, it would be better to revise it to read, "...some of the attempted refutations of The Bell Curve were *arguably* politically motivated." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.65.134.51 (talk • contribs)


 * At some level this is true, but it's worth noting that a.) the subspecies concept has been largely abandoned and


 * Perhaps in PC circles...


 * Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that race can be determined by blood or hair samples, or even through anthropometric means by the analysis of a skeleton.


 * many anthropologists see "race" as a social construct, and find it more appropriate to talk about populations or clines.


 * Indeed, often times it is more appropriate to use such neutral and ambiguous terms (see "political oversensitivity").


 * This sentence doesn't need to be there. One could just as justifiably say that the writing of The Bell Curve was itself politically motivated.


 * LOL


 * Although Stephen J. Gould's "refutation" of The Bell Curve (i.e. "The Mismeasure of Man") received acclaimed reviews in the popular media, the Scientific community did not embrace Gould's work, faulting it for being inherently political in its premise, and rarely scientifically credible.


 * All this, however, is in striking contrast to the evaluation of his work by fellow-scientists, most of whom regarded him as a lightweight and even a charlatan. Professor Maynard Smith, a leading evolutionary biologist, has written that others in the field “tend to see him as a man whose ideas are so confused as hardly to be worth bothering with.” Speaking for psychologists, Chris Brand has written that Gould’s Mismeasure of Man is “a masterpiece of deception;” and Professor Philippe Rushton has written of Gould’s “career of relentless special pleading.” Even anthropologists Milford Wolpoff and Rachel Caspari, who uncritically accept many of Gould’s distortions, have written that his writings “invariably have a not-so-hidden political agenda.” Professor Steve Jones, an evolutionary biologist who largely agrees with Gould on intelligence and race, has said that “scientifically, he was a failure.”


 * http://www.amren.com /0207issue/0207issue.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.149.112.228 (talk • contribs)


 * Which is an ultra-right wing site and doesn't give a reference for this. What Steve Jones did actually say - and it wasn't about the Bell Curve or race, was ""He gave a salutary kick to the slumbering giant of evolution," says evolutionary biologist Steve Jones, of University College London. "He turned out to be wrong, but he was magnificently wrong."


 * Jones compares him to the explorer Christopher Columbus: "Columbus set out to find India, but found the New World. If that is failure then give me failure any day. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DougWeller (talk • contribs)


 * By contrast, "The Bell Curve" was laregely considered scientifically valid by adademia, yet was ostricized by society at large. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.149.112.228 (talk • contribs)


 * Before taking the bit below too seriously, read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:The_Bell_Curve —Preceding unsigned comment added by DougWeller (talk • contribs)


 * Mainstream Science on Intelligence


 * This public statement, signed by 52 internationally known scholars, was active on the information highway early in 1995 following several rather heated and negative responses to Herrnstein & Murray's The Bell Curve. It was first published in The Wall Street Journal, Tuesday, December 13, 1994. An alphabetical listing of the scholars and their home institutions are given at the end of the statement...


 * The following professors -- all experts in intelligence and allied fields -- have signed this statement:
 * Richard D. Arvey, University of Minnesota
 * Thomas J. Bouchard, Jr., University of Minnesota
 * John B. Carroll, Un. of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
 * Raymond B. Cattell, University of Hawaii
 * David B. Cohen, University of Texas at Austin
 * Rene V. Dawis, University of Minnesota
 * Douglas K. Detterman, Case Western Reserve Un.
 * Marvin Dunnette, University of Minnesota
 * Hans Eysenck, University of London
 * Jack Feldman, Georgia Institute of Technology
 * Edwin A. Fleishman, George Mason University
 * Grover C. Gilmore, Case Western Reserve University
 * Robert A. Gordon, Johns Hopkins University
 * Linda S. Gottfredson, University of Delaware
 * Robert L. Greene, Case Western Reserve University
 * Richard J.Haier, University of Callifornia at Irvine
 * Garrett Hardin, University of California at Berkeley
 * Robert Hogan, University of Tulsa
 * Joseph M. Horn, University of Texas at Austin
 * Lloyd G. Humphreys, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
 * John E. Hunter, Michigan State University
 * Seymour W. Itzkoff, Smith College
 * Douglas N. Jackson, Un. of Western Ontario
 * James J. Jenkins, University of South Florida
 * Arthur R. Jensen, University of California at Berkeley
 * Alan S. Kaufman, University of Alabama
 * Nadeen L. Kaufman, California School of Professional Psychology at San Diego
 * Timothy Z. Keith, Alfred University
 * Nadine Lambert, University of California at Berkeley
 * John C. Loehlin, University of Texas at Austin
 * David Lubinski, Iowa State University
 * David T. Lykken, University of Minnesota
 * Richard Lynn, University of Ulster at Coleraine
 * Paul E. Meehl, University of Minnesota
 * R. Travis Osborne, University of Georgia
 * Robert Perloff, University of Pittsburgh
 * Robert Plomin, Institute of Psychiatry, London
 * Cecil R. Reynolds, Texas A & M University
 * David C. Rowe, University of Arizona
 * J. Philippe Rushton, Un. of Western Ontario
 * Vincent Sarich, University of California at Berkeley
 * Sandra Scarr, University of Virginia
 * Frank L. Schmidt, University of Iowa
 * Lyle F. Schoenfeldt, Texas A & M University
 * James C. Sharf, George Washington University
 * Herman Spitz, former director E.R. Johnstone Training and Research Center, Bordentown, N.J.
 * Julian C. Stanley, Johns Hopkins University
 * Del Thiessen, University of Texas at Austin
 * Lee A. Thompson, Case Western Reserve University
 * Robert M. Thorndike, Western Washington Un.
 * Philip Anthony Vernon, Un. of Western Ontario
 * Lee Willerman, University of Texas at Austin''


 * http://www.lrainc.com/swtaboo/taboos/wsj_main.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.149.112.228 (talk • contribs)

1. this: R. J. Harrnstein (1972). "Nature as Nurture: Behaviorism and the Instinct Doctrine". seems to be missing from listed biography, though it is mentioned as "classic" in the article: Instinct ("History/ In biology" section).

2. previous comment saying "Perhaps in PC circles" seems to not realize, that Race is being abandoned/questioned as a useful term in regard of all biologiocal species (see Richard Dawkins: selfish gene) and not or not just in social/politically correct contex. Template:Unsigned --> — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.131.36.185 (talk) 01:34, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Birth/death
Birth here, death in Murray's obit in National Review, Vol. 46, 10-10-1994, pp 22. Jokestress 08:33, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Birdland
i seem to recall PETA or similar protestors outside of Herrnstein's bldg well before the Bell Curve dust-up.

is there any record of this anywhere? 216.50.220.28 (talk) 00:23, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Solid Research
The Bell Curve was the product of sound thinking and exhaustive research. The fact that many "intellectuals" couldn't understand it or lacked the courage to accept it does nothing to diminish it's contribution. Furthermore, the majority of genuine, able scholars has long since acknowledged the accuracy of its conclusions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Manxtime (talk • contribs) 05:51, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Intelligence Citations Bibliography for Articles Related to IQ Testing
You may find it helpful while reading or editing articles to look at a bibliography of Intelligence Citations, posted for the use of all Wikipedians who have occasion to edit articles on human intelligence and related issues. I happen to have circulating access to a huge academic research library at a university with an active research program in these issues (and to another library that is one of the ten largest public library systems in the United States) and have been researching these issues since 1989. You are welcome to use these citations for your own research. You can help other Wikipedians by suggesting new sources through comments on that page. It will be extremely helpful for articles on human intelligence to edit them according to the Wikipedia standards for reliable sources for medicine-related articles, as it is important to get these issues as well verified as possible. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 21:03, 30 June 2010 (UTC)


 * It is time to update this article and many other articles on related topics, so let's discuss new sources for articles about scholars on IQ testing and related topics. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 02:29, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

1. this: R. J. Harrnstein (1972). "Nature as Nurture: Behaviorism and the Instinct Doctrine". seems to be missing from biography, though it is mentioned as "classic" in the article: Instinct ("History/ In biology" section). 2. previous comment "Perhaps in PC circles" seems to not realize, that Race is being abandoned/questioned as a useful term in regard of all biologiocal species (see Richard Dawkins: selfish gene) and not or not just in social/politically correct contex. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.131.36.185 (talk) 01:29, 13 January 2013 (UTC)