Talk:Rose is a rose is a rose is a rose

Hemingway
The Hemingway article is simply too monolithic for me to have much patience with it in general, but it was a pattern of Hemingway's to get assistance--editorial or financial--from someone and then attack the person: Fitzgerald, Stein, Dos Passos ... Eliot and Joyce never came under his wrath, perhaps because he was too crafty to make that mistake, and Faulkner did without having a brief period of friendship first, but nearly everyone else was used and then attacked. Koyaanis Qatsi 20:15 9 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Use in other writings
I have seen claims that the phrase "A rose is a rose is a rose" was also used by Stein in other writings, but I couldn't find a confirmation. Does anyone know? AxelBoldt 20:20 9 Jun 2003 (UTC)
 * Ok, I found a list. AxelBoldt 20:58 9 Jun 2003 (UTC)

"Arose"?
Does the quote from Operas and Plays really contain the word "arose", or is that a typo? AxelBoldt 21:03 9 Jun 2003 (UTC)

rose is a rose is a rose
it might be useful to keep in mind that - as andrea weiss shows in "paris was a woman" - when stein wrote this sentence first in her notebook there was an additional phrase: "she is my rose" which has been skipped later on. so first the famous "rose is a rose" quotation was ment to be a love-poem to stein's lifemate alice b. toklas
 * See message below. Hyacinth 21:37, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Unnecessary
There is no reason for this article to exist independently. It should be incorporated into the Gertrude Stein article. Support: short quotations and misquotations that are far more famous do not have their own articles. ("The only thing we have to fear is fear itself", "I shall return", "Let them eat cake")

Discrepancy and a question
I disagree with the previous contribution.

I consider there is reason for this article to exist independently. I have not the slightest idea about "Let them eat cake", and consider Stein's roses FAR more famous a quotation than the three examples given; moreover, I knew of the quotation long ago, far before having heard of G Stein, so looking for this quote on Wikipedia is to me more natural than looking for G Stein. And let me add that many Spaniards attribute the quote directly (and erroneously, of course) to Mecano! I guess the previous remark may be true within English-speaking culture, but now the English Wikipedia is universal...

The question: has anybody out there considered this perfectly grammatical and sensible (tautological, in fact) parsing

"a rose is a rose" is "a rose is a rose" ? [Maybe it's due to this that only three repetitions do not sound as good]

>>>> José L Balcázar, Universitat Politècnica de Catalunya (my first contribution to Wikipedia; not sure whether to register...)
 * Please Sign your posts on talk pages. Thanks. Hyacinth 21:37, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * When I was growing up I was told what Sein really said: "A Rose _is_. (A rose is a rose!)" which obviously cant be quite right; I wonder if it's a widespead Urban Myth.   How about a syllogism: "_Rose_ is.  A rose is a rose.  Is a rose? Sparafucil 07:44, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I've also seen...
I read one of her works where it read "A rose is a rose is a rose, but no one knows why a rose is a rose is a rose." Anyone know where this one came from? And if it's worth noting?--Hitsuji Kinno 04:30, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Susan Ashton
I just want to mention, that there is another quoting of that phrase in a song by Susan Ashton,

but I think it is NOT allowed to "quote" here the lyrics of the song for Copyright reasons.

Anyway the title of the song is:

A rose is a Rose

I like it, and that is the way I found my way to this quote.

Maybe the author of the mainpage can use this, and also mention it in the frontpage.

Thnx, Steve

--84.164.95.198 (talk) 19:53, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

"Moses supposes" lyrics incorrect
I saw Singing in the Rain yesterday and I don't recognise the lyrics here at all. Where do they come from? "A rose is for Moses as potent as toeses" I don't remember hearing that at all. I've seen it many times since childhood and know it by heart, and just looked it up and it was exactly as I've memorised it since childhood: http://www.stlyrics.com/songs/g/genekelly8815/mosessupposes299194.html; "Moses supposes his toeses are roses, but Moses supposes erroneously. Moses he knowses his toeses aren't roses, as Moses supposes his toeses to be." There is no "a rose is a rose" or "potent as toeses" - or do you have some other source?

PS. As a child I was annoyed by the lack of "tongue-twistery" that the earlier exercises in this scene have, and of course the nonsense words. I worked out this version instead: "Moses, he poses his nose is of roses, but Moses supposes erroneously. Moses, he knows this, his nose is not roses, as Moses supposes his nose is to be." --Dbjorck (talk) 08:41, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Rose Is Rose
I am guessing the title of the comic strip Rose Is Rose was inspired by this saying, although I have found no direct confirmation of this; should it be mentioned in the "Variations by others" section of the article? B7T (talk) 20:06, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Removed

 * [Re: Margaret Thatcher's "A crime is a crime is a crime"] The rebuttal was "A Diplock Court is a Diplock Court is a Diplock Court", meaning that removing centuries-old civil rights to secure a conviction was an injustice.

Removed: first, it's unsourced; second, the phrase gets no Google hits except copies of the Wikipedia article. - Mike Rosoft (talk) 09:10, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Variations by others: Mr. Ed…
Hmmm, just occurred to me, that somehow Mr. Ed's theme "A Horse is a horse" also referrs to this… --DscheJ-Ouh (talk) 21:13, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

(removed) Variations by others: Umberto Eco, The Name of the Rose
The following claim has been removed from the Variations by others section as factually incorrect (not to mention conjectural):

"'A rose is a rose is a rose' was perhaps the inspiration for Umberto Eco to paraphrase the citation from Bernard of Cluny 'Stat Roma pristina nomine, nomina nuda tenemus' in his 'Stat rosa pristina nomine, nomina nuda tenemus' at the end of his book The Name of the Rose (1980)."

The line in the novel is not a paraphrase. It follows the historically standard text of printed editions of Bernard's De contemptu mundi since at least the first printed edition in 1557. The substitution of "Roma" for "rosa" is a recent "correction" made in a 1991 edition by Ronald Pepin. Pepin's text is reproduced in a number of current online sources, however that version is not historical and according to Eco was unknown to him at the time of writing the novel. The correction, while better fitting the context, has been criticized as mistaken because the word "Roma" is not an acceptable substitution for "rosa" within the meter of the poem ("Roma" begins with a long syllable while "rosa" begins with a short one). In the preface to the poem, Bernard boasts of the complexity and perfection of its form, thus it's implausible that the imperfect "Roma" was intended by him. ScalarField (talk) 20:06, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

Source of Stein's Own Commentary
In the text, the source of Stein's own commentary on the line is: (Four in America)[1]. And then the citation both doesn't seem to make sense and has a broken link. Moreover, the comment seems to come from the preface to that work in a recollection by Thornton Wilder (p. vi). In short, this citation at least needs fixing and perhaps even replacement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.112.10.174 (talk) 21:23, 18 May 2017 (UTC)