Talk:Sam Smith/Archive 2

Semi-protected edit request on 30 June 2020
Possible incorrect pronouns used on last line of "2016–2018: The Thrill of It All" section. 114.23.105.50 (talk) 07:10, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Rummskartoffel (talk) 09:01, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 August 2020
Please change the word “they” to “he” ... Sam smith is one person!!!!!!!! '''Once again, just like I put on the other ignorant person's comment, Sam Smith is not a man. Sam said their pronouns are they/them so please respect that.''' 41.115.59.6 (talk) 14:54, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: per Sam Smith. See also MOS:GENDERID and Singular they. &#8209;&#8209; El Hef  ( Meep? ) 16:11, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

Sam Smith place of birth
The place of birth given seems to be wrong. The National Archive shows the place of birth to be the district of Cambridge, Cambridgeshire.Alt1948s (talk) 16:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Is that information online, and if so, can you provide a link? —C.Fred (talk) 17:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Grammar in final sentence of lead?
The sentence in question currently reads "Smith is genderqueer and uses singular they/them pronouns," with "they/them" set as a link to Singular they. Since it's already been established at this point in the article that Smith is one person, isn't it somewhat redundant to state that they use "singular they/them pronouns," since it would be impossible (or at least implausible) for an individual to use a non-singular pronoun in this context? I think omitting the word "singular" would be an easy fix, but I'm interested in hearing the perspectives of editors who have experience with this page (or with they/them pronouns on Wikipedia as a whole). Thanks in advance!  ezlev signed this. talk  07:45, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I've gone ahead and boldy made the change. GreenComputer (talk) 11:44, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

Ambiguous wording under 'Influences'
"Smith cites Adele and Amy Winehouse as primary influences.[74][75] In an interview with Rolling Stone, they cited Whitney Houston and Mariah Carey as the greatest R&B voices."

Who is "they" referring to? Adele and Amy Winehouse or Sam Smith himself?
 * Sam Smith themself, but you're right that the wording is ambiguous. I'll take a look at that section and see about making it more clear. warmly, ezlev.  talk  20:48, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Updated 20:56, 11 November 2020 (UTC): I've made an edit to clarify the Influences section.


 * Thanks, that'll make it much clearer to his fans. 88.142.151.11 (talk) 15:56, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Again, their fans (see singular they and nonbinary). Glad I could help. warmly, ezlev.  talk  03:30, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh I see what you mean. I'm not too comfortable with this whole "themself" thing, I prefer to just refer to someone as their biological sex if they are not sure what they want to be referred to as. It's a bit silly that we as a society still ascribe makeup and certain clothes to certain genders. I'm strongly against the notion that if a man wears jewellery or makeup, or has interests that are traditionally not associated with his biological sex, he's somehow "less of a man", whatever that means. 88.142.151.11 (talk) 19:28, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
 * With respect, it's not for you or me to decide if we're comfortable or not, it's up to Smith how they want to be referred to. And I'm sure Smith would be the last person to suggest that men who wear jewellery are "less of a man". They simply don't personally consider themself a man. With all this said, in this particular case it was potentially ambiguous. BenjaminChadwick (talk) 14:05, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
 * "With respect, it's not for you or me to decide if we're comfortable or not" Well, yes it is. At the end of the day I chose which pronouns I use to refer to other people. I won't refer to anyone as it/them, it's strongly dehumanizing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.142.151.11 (talk) 22:38, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
 * On Wikipedia, we refer to people using the same pronouns they use for themselves, as per Wikipedia's Manual of Style guideline on gender identity. Doing anything else goes against the Manual of Style, not to mention other guidelines and policies which it may violate as well. Deliberately misgendering people could lead to being blocked from editing. I say all this not to threaten or intimidate you, which I have no desire to do, but to make sure you're aware. Additionally, there's nothing dehumanizing about the singular they, which has been in use since the 14th century. warmly, ezlev.  talk  22:48, 27 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the heads up, I'll bear that in mind any time I edit an article (presumably the same rules don't apply to discussion here). We shall agree to disagree on what one considers dehumanising. 88.142.151.11 (talk) 09:40, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

Transphobic comment at the end of initial bio in relation of being non-binary
The end of the initial bio at the top of the page says "Smith is non-binary, a made-up gender, and uses they/them pronouns for attention." This is transphobic. I don't have a verified account so I can't edit it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Guyforgod96 (talk • contribs) 02:37, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Vandalism reverted and user warned. Funcrunch (talk) 02:42, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

misgendering again.
a user by the name of ConspiracyStuff has yet again edited the pronouns back to “he/him” and removed “their pronouns are they/them”, the same person calling their pronouns ‘made up’. i don’t have a verified account so can someone pls fix this! Gliddies (talk) 12:24, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Done. Newimpartial (talk) 12:28, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

Pronouns
Someone edited the page again and misgendered them! It's in the end of the Personal Section, and I don't have a verified account and cannot change it. Shosty5 (talk) 04:27, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Done. Newimpartial (talk) 04:57, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

Wrong pronouns used
Please change the pronouns to he/him/his again! 'They' is used for multiple people, while Sam Smith is a single person, a man. -- '''No. Sam Smith is genderqueer. They identify as they/them so their pronouns should be used just like that.'''

2A02:B98:4731:AABC:318F:24EC:F7C5:5105 (talk) 22:21, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: per Sam Smith.  JTP (talk • contribs) 00:20, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Please change the "they" pronoun to "it", as that is what Sam Smith prefers to be called. https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/03/elton_john_discovers_that_even_coronavirus_wont_stop_the_pronoun_wars.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.143.179.41 (talk) 17:36, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Not done: Misreading of the source provided. Newimpartial (talk) 18:15, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Award nomination
--- Another Believer ( Talk ) 00:43, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
 * 32nd GLAAD Media Awards

Wikipedia:WikiProject Songs has an RFC
Wikipedia:WikiProject Songs has an RFC for the use of radio station/networks' playlists being cited in articles. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Heartfox (talk) 00:10, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

Quotations
How do we feel about this edit which seeks to remove three quotations as excessive?

I have reverted this as the quotes do not seem excessive to me but this has been disputed. In my view, the first quote (about the break up) is the most borderline one. That gives some worthwhile insight into Smith's relationship but if other people were to argue that it is non-essential then I could see that argument. The other two quotes are much more easily defensible. These contextualise Smith's genderqueer identity and choice of pronouns in a significant way. It is important to understand that non-binary is not a single third gender but a collective term for all genders which are not the two binary ones. This encompasses a huge range of possibilities. The quotes give readers a flavour of what gender specifically means to Smith which the word "genderqueer" alone can not provide. Similarly the pronouns quote is worthwhile because Smith has said what the pronouns mean to them personally. Of course, nobody is obligated to explain their pronouns to the world, but Smith has chosen to do so and I think this is worth noting. None of the quotes are long rambling discursions and I think they are worth retaining. So, let's see what everybody else thinks. DanielRigal (talk) 18:29, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

Gynecomastia
Gynecomastia is the abnormal presence of female breasts in males. According to the | source cited, Sam Smith is neither male nor female, but is their "own special creation." So the breasts that were removed at age 12 could not have been the result of gynecomastia, they were just normal breasts. The source also doesn't use the word gynecomastia. Baller McGee (talk) 18:05, 6 February 2023 (UTC)


 * This is original synthesis on your part. You might be right that this is not adequately referenced but it is perfectly plausible that Smith, who was assigned male at birth and assumed to be a boy as a child, could have been diagnosed with gynecomastia. How on earth would a doctor have known that Smith was non-binary years before Smith was able to come out? I am not against removing the term, if nobody can find a better reference for it, but only due to the referencing issue and certainly not for the other reason you attempt to argue. DanielRigal (talk) 19:05, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
 * This is disingenuous arguing. It's called gynecomastia and not breast formation because it's unusual in biological males and happens for different reasons than it does for biological females. This is not a gender issue. Prinsgezinde (talk) 22:20, 7 February 2023 (UTC)


 * I don't think we can assume they are "biologically male," as you put it, without a source. They say that they are not male and unless there is some other source we have to take their word for it. Baller McGee (talk) 14:56, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

Gender pronoun fix required
The last paragraph of the section headed "Personal life" includes "He identies as a feminist. He has struggled with body image issues since their preteen years".

Suggest fixing this inconsistency (I would have done it myself but the page is protected now). KumoAcademic (talk) 12:09, 14 February 2023 (UTC)


 * ✅ That was a recently introduced bit of vandalism. I have reverted it and warned the person who did it. Thanks for drawing it to our attention. DanielRigal (talk) 12:33, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Disclaimer: Pronouns
Sam Smith uses they/them pronouns because they are genderqueer. So don’t get confused and change them to he/him. PedigreeWWEFigz87V2 (talk) 21:34, 25 June 2021 (UTC)


 * I would think "They grew up" should be changed to "Samuel grew up", since this comes right after a mention of Samuel's parents, and might sound like it's referring to them. 79.60.232.33 (talk) 07:07, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Absolutely. Also I’m not an english speaker so I don’t understand everytime it says them. I thought the page was talking about his parents life. 186.141.198.170 (talk) 12:50, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * This was changed to "Smith grew up" at some point in the recent past. This resolves any possible ambiguity. DanielRigal (talk) 00:31, 15 March 2023 (UTC)