Talk:Samuel Lipschutz

Requested move

 * The following discussion is archived. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Request move to S. Lipschütz. Newly added referenced material to the article makes it clear that "Samuel Lipschütz" is very likely not his actual name, and "S. Lipschütz" (or "S. Lipschutz") is probably the most common and the most accurate form we can use. Redirects should be created from Simon Lipschütz and possibly Solomon Lipschütz. 24.177.121.141 (talk) 09:00, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I added the material that 24.177.121.141 refers to, and I agree. There is no basis for preferring "Samuel" Lipschütz, as the article has it, over "Simon" or "Solomon". Since there is substantial support for "Simon" (roughly equal to that for "Samuel"), and some for "Solomon", I don't think there is even a basis for saying that "Samuel" is more likely than not his name.  "S. Lipschütz" is how The Chess-Player's Manual, to which he contributed the appendix, expressed his name, and that is the only NPOV way to do so. Krakatoa (talk) 09:26, 21 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd always give a fair amount of creedence to Gaige's Chess Personalia in these situations - and as it reflects Krakatoa's take on it, I would personally support the proposed move. Brittle heaven (talk) 11:28, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm honored. :-) Edward Winter also says there's no basis for preferring "Samuel" over the alternatives. That plus Gaige does it for me. Krakatoa (talk) 13:19, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Have any of these sources checked the 1890 Census? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 18:11, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I have seen no mention of it. Gaige's Chess Personalia book (1987) cites 19 sources, but the census isn't one of them. Krakatoa (talk) 07:34, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The user Septentrionalis makes a good point. Here in the UK, such a question as Lipschutz' first name would be quite trivial for amateur genealogists to solve with older census information becoming freely available in recent years. Presumably there is similar info available in the US? Do we have any geneaogists on the Chess WP? It's not very often we have the opportunity to trump Gaige and Winter, or would this fall foul of WP:OR? Brittle heaven (talk) 10:37, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It probably would, although one could circumvent the problem by finding the source and sending it to Winter (ewinter@sunrise.ch). He would undoubtedly publish it in Chess Notes, crediting the person who found it. The Wikipedia article could then cite the Chess Note. That is what I did when I found that George H.D. Gossip had published the book The Jew of Chamant, which all previous chess writers had failed to notice. See George_Gossip. Similarly, when I composed a study that culminated in a stalemate, I sent it to Pal Benko, he published it in his Chess Life column "Benko's Bafflers", and I then cited it in the stalemate article. Krakatoa (talk) 11:03, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Whatever's agreed on, he probably needs a more complete set of redirects - from Samuel/Simon/Solomon/S. plus Lipshu/ue/ütz, 11 in all apart from the finally agreed article title! PamD (talk) 12:14, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

External links modified
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Salomon
First name controversy resolved. The first name was Salomon because it's on the most official documents including those provided by Winter. "Samuel" was probably Salomon's attempt to Americanize his name, but is unofficial. People probably had a hard time pronouncing Salomon, so I can see him advising to call him Samuel as close enough. I wouldn't use Samuel for a Wikipedia page any more than we refer to Hemingway as Ernie. A Brooklyn Chess magazine on page 36 clearly lists the name as Salomon. They would know. Here's a link to said magazine: https://archive.org/details/brooklynchessch00mugoog/page/n34/mode/2up?q=Salomon
 * It actually doesn't matter what his legal name was. We are to use what his commonly used name was. Kingturtle = (talk) 02:54, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Samuel Lipschutz
I have moved this article from S. Lipschutz to Samuel Lipschutz. Samuel is the name that he used and the name he was known by. For example, when searching newspapers.com you will find information on him when searching for Samuel Lipschutz, not S. Lipschutz.

In Wikipedia we should use the name for which they are most commonly known. Kingturtle = (talk) 16:11, 27 December 2023 (UTC)