Talk:Savoy Truffle

I do not think the interpretation given is correct.
I really don't think the interpretation of this song is correct. Listen to the lyrics -- it seems (seriously) to be about cunnilingus to me. I have no sources to cite, though, so I will refrain from changing the article until and unless I find some. Might anyone else have evidence on this subject? RobertAustin (talk) 17:31, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Beatles songs tend to be over-interpreted. John Lennon made of a point of how that irritated him in another White-Album tune, "Glass Onion". (BTW, I myself misinterpreted "The Continuing Story of Bungalow Bill" as an anti-war song. And we all know the fracas over "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds". Poor John.) (PS: Poetry always seems to be in the eye of the beholder when one lacks all the info. Like that line in Lewis Carrol's Alice stories: "It means what I want it to mean.") RobertGustafson (talk) 07:43, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

I am not sure that the originator of the article about The Beatles song 'Savoy Truffle' is correct just in the information included in the piece leaves out whether or not John Lennon contributed as one of the singer / songwriters and/or if he was not present this 'reader' would like to know, why? No information on John Lennon appears in this piece and the lack of any and all information regarding whether or not he was involved in the writing, playing of, and production of this particular song, "Savoy Truffle" leads one to question the whole of all information that one could call speculative rather than factual. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.80.120.53 (talk) 06:52, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Untitled
Listen, I don't know if I am putting this right, but Savoy Truffle is not about Eric Clapton's chocolate addiction. It is about his cocaine addiction. George used chocolate as a cover. -wtk
 * And your source is... ? --kingboyk 10:36, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * See comment on previous talk section. RobertGustafson (talk) 07:48, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

The song is very clearly about drug addiction. My source is the lyrics. The Beatles had an image to maintain. They weren't going to admit that "Savoy Truffle" was about drugs for the same reason they weren't going to admit "Lucy In the Sky With Diamonds" was about drugs. I know this is a touchy issue, when we have artist statements about meaning, which for the vast majority of the history of music and art we simply don't have. But that doesn't mean we abandon common sense criticism and interpretation of the art for which we DO have such statements. If the song is very clearly about drugs, based on simply reading the lyrics, that view should be represented in a section on the meaning of the song. It would be like having an article on "Trampled Under Foot" that says the song is about a car, because Robert Plant once said that in an interview. Artists can't restrict interpretation of their art just by making a statement about it. -- Alice
 * The content of Wikipedia is determined by reliable sources, not just one person's personal opinions. Sundayclose (talk) 01:16, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:The White Album.jpg
Image:The White Album.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 03:52, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Who played rythm guitar?
There's also a rythm guitar track on this song; its performer (be it Harrison or someone else) should be credited in the "Personnel" section. RobertGustafson (talk) 07:39, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Who is Everett?
Twice this article refers to somebody named Everett describing something about the song. Who is Everett? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.54.250.11 (talk) 00:39, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

"Conversely"
"Conversely, music journalist Robert Fontenot interprets the lines...." His interpretation appears to be the same as Roessner's, not converse to it. Fishlandia (talk) 12:09, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I disagree. Even though the point's been mentioned that "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da" "was not a song that McCartney's bandmates liked or enjoyed recording", Roessner's interpretation is that Harrison was mocking fans who searched the Beatles' lyrics for hidden meaning, as Lennon had more obviously been doing. But Fontenot reads it as "an expression of distaste for McCartney's composition" – so that's quite different (converse) to the previous reading, no? Somewhere here I've got a source who comes straight out and says it – the line was an obvious dig at McCartney – but unfortunately I've not been able to find it. JG66 (talk) 12:42, 6 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Regarding what I called the English style, the quotation mark before the period or comma: almost all of the article is that way, so this one stands out and looks wrong. You or someone will need to go back and conform the rest of the article then I guess.
 * OK, I see now about Glass Onion; thanks.
 * "Conversely" doesn't mean "differently," it means in reverse of what went previously, so maybe there's another word to use that would convey "different." But, OK. Fishlandia (talk) 15:13, 6 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Okay, I see what you mean about "conversely". I might change to "alternatively", or better still just skip the editorialisation altogether.
 * I've got to disagree about the placement of the quotation mark, though. A full sentence is being quoted and a full stop appears in the original. I'd be surprised if there's any inconsistency on this in the article (but I'd welcome hearing about it if there is, of course). Cheers,JG66 (talk) 15:25, 6 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Okey-dokes. Quotation marks, though - not everything in quotes in the article is quoting part of a sentence. E.g. "...reciprocating on Cream's "Badge", it is one of...." In fact hardly anything is. Fishlandia (talk) 15:38, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

repeated removal of the statement that horn parts appear in the Love remix of "Drive My Car"
Instead of removing this statement from the article, would you please discuss the issue here (per BRD). I've twice reverted your edits, for which you supplied the puzzling rationales "Ggggg" and "Gggfff"; it's only when I followed your contributions to the Love article that it became clear: "Horns section where from good morning good morning". All your Wikipedia edits seem to be related to specifics of the Love remixes, and you've not supplied a single source when making those changes.

In this article, I've supported the statement that "the track's horn parts were mixed into 'Drive My Car'" with the Zeth Lundy/PopMatters review as a source. As part of the elaborate promotion for the Love album (so I understand), reviewers were supplied with technical information that included some detail on which snippets of Beatles songs ended up in which 2006 mashup. Having said that, I don't want to include information here (or anywhere) that's blatantly false, so I had a couple of listens through headphones. As mentioned on 17 Jan, my ears tell me: "horns @ the end are from G'Morning but over 1st chorus it's Truffle (or perhaps a mix of Truff & G'Morning)". But that's just what I hear – which isn't enough for me to then add a mention in this song article, in "Good Morning, Good Morning" and in Love that portions of the horn parts from both "Savoy Truffle" and "GM, GM" were used. That would be original research.

Lundy says the horns are from "Savoy Truffle". Who exactly says they're from "Good Morning, Good Morning" instead? JG66 (talk) 03:30, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Personnel credits, in light of contradictory information from a variety of sources
I've had a good look at this issue, and figured it was worth compiling all I've found, to explain how I've then handled instrumental credits for the song, under Recording and particularly Personnel.

Mark Lewisohn clearly states in The Complete Beatles Recording Sessions that "The eight-track tape does not reveal any role for John Lennon on 'Savoy Truffle' at any stage of its recording." Lewisohn also says that Starr had left for a family holiday in Sardinia and therefore the song's percussion overdubs were done without him. Despite the fact that most authors usually treat Lewisohn's books as prime source material, the likes of Walter Everett and Bruce Spizer appear to ignore these points about Lennon and Starr's nonattendance, and credit each of them with contributions to "Savoy Truffle" when it's clearly impossible. This is what each of the sources give for the song's credits (omitting the horn section):


 * Ian MacDonald, Revolution in the Head: Harrison double-tracked vocal, lead guitar; McCartney bass; Starr drums, tambourine; Chris Thomas organ, electric piano
 * Walter Everett, The Beatles as Musicians: Harrison lead vocal (x2), electric piano, lead guitars (Fender Telecaster) Lennon rhythm guitar (Epiphone Casino) McCartney bass Starr drums; other instrumentation: two organ parts, tambourine
 * Bruce Spizer, The Beatles on Apple Records: Harrison lead vocal, electric piano, lead guitars (Fender Telecaster) Lennon electric guitar (Epiphone Casino) McCartney bass Starr drums; other instrumentation: organ, tambourine and bongos – all recorded in Starr's absence
 * Kenneth Womack, The Beatles Encyclopedia: Harrison vocal, Fender Telecaster, Hammond organ McCartney Rickenbacker 4001S Starr drums, tambourine Chris Thomas Fender Rhodes Electric Piano
 * John Winn, That Magic Feeling: The Beatles' Recorded Legacy, Volume Two, 1966–1970: states that Lennon was absent from sessions held over 3–7 October, then lists instrumentation for basic track on 3 October as rhythm guitar, bass and drums; with 5 and 14 October overdubs: Harrison lead vocal (with ADT), lead guitars; McCartney harmony vocal, bass; someone ("not Starr") tambourine, bongos; Chris Thomas electric piano, organ
 * Jean-Michael Guesdon & Philippe Margotin, All the Songs: The Story Behind Every Beatles Release: Harrison vocal, lead guitar (x2); McCartney bass, backing vocal?; Starr drums, tambourine, bongos ('inaudible'); Chris Thomas organ?, electric piano? – the authors' inclusion of question marks reflects their uncertainty over particular credits; they also add mention of a brief fill on acoustic guitar at 0:36 per Lewisohn (from the latter's Chronicles, I assume)
 * Kit O'Toole, song article for Something New! website: mentions Lennon's absence on 3 October and lists basic-track instrumentation as lead guitar, bass and drums; then, for 5 October overdubs, Harrison lead vocal, McCartney harmony vocal; followed on 14 October, without Starr's participation, by second electric guitar, organ, bongos and tambourine; O'Toole adds: "One debate still rages: did coproducer Chris Thomas play the organ ... or did Harrison? Some reports have Harrison originally playing the electric piano, which was eventually replaced by Thomas's organ and piano parts."

It's a bit of a mess, in other words. (Quick aside: I'm surprised by the mentions of Harrison on only Fender Tele. I'd say that, apart from the mid-song solo, all the parts are played on his treasured Les Paul [a gift from Clapton]. He and a lot of sources say that this was his main guitar on the White Album sessions, at least from August '68 onwards; before then, it was his red Gibson SG. Anyway.)

I normally trust Everett's ears, in that he bothers to actually listen to a song, and identifies each instrument as it drops in. So, he hears (correctly, imo) that there are two lead guitar parts on top of the rhythm guitar, and that there are two organ parts combining to create the overall, swampy effect. But, of course, when he assigns credit for the individual contributions, Everett seems ignorant of who was and who wasn't in the studio at the time. O'Toole and Guesdon & Margotin reflect the confusion about the keyboard parts. What I've tried to do in the most recent edits is to keep things simple under Recording: list the specific 14 October overdubs and say that Starr was absent; mention that there are two organ parts, and that Thomas and Harrison have each been credited as an organ player on the track, depending on the source. That outlines the areas of uncertainty among the sources, without the reader becoming bogged down in specifics. Then, under Personnel, I've gone with Winn and Womack as main sources, with a note to explain how they differ over the percussion and organ credits. In the list, Harrison and Thomas are each credited for organ, in line with Everett's identification of two parts on the instrument. JG66 (talk) 06:11, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Background and inspiration
The last two paragraphs of this section are problematic. They open with the phrase "I believe that...," but they're not presented as a quote - in fact, there is no citation at all. In the end, it comes across as simply the personal opinion of the Wikipedian who wrote them - which is definitely not encyclopedic. PurpleChez (talk) 20:51, 13 June 2018 (UTC)


 * You're quite right. I've removed the two paragraphs, which should never have been added in the first place.

Uncredited tambourine
It previously said on the page that Ringo Starr played the tambourine on this song. But the information was recently changed to "Uncredited". I'm not sure why that is, but what I do know is that now there's no proof that a member of the Beatles played the tambourine. And therefore the credit should be moved to the "Additional musicians" section, unless some information is added that confirms that a member of the Beatles played it. ― C.Syde  ( talk  |  contribs ) 03:47, 25 February 2019 (UTC)


 * No longer credited to Starr is in keeping with description in the main text: "With Starr away in Sardinia, the overdubs consisted of another lead guitar part by Harrison, and organ, tambourine and bongos, although the latter contribution does not appear in the final mix." Ian MacDonald was clearly guessing and unaware that Starr was not present at the 14 October session.
 * Not listed under Additional musicians because Lewisohn always mentions when outside contributors were present (because EMI kept written records of their presence in order to pay them) yet he mentions no musician other than the Beatles at the 14 October session. In other words, there's "no proof" that an additional musician was at the session and played the tambourine. JG66 (talk) 04:21, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Ah, right. ― C.Syde  ( talk  |  contribs ) 02:06, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

Author Jeffrey Roessner considers it significant that Harrison mispronounces the title;
Apparently, Roessner considers "O-bla-di-bla-da" a mispronunciation of the title, when in fact, it's the same pronunciation McCarney uses for the phrase at the end of the song. It's not a mispronunciation of the title; it's the correct pronunciation of a verbatim quote from the lyrics. Roessner's interpretation collapses under the weight of his own error, and should probably be deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1000:B03C:9EE:8CCE:DF27:4463:C302 (talk) 17:41, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 * The song title is "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da" and in "Savoy Truffle" Harrison sings "We all know Ob-La-Di-Bla-Da", so Roessner's right. Just because McCartney (and Lennon) sing the same phrase right at the end of "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da", after singing the true title many times in that song, doesn't negate Roessner's point at all – Harrison's still mispronouncing the title. JG66 (talk) 05:21, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I agree with the original comment. That phrasing is in the song as written, and there's no reason (or at least, no reason is given) to assume that Harrison is referring to the title and not to that lyric. He's not "mispronouncing" it if that's not what he's referencing to begin with.
 * Looking at the article on that song, it would seem that if anyone mispronounced anything, it was McCartney who did so in the original lyric, probably just because it scanned better. In any case, that article makes no mention of it. Richard K. Carson (talk) 00:16, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

music critic MacDonald or MacCormick?
The article references music critic "Ian MacDonald", but following the link provided leads you to a snippet on music critic Ian MacCormick. Typo?? 2605:8D80:525:F21F:85C2:C595:569E:7E60 (talk) 11:06, 5 April 2022 (UTC)


 * He published under MacDonald (refer to Ian MacDonald).  Tkbrett  (✉) 13:04, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

tambourine
I would like to note that on the Beatles Bible it says that Paul McCartney played tambourine but I'm not sure if Wikipedia credits the Beatles Bible as an official source. Minemaster1337 (talk) 23:53, 23 November 2022 (UTC)


 * As a fan site, Beatles Bible is not considered a reliable source. I'm not sure where Joe Goodden got that information anyway – the confusion is detailed on in the personnel section of this article in a note.  Tkbrett  (✉) 00:01, 24 November 2022 (UTC)