Talk:Seville/Archive 1

Progroms against Jewish during Middle Age
I agree that any kind of violence and repression against any culture is horrible. However, I disagree that among the rich and long history of my city, the few progroms events happened should be remarked. The history chapter of the Wikipedia Seville article, as presented until last week, was a brief abstract of the almost 3000y of Seville existence. The article avoids events much more relevant in our history than progroms, just in order to be an informative abstract! I think that recording such events gives to the reader a wrong idea of Seville's history, because of progroms are horrible, but they are not relevant within an abstract. User:Pjimmej 20 June 2011

Neighborhoods
I've started a project to create and flesh out articles on neighborhoods of Seville, of which only Triana existed. So I've created entries on La Macarena and Nervion, but I need help with the rest. I've created a navigation box with a list of Seville's neighborhoods, but the vast majority of them are dead links, since the pages still do not exist. If those interested could help me with this project, that would be great. Wikipedia as of yet does not have a comprehensive entry for Seville in the same way that it does for other major European cities, but we can change that. Many of the neighborhoods already have pages in Spanish, which can help in the process.


 * Great Idea. As a former resident of Nervion, I'll jump in and help where I can. Hiberniantears 19:56, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

trams
I'm from Seville and the last time we saw a tram there was in the sixties. There are no trams in Seville.


 * That's embarassing. What about a light rail? I think I put it because I saw it at List of light-rail transit systems. If you are sure, correct the page, and add, add information :) -- Error


 * I noticed the trams are being built now (saw them with my own eyes). I may add this back into the article. Hiberniantears 19:50, 21 March 2007 (UTC)


 * They are similar to the new Brussels trams, but at the moment there is just going to be a single line, the Metrocentro. The expected "release date" is April-May -- Asterion talk 20:47, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Moorish Legacy
I'm not sure the following claim is accurate: "The architecture of the older parts of the city still reflects 800 years of Moorish control of the city."

Certainly the architecture of the city does reflect Muslim influence, but Muslim control of the city was not 800 years but closer to 550. Muslim control started in 711 at the earliest, and ended sometime around 1248 in Seville, if I recall correctly.

Craig Schamp 14:29, Aug 3, 2004 (UTC)


 * I changed it to read "reflects the centuries of Moorish control". The history section could use some expansion with more precise dates. -- Infrogmation 15:47, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC) Moorish control ended almost 800 years ago...Roman control of Seville (Hispalis) also lasted more than 400 years...--83.63.180.134 (talk) 22:50, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Seville in fiction
Some of the recent additions to this are just films that happen to have used Seville for some location shooting. I don't think they are worth listing in this article (although an article on that subject would be welcome). I'm inclined to remove them from the article, but thought I'd give others a chance to remark first. -- Jmabel|Talk 19:39, Oct 11, 2004 (UTC)
 * Even more so, I suspect, the mention of Dan Brown's Digital Fortress. While my knowledge of writers is not by any means universal, I suspect this is not important enough to merit the mention. -- Jmabel | Talk 18:10, Jun 25, 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree. Does it add to our sense of what Seville is, looks like or means? Does mention of the book enrich the article Seville?--Wetman 20:48, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I removed this: what's the connection to Seville?:"Seville appears in John Woo's Mission: Impossible II, but it's tremendously altered. The ambience in the film is South American, and the strange celebration seen in the street is nowhere to be seen in Seville--it's purely an invention for the movie."
 * I actually watched that movie in Seville. I think the laughing could be heard three screens to each side. I find amusing how can someone spend over $5 million in a script with such bad research. I would not consider it South American either. Basically, it is the scriptwriter's idea of "Spain": a bit of Semana Santa, mix and matched with plenty of other misconceptions on the Valencia Fallas, a Cordoba Patio and some sort of Alhambra-like building, surrounded by pot-holed roads not seen since the sixties. A joke nearly as bad Dan Brown's description of Seville as a third world country scenario. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad... Asterion 03:13, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

A link

 * , linked from the article as "History and Culture of Seville" strikes me as terribly written and not notably informative. And it's commercial. I'd be happy to see it removed, but figured I wouldn't do so unilaterally. - Jmabel | Talk 02:08, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

2005 statistics?
Perhaps someone should vet the anonymously added statistics for 2005. --Wetman 06:13, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I,ve checked and the numbers are correct (www.ine.es) though strictly speaking they are census office estimates (2005 is not a census year). I'll change the wording. If you were querying them because they look too high remember that southern Spain is attracting unprecedented numbers of immigrants at the moment. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jameswilson (talk • contribs) 03:55, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Numismaticnotice
The bot WatchlistBot keeps adding Numismaticnotice to this page. I think it's because the article is in the Ancient mints category. So, which course of action do we prefer:


 * 1) Do nothing.  Is being tagged into WikiProject  20:10, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Sevilla
This article needs more work, it doesn't look good. -- ICE77 84.222.102.136 21:35, 13 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, and since this anonymous post, the intrusive infobox has shoved all illustrations into a "gallery" huddled at the bottom. Can someone re-establish some layout for this visually stunted article? Or maybe it doesn't matter. --Wetman (talk) 06:13, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Cathedral construcion
You should add that the catholic architects DID NOT built the cathedrals on the former site of the city's mosques what they did was take advantage of the superior muslim architecture and change some stuff to make it catholic,something not bright and unethical.190.0.137.189 19:30, 30 September 2006 (UTC)Gonzalo Puig
 * With all due respect, what you are saying may be true for Cordoba Cathedral, the old Mezquita, but not really for Seville's, as the only real remmant is the Patio de los Naranjos, the former Mosque inner ablution yard. The rest of the Cathedral was completely buil from scratch, with the obvious exception of the Giralda, of course. In any case, that sort of language use would go against Neutral Point of View policy. Regards, Asterion talk 19:42, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

I posted a note some time back on the page for the Cathedral, but does anyone have more extensive information that we could add to either this, or the article on the cathedral regarding the dome collapse? Hiberniantears 19:24, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Seville 1992
What important sports event was held in Seville in 1992?== --86.125.115.211 21:13, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Port
"Seville has the only river port of the Iberian peninsula"

I don' understand this... what is a river port and how does Seville differ from ports in Lisbon and Porto in Portugal? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.255.7.109 (talk) 23:24, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

seems fixed now in main article - I wrote the above comment originally. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.21.148.94 (talk) 16:14, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

History
How about a History section.. it doesn't exist!!


 * Absolutely. We should start by converting the Development of the City section. Hiberniantears 19:17, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

GIRALDA IN KANSAS CITY PICTURE?!
I don't think this picture has to be here. This is not an article about an American city of Kensas, but about the real city named Sevilla, in Spain. It would be as ridiculus to put a picture of the Las Vegas's "Eiffel tower" in a article about Paris instead of the real one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.224.59.166 (talk) 22:43, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Kansas City and Seville are sister cities and this is where the replica of the Giralda comes from. It is not some shameless promotion of the Eiffel Tower which was part of a hotel marketing idea. Seville has a major road (Avennida Kansas City) for this same reason, as well as a statue of a native american on a horse along the same avenue. So while it may not be the most important point of Seville history, it is more relevant than the Las Vegas Eiffel Tower.88.7.148.165 (talk) 00:17, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Precisely. It isn't random trivia, but something that even a day tripper to either Sevilla or Kansas City would notice. Having been to both cities, and lived in Sevilla, it stands out. Hiberniantears (talk) 01:27, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Created new main article on "History of Seville"
I have created the article History of Seville which incorporates information from the equivalent article on the Spanish Wikipedia. Carlstak (talk) 10:11, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

British or American English?
A lot of this article switches between the two. It is possibly due to machine translation which has left a lot of errors and 'y's in the article. Should this article be in British English because Seville is in Europe, or American because a lot of the article is already like that? Indiasummer95 (talk) 16:41, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * a lot of mainland Europe uses American English. LibStar (talk) 05:50, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I've had a good look and there are many more British English spellings, as compared to any other, i.e. neighbourhood x7; neighborhood x0, colour x4; color x1, etc.
 * I've gone back in the history to this version in December 2005, where colour is spelled in British English varient.
 * Reading through WP:RETAIN, I note that: "In general, disputes over which English variety to use in an article are strongly discouraged. Such debates waste time and engender controversy, mostly without accomplishing anything positive."
 * From this I conclude that we should continue to use British English in this article. -- Marek  . 69  talk 20:28, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

Main sights
don't want to lose content so am proposing moving into its own article. LibStar (talk) 05:50, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

Timeline of Seville
What is missing from the recently created city timeline article? Please add relevant content. Contributions welcome. Thank you. -- M2545 (talk) 11:09, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 05:50, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

50ºc on Seville??
50ºc on Seville are completely unreliable and unofficial, I guess. Just like the 50,5ºc in Riodades (Portugal) that were registered on the same day. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Geog Marin (talk • contribs) 11:24, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Music and Festivals
Added subheadings under Festivals with expanded information, as well as an additional heading under Music for Flamenco. Cattbrown86 (talk) 19:01, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

Guadalquivir and canal de Alfonso XIII
First, I'd like to apologize for my english, my mother language being french...

I wanted to make you notice that, in Seville, the Guadalquivir river doesn't cross the city : in 1948, it was redirected to the west and now bypasses the city. The "river" crossing the city is a canal, a basin, obstructed on the north and going into the port south from the city. The canal is called Canal de Alfonso XIII. In french, it is also known as the Guadalquivir Basin.

All the story can be read (in french) in this article : Canal Alphonse-XIII. I started changing the categories in Commons but I need someone knowing english better than I do to correct it in the article ? Who could do it ? Thank you ! Gzzz (talk) 20:37, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

Economic Developments
I will begin working on further developing the economy section with more industries and current statistics. --Koopnasty (talk) 23:46, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

Seville is not the warmest area in continental europe
Someone keeps on adding an unsourced claim that Seville is the warmest annually in continental Europe. Please refrain from adding this again unless you can substantiate it with a credible source that specifically states this.Weatherextremes (talk) 20:09, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

So, the same user is now using a tourist clickbait source to claim Seville is the warmest in continental Europe and the same user is not even engaging in the talk page. Weatherextremes (talk) 19:23, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

Why do you say the same user when it wasn't even me who added that claim in the past? It seems you have had a serious problem with this statement/phrase until the point you've done a WP:SPS in a blog where you edit and you've inserted the same claim in a couple of Wikipedia articles using meteoclub.gr as the only source that contradicts this fact, when 2 different Wikipedia Administrators have already said meteoclub.gr is not a reliable source but WP:SPS and WP:SYN and I can even search for that.

Now you've just made an edit war to try to impose your own WP:POV before even trying to reach an argument here, who said it's "a tourist clickbait source" except for you? Why do you think any real website has even bothered to seek for the warmest city in continental Europe or something? This is obviously something that's not really documented, and even if your claims were real, although meteoclub.gr is not a reliable site, "Nea Filadelfia" is not a city but a district, Sevilla is a city, what is exactly hard to understand?

If you have a personal problem with the source then wait as per WP:CYCLE but don't just stick to revert and to impose your own point of view as you've done before in other articles. Nevermind I have seen you have already broken the WP:3RR and initiated a strong edit war as you literally don't care about WP:GUIDELINES when you have been warned this same summer over edit wars you've made in several articles. I'm gonna fill a report against your actions. --TechnicianGB (talk) 19:37, 21 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Oh I was under the impression it was you, if not I am sorry but you seem to be the one insisting to provide this tourist clickbait low quality source on that claim. Now who says that I have edited any blog? You are accusing me or writing up sources just to use them on wikipedia? Is that what you are doing?

Also you have broken the WP:3RR and what is sad about it you never bother to engage in the section which I created more than a year ago Weatherextremes (talk) 19:44, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

and when I have warned you in the edit diffs why didn't you come here instead of doing 4 reverts in less than 30 minutes? The 3 RR is broken at the 4th revert, not at the 3rd, and I have reverted 3 of your edits (while encouraging you in the edit diffs to talk as per WP:CYCLE) while you have reverted 4 of my edits, without any solid reason. I am actually filling the report, if you want to talk, I'd recommend you to revert your last edit in the main page of Seville returning to the stable version of the page and we can talk here. Or do you prefer an administrator to take action over this edit war you have created because you simply don't agree with a source that no one else deleted except for yourself? --TechnicianGB (talk) 19:53, 21 December 2021 (UTC)


 * So let me understand. You have reverted to a personal attack, a clear ad hominem behavior by accusing me that I edit blogs (which btw you do not even bothered to comment) and on top of that you prefer to keep the obviously clickbaity tourist source? There was no stable version actually. That's a low quality source added by you and I believe it should not be there.I hope any admin will understand this. At least you started to engage in the talk page. Its a start Weatherextremes (talk) 20:01, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

Sorry but I have already told you in this revert what you shold do as per WP:CYCLE and you literally didn't even care until you have broken the 3RR and you came here to put accusations. The "accusation" I have actually also said (which is unrelated to Seville) is because you just delete this phrase because according to yourself, "the Athens Riviera has the warmest climate in Continental Europe" which is an article created by you, where you are using your own WP:SPS from meteoclub.gr (2 different Wiki administrators have already told you this in the past, one of them here) and that's your only counterargument to delete a based source? You literally use self published sources on other Wiki Articles, how can you dictaminate if a source is unreliable or not?

If you believe that source shouldn't be here, this is why the talk page exists for, not to revert 4 edits in less than 30 minutes and then playing the "it's not my fault" card. You have also deleted the disruptive tag I've inserted in your talk page clearly showing how interested you are in resolving this dispute. And since I see you don't even want to WP:CYCLE I will fill the report in the Edit Warring noticeboard, because you really don't care about WP:GUIDELINES nor about warnings. --TechnicianGB (talk) 20:14, 21 December 2021 (UTC)


 * We have been through this before. I am at a liberty of blanking my personal talk page as far as I am aware the past 11 years that I am editing wikipedia. So please do not use non arguments. Secondly,you insist that I use self published sources? I have been very transparent and I had repeatedly stressed publicly in the forum here that I do not edit meteoclub. You are aware of this from our discussion back in the summer, yet you insist of twisting the facts. That's is pretty sad.


 * It is exactly because I care (!) that I asked you to remove the clickbaity source which is a non reliable source and engage here but instead you choose to report me Weatherextremes (talk) 20:22, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Both of you have broken WP:3RR on this today. Stop.
 * As far as the source goes, https://web.archive.org/web/20210124222106/http://travelfullstop.com/sevilla-spain-the-hottest-city-in-europe/ is a user-generated blog (actually an archived copy of a dead user-generated blog), and thus is not a reliable source. If you wish to claim that "Seville is the warmest city in Continental Europe" then provide a WP:RS that says so, not a blog posting. Meters (talk) 20:41, 21 December 2021 (UTC)


 * excuse me but what? What "public forum" is that and what's the relationship with Wikipedia? No, I didn't know anything about that and it's obvious that you are editing as well in the meteoclub.gr website because you literally edit everything here on Wikipedia after it's being published on meteoclub.gr which again, 2 Wiki Admins told you already it's not a reliable source and you know it as well, since in the own TOS of the "meteoclub" website says "it's an amateur club where everyone can share their feelings/thoughts about the Greek Meteorology" proof: https://www.meteoclub.gr/poioi-eimaste does that sound like reliable to you? Albeit if you're not the one creating those blog entries (which I really doubt) that source is not reliable and it shouldn't be mentioned in any Wikipedia article, so please don't use double standards when editing other articles. I'm ok with removing the fact that Sevilla is the warmest city in continental Europe (which it really is, because it's only matched by Downtown Athens HNMS station, although Athens has many stations and most are colder, but nevermind) but please refrain yourself from doing the same stuff in Greek related articles where you deliberately write things based on meteoclub.
 * This is unrelated to Seville but I take profit of this talk to tell you this, since you would probably delete it if I wrote this in your talk page. If you want to edit properly Wikipedia with reliable Greek weather/climate data, then use HNMS official sources, use official reports of the National Observatory of Athens (official reports from their site, not gathered in meteoclub where it can be edited by anyone) and even regional data, as long as it's official, for example Attica's official website.
 * I can see, I thought it was a more reliable website but the entire website is dead (I thought only that article was dead) so I'm ok with that if that was just user generated. --TechnicianGB (talk) 21:13, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
 * It's not unreliable because the website is dead. Sources do not have to be online, and we have an archived copy. It is unreliable because it was a user-generated blog. See WP:BLOGS Meters (talk) 22:22, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Enough!Stop your accusations that I am editing meteoclub. This is really problematic behavior bordering a personal attack. Do not and I repeat do not claim again something which is totally baseless as I have explained very clearly. This does not show bone fide and it makes discussion very difficult with you, seeing that you stick to such a behavior. Now no, Seville is not the warmest city in continental Europe. Pretty much half of south Athens is by far the warmest area in continental Europe as shown by many of NOA Davis stations in south Athens compared head to head to Seville ones. Most importantly Piraeus is the warmest area in continental Europe according to the HNMS long term data for the same period with Seville's data (in case you want even more years of data worth from an HNMS station). But that's beside the point here. The point is that you tried to turn a clear content dispute into an edit war and all this by using personal attacks against me. Weatherextremes (talk) 21:26, 21 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Because I reply to you do you consider that a personal attack? I should recommend you to check No personal attacks since I didn't say anything considered as a personal attack to you except for the claim I've made that it's you editing that meteoclub.gr site and even if it's not you (which is clearly you btw) you post it very fast on Wikipedia. See what I was talking about? I knew the root of this entire problem, you only wanted that phrase deleted because it directly collides with the data presented on meteoclub, it seems you don't seem to distinguish between "city" and "area" and these "many NOA Davis stations" you talk about are just 2 stations and both offer few years of data as they accuracy is disputed as well.
 * HNMS is the only official climatic source on Greek climate data, and even if you use NOA ones use at least 20 years of data (even if the climatological normals are made within 30 years of data) not cherry picking the warmest station in few years to try to make a point. So no, like it or not, Seville 1981-2010 is warmer than the warmest HNMS station of Athens with 1991-2020 data, just wait for Seville's 1991-2020 data which is even warmer. Also, Seville's AEMET station is not even extremely influenced by UHI like the NOA Athens unofficial stations you refer to, because the station is located at the Seville Airport and not in rooftops like the NOA stations in Athens. But since I don't have any reliable source to put back that phrase I won't, but you also have to stop making such extremely biased claims such as you've done right now saying "Athens is by far the warmest area in continental Europe" because there isn't any single source backing up your claims except for Meteoclub.gr which is not even considered as a valid source because it's an user generated club where everyone can edit as written in the TOS of that site so stop making such WP:OR unsourced claims or stop putting data based on WP:SPS like Meteoclub.gr.
 * That Seville phrase is already deleted. But as a reminder, unreliable sources aren't accepted on Wikipedia as well as WP:NPOV is a must. This discussion ends here. --TechnicianGB (talk) 21:49, 21 December 2021 (UTC)


 * I have been following Meteoclub daily 11 years now so yes, excuse me If I am quick to edit if a reliable article pops up. But no, I am not in the editing team of the website. But it is interesting that you want to open the discussion of how pretty much half of south Athens beats Seville's mean annual temps. Really I do not see the point of having it here but let me entertain you! The HNMS station of Piraeus is you know a real HNMS station and just because you do not believe the meteoclub data, this means nothing to the Greek Met community. The community knows that meteoclub has one of the most reliable database of articles in Greek meteorology. I have asked the admins to review again the website but I never heard back from them. In fact it is so reliable that is it even quoted by the National Technical University of Athens in this source and it is in light of this source I have asked other admins to comment or check it out again. I noticed also that you left a message in my talk page about this issue which I will address here since you opened this very interesting discussion.


 * Can you imagine if Piraeus already beats Seville in the 1981-2010 means what it would do during the 1991-2020 period which has been hands down the warmest period by far in Greece and especially in Athens? Even the scientific magazine of NOA speaks of the new Athens climate in this new time series. Now lets go to the good staff! If you compare the downtown Seville Davis stations (you know stations similarly influenced by UHI) with the NOA Davis stations in South Athens you will see that south Athens is hands down the warmest area of continental Europe during the same period and with the same type of met stations compared to Seville. I specifically searched the warmest Seville Davis downtown station as suggested by meteoclub vs the warmest Davis NOA station in Athens (Triana vs Nea Smyrni). You can find the data of both here,  and run the comparisons yourself, simple math calculations do not constitute original research so you are safe to use these data directly to wiki articles if you wish. Granted, the period of parallel operation of both stations is only around 10 years but still these data are a good indication that south Athens (including the Athens Riviera) is unbeatable in continental Europe. Hands down for that matter! Nea Smyrni NOA is around 0.3C warmer annually and that's not the only NOA station. Compare Triana's data also with Neos Kosmos, Faliro or even Harokopeio University NOA stations and you will see that all of these stations also beat the warmest Seville Davis station for the periods or respective parallel operation of the stations.


 * Now if you don't believe me, your own calculations, meteoclub or the National Technical University of Athens you can directly order HNMS data for say Piraeus. I have done that and the HNMS data that I ordered corroborate all the above sources. I had in fact suggested in the past that you go ahead and email HNMS to get the data yourself and set up a shared email account where the whole wiki community could verify these! If the cost is problematic (which it shouldn't since I believe it cost me around 20-30 euros) I offer to cover the cost myself (we can discuss this through email if you want). Weatherextremes (talk) 22:51, 21 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Look dude, you're not a bad Wiki Editor and you act nice, which is really good even if we had this discussion, because I've had several discussions on the past with other editors (no matter the topic, just like anyone had discussions) but some of them act really agressively or bad, and I appreciate you are well educated, as you can see I also reply in the same exact way, so don't think I personally attack you or anything like that, because you are polite.
 * Look, let me tell you something, I don't have any problems with your edits or with meteoclub and that's why I'm not deliberately deleting everything coming from that site, because I do believe for example in the HNMS compilations from meteoclub, but keep something in mind, throwing a phrase such as "Southern Athens is the warmest place in Europe by far" is an unsourced, sentimental statement which needs a real background to be real, like for example an extended work that compares it with other places of Europe, whilst it doesn't, for example, the warmest areas of Portugal, Spain, Italy, Cyprus, don't have any reliable meteorological station, Greece at least has the NOA ones, these other Southern European countries don't. So that's why I find way too exaggerate to make such a statement when the only source is meteoclub. It doesn't matter if it's another person writing that, but meteoclub has serious flaws as a source because under the "sources" paragraph, as you can see they just put bold text instead of linking to real sources. And even if it's not a blog these are blog entries, and the TOS of the site clearly state it's a place for amateur meteorologists to share their thoughts and feelings, pretty similar to a forum.
 * Also, it's probably true that a couple of stations can be slightly warmer (0.2 - 0.3 is very slightly, not hands down) than Seville because of the extreme summer lows in Athens, but take in mind these aren't cities but stations, because as you know Athens has like 10-15 stations counting the NOA ones as well, because it's way more complex in geography/topography than Seville is, as Seville is at a low altitude near a river, Athens is a lot more complex. I didn't even know about that Seville IMS Davis website with the Triana station, it looks really interesting and I will see it. I believe you've done your calcullations, if that's the result you get, I believe it. Kalinychta! --TechnicianGB (talk) 23:14, 21 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the nice words. I also understand that you are thorough and educated and we had same discussions in the past which ended amicably that's why it surprises me that you keep on reporting me when I try to avoid this at all costs. Anyhow, you are right that Athens is much more complex that's why we can say for example Nea Smyrni, a suburb of Athens is the warmest area of continental Europe the past decade. I mean it's all how you phrase it!Besides, Piraeus, Nea Smyrni, even Faliro constitute cities (municipality seats according to Greece's administrative division) according to ELSTAT (Greece's Stats National Service). They are just past of metropolitan Athens. Try saying to a person from Piraeus that it is not a city separate to Athens and you will risk your life :). Anyhow, do the calculations yourself. You will see I am right and I got the insight from Meteoclub and their team.
 * Buenas Noches!!! Weatherextremes (talk) 23:50, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 24 September 2018 and 6 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Meganly.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 09:01, 17 January 2022 (UTC)