Talk:Sex Pistols

FA review needed?
Fifteen years have passed since the article's promotion to FA in 2006. One comment made by now-inactive editor two years ago has me thinking: has the article still lived up to FA standards today? Is the article about the rock band that lasted three years in 1970s detailed enough, under-detailed (despite the article's size), or overly detailed?

Also, one of the non-free images (File:Sex Pistols, August 1975.jpg) still has an incomplete rationale/summary, but that could be easily fixable. One of the links is dead. A UK chart column of the "Discography > Other albums" section lacks sources verifying peak positions. The "Legacy" section details impact on the US and the UK, but I can't see info about the band's impact elsewhere outside those countries. Also, unless otherwise, the "History" section would be too large to load and read, especially on mobile, and should be split into sections. Id est the "History" header should be eliminated, and its sub-headers should be converted into headers. --George Ho (talk) 08:07, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

As I see in WP:URFA/2020A, in August 2021 mentioned the article containing "excitable language and bloat". --George Ho (talk) 08:12, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

URFA/2020 and FARGIVEN
No response to concerns raised over a year ago; listing at WP:FARGIVEN. Sandy Georgia (Talk)  16:17, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

Subjective intro
"they are one of the most groundbreaking acts in the history of popular music" isn't very encyclopedic. There's no source to even say they're considered one of the most groundbreaking acts in the history of popular music — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.100.148.48 (talk) 11:00, 31 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Statements that are sourced in the body of the article don't need to also be sourced in the lead, and that statement ties back to a claim in the cultural influence section. However, I could not verify the claim from those sources so I have tagged it. QuietHere (talk) 06:52, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I support that tag and was glad to see it - but the lead is a problem. Musically they were not groundbreaking in any way at all. Hence McClaren's statement "Christ, if people bought the records for the music, this thing would have died a death long ago,". Quoted in 1977, just as the Pistols died a death. The line in the lead shocked me as it is stated in Wikivoice - the word 'considered' really ought to be there if the statement remains. Not to say that they didn't cause mayhem, of course, but that's not 'groundbreaking' either. (for critical context, Metal Box is considered 'groundbreaking') Cheers. Thelisteninghand (talk) 21:30, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Agree and have changed to "one of the most culturally influential acts ", which I think is fair enough (although more influential in Europe than the US). I always had the feeling that Lyndon left because of the pedestrian style and himself and wobble had already been plotting working towards Metal Box. Ceoil (talk) 23:26, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Other members
Should we include Wally Nightingale, Stella Nova (rhen known as Steve New) and Nick Kent as Sex Pistols? They were all early guitarists during the period in which Steve Jones was the vocalist and they were being billed under the "Sex Pistols" name at the time (although sometimes "QT Jones and his Sex Pistols"). They had a brief two guitar lineup even during Rotten’s time with the band with Nova. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Actuallyjoseph (talk • contribs) 07:31, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

SG review

 * Save for stats: 2002-12-26

I need to stop for a bit; this is quite discouraging, and I've barely scratched the surface. older versions had better citation formatting on the web sources, and converting a lot of them to sfns was a waste of time, now requiring more work to sort out titles, authors and publishers, and a number of those sources aren't worth the effort and may not be reliable. But going backwards isn't possible now. Language icons are needed throughout, actual titles are sometimes wrong, incorrect access-dates are given (you can't have an access-date before the publication date), and I'm only about two-thirds of the way through addressing this, and haven't yet read a thing. Maybe after you get through the list above you can look at all the other sources in terms of ... how many of them should be ditched in favor or higher quality sources before I spend time cleaning up the citation format? I strongly recommend in future efforts like this one that only books be converted to sfns; maintaining charts on music in the sfn format will be not fun. Sandy Georgia (Talk)  03:30, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ What is this?  Sheldon & Skinner 2006, pp. 29–3. ... is it 29–33 ???  Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  23:34, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
 * What was this wayward group note? Sandy Georgia (Talk)
 * Pls check this. Sandy Georgia (Talk)  23:34, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Pls check and remove if warranted. Sandy Georgia (Talk)  23:34, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ Why is this a reliable source from some pretty dicey text? https://web.archive.org/web/20070321032935/http://www.acc.umu.se/~samhain/summerofhate/punk.html Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  23:59, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Suggestion for the future: As you can probably see, I am having quite a time with citation cleanup.  It appears that at some point, all the sources were converted to sfn, and in order to trick the sfn template on those sources that have no author, the publisher was used as the last name of the author. So I'm having to fix all of those with a named harvid.  Much easier, for future reference, is to just convert book sources to sfns, and leave the websources and other with ref tags; trying to get an sfn to work on a webpage with no author is more work than its worth.  Still working to fix authors to publishers.  Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  00:54, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ Don't know what to make of this: Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  01:11, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Is this worth the effort to find a source? Sandy Georgia (Talk)  02:31, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ What can be done with this? * Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  02:34, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ Ditto: Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  02:48, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ What are we to make of this? Can another source be found?  Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  03:03, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I think this one is OK -- will reformat it correctly ... Sandy Georgia (Talk)  15:24, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ What is this? (Language icons are missing throughout and reliability on all need to be checked).  Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  03:15, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ Is this a high enough quality source for the text it's citing? Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  03:17, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
 * What are these? (Footnotes are dynamic on Wikipedia.) See fn. 17.  Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  04:53, 10 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Spent an hour or so recovering :) Back with a recommendation.  Converting books to sfn is fine and good and optimal.  Converting websources to sfn on an article of this nature is inviting a maintenance nightmare.  I recommend going back to non-book sources being cited with ref tags.  The sooner the better, because there's still a ton of work to be done here, and charts will need constant updating; doing that with sfns won't be fun, since most don't have an author name.  See J. K. Rowling; books and long journal articles needing page numbers use sfns, the rest do not.  I'll convert them back if we get agreement, but it would be good to first deal with the question list above, because some of the sourcing isn't up to FA standards. Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  05:02, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Haven't gone through proprally, yet, but there may be more work than had though. The ref format decided on last years FAR on Spiderland worked for me, but how that could/should convert here; dunno yet. Will update over weekend, and thanks for the massive effort: fixing and reviewing :) Ceoil (talk) 21:27, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
 * As update have removed most of the above but realise more needed. Ceoil (talk) 22:10, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Checking back through-- now in better shape, recognizing work still needed to re-cite some things ... it looks like we'll get there, and my apologies for not yet having done a read-through. Sandy Georgia (Talk)  15:26, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Citation work
I will recompile here a list citations I still haven't finished working on; some are missing the parameters for | language= and the correct | title = with a | trans-title = ... others I just haven't gotten to yet (as it would be so much easier if websources had been left as citation templates):
 * Missing publisher, NVPI is not author (what is NVPI, publisher link?), and title is incorrect with no lang= or trans-title
 * I can't find this at that page?
 * Unsure how to handle this one ? It's unclear to me if rocklist.net has copyright permission to duplicate Rolling Stone material ??
 * I don't know what fodderstompf is ??
 * Can we improve on this source? The text it's citing seems uncontroversial, and we can probably find it in a better source?  *

stopping there to give you a chance to catch up; this kind of work wipes out my back from the old injury. Sandy Georgia (Talk)  18:06, 15 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Missing page numbers, for book chapters, multiple thereof; missing publisher locations, multiple thereof. Keep on going on with the snide digs Sandy.  SN54129  16:57, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I do not know what "snide digs" you are referring to, nor do I have any reason for them in general or here among friends; please visit my talk page if you have more on that. Publisher locations are not universally needed; reference multiple past comments from and elsewhere. They are usually only needed when there is a lack of clarity (see El Universal as an example).  If you see missing page numbers, could  you please template them?  I have not yet even vaguely reached that point ... I'm still working on citations overall, and have only scratched the surface so far.  After a few days off, I'm digging back in now, as I have the rest of the day free. Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  17:07, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
 * PS, the page number work would be easier if we had only SFNs on books, with websources using cite templates, as that would make it easier to pick out the book sources with missing page nos. If you two agree, I'd be happy to move the websources back to cite templates, but if that's the way you want to go, it would still be best to sort the questions above first. Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  18:41, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
 * There are five locations given in Book sources; since all of those books have ISBNs, I suggest removing location on all. I don't see any ambiguity.  Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  19:27, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I was not able to find any missing page numbers. Sandy Georgia (Talk)  01:51, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Most citations use last name, first initial while some use last name, first name ... even when full first name is available (eg Ingham, J is Jonh). What is the desired format?  Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  18:44, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Almost all of the books sources use full first name-- a small number use initial, so I'll switch all authors to full first name where available, unless one of you disagree. Sandy Georgia (Talk)  19:28, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Adding missing first names, Sandy Georgia (Talk)  01:55, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Prose queries

 * This kind of superlative might warrant a lead citation? ... they were one of the most culturally influential acts in popular music.
 * Possessive (apostrophe)? The Sex Pistols first line up consisted of vocalist
 * Done. Ceoil (talk) 02:36, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Contradiction? Clarify ? LEAD: one of the most censored records in British history.  BODY:  ... according to the music critic Alexis Petridis, the "most heavily censored record in British history".[161]
 * Done. Ceoil (talk) 02:36, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Consistency in ratings? Unsure if WP:ALBUMS or WP:SONGS have a guideline, but I can't find one:
 * Their only album, Never Mind the Bollocks, Here's the Sex Pistols (1977) was a UK number one ... versus
 * In 2004, Rolling Stone placed them No. 58 ...
 * The album was a UK nr 1 (that week), the band were rated 58 (of all time) by Rolling stone.
 * Something more descriptive than "staple"? and has become a staple record of punk rock ...
 * Word has been removed. Ceoil (talk) 02:10, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

History

 * Do we need this bit? Should the shop have its own article instead? McLaren's and Westwood's shop had opened in 1971 as Let It Rock, with a 1950s revival Teddy Boy theme. It had been renamed in 1972 to focus on another revival trend, the '50s rocker look.[8]
 * I think so, as it explains that Punk was infulenced by UK Sub-culture going back to the 50s. 03:28, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Redundant --> such as = among others ? bringing together participants such as the future Sid Vicious, Marco Pirroni, Gene October, and Mark Stewart, among many others.
 * Done. Ceoil (talk) 23:49, 18 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Easter egg --> Jordan links to Pamela Rooke (inside info ???)
 * Since the previous was talking about the shop, this sentence might benefit from adding "of the band", so the reader doesn't have to think too hard to sort out management of what. In early 1974, Jones asked McLaren to take over management.
 * He personally relocated, or he actually moved the shop to NYC as well? In November, McLaren temporarily relocated to New York City.
 * Removed. Ceoil (talk) 02:36, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Why italics ? to S&M-inspired "anti-fashion",
 * Done. Ceoil (talk) 23:49, 18 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Lower case on Specialists ?? advertised as "Specialists in rubberwear, glamourwear & stagewear".
 * Done. Ceoil (talk) 23:49, 18 July 2023 (UTC)


 * In several places, why is the shop SEX (Sex (boutique)) in italics?
 * Done. Ceoil (talk) 23:49, 18 July 2023 (UTC)


 * The single and double quotes here are mismatched, but I can't access the sources, so don't know how to fix: but left when Lydon joined, who "took one look at him and said, 'No. That has to go ... He's never written a good word about me ever since."[35][36] I suspect a missing single quote after has to go ?
 * Done Cut a little as its a bit fluffy. Ceoil (talk) 23:49, 18 July 2023 (UTC)


 * The flow here seems to name them the Sex Pistols before we say they were named the Sex Pistols ... New left after just a month as a Sex Pistol.[39] Lydon was renamed "Johnny Rotten" by Jones, apparently because of his bad teeth.[28][40][41] After considering band name options such as Le Bomb, Subterraneans, the Damned, Beyond, Teenage Novel, Kid Gladlove, and Crème de la Crème, they decided on Sex Pistols.[42][43]
 * Done (I think but need to revisit). Ceoil (talk) 23:49, 18 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Here we revert to a short name ... is that common ... should it mentioned in the lead as an alternate name ? The Pistols performed several covers,

Early following

 * The "History" section is most of the article; at this point (they are now The Sex Pistols), is a new main heading warranted?
 * What do you think about:
 * 1	Beginnings
 * 1.1	Formation
 * 1.2	Lydon joins
 * 1.3	Early following
 * 2  Fame
 * 2.1 The Grundy Incident
 * 2.2 Sid Vicious replaces Matlock
 * 2.3 God Save the Queen
 * 2.4 Bollocks album
 * 3 Break-up
 * 3.1	Aftermath
 * 3.2	Post-Lydon releases
 * 3.3	Reunions


 * This seems best, but need to ponder. Ceoil (talk) 23:47, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Another italization of SEX, which is a shop, why italics, fix throughout? much of it supplied by SEX,
 * Italics removed. Ceoil (talk) 23:47, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
 * These interests were shared with Jamie Reid, a ... it's odd to start a new paragraph this way. There's one FAC reviewer who wants to be able to scan the topic sentence of paragraphs to get an overview ... and here "these" as the intro to a new para is undefined.
 * Not a sentence: According to writer Jon Savage, Lydon "with his green hair, hunched stance and ragged loo... like a cross between Uriah Heep and Richard Hell".
 * This could be tightened ... Their first gig to attract attention ... that attracted (media? What?) attention from whom or according to whom? It looks like, from the next sentence, the first to get a serious review ?? Fix flow ...
 * Another use of "The Pistols", so maybe add that to the lead as alternate name? Also, this is ambiguous.  It's not really a debut of the group as they've played elsewhere ?  Debut at that club?  Is that really a debut ?? The Pistols soon played other important venues, notably debuting at Oxford Street's 100 Club on 30 March.
 * Scheduled to perform just one song, "Anarchy in the U.K.", the band ran straight through another two numbers as pandemonium broke out in the control room.[88]. Pandemonium broke out because they played over, or they played over while pandemonium broke out for another reason?
 * was "considered the moment that was the catalyst for the years to come". ... this is cited to three sources, so I'm not worried that the statement needs attribution, but how can one quote come from three different sources? Who originally said this?

Mainstream fame

 * This article is almost 10,000 words of readable prose (typical for DCGeist work-- he simply did not use WP:SS, an WP:WIAFA criterion). My first impression of this section is that far too much space is given to the Grundy incident, when it has its own article.  Trimming potential ??  We don't need all the blow-by-blow detail when there is a sub-article. They said fucking and shit on an early evening television show seems enough; the thing goes on for four paragraphs with two ultra-long quotes.
 * As a first example: Chris Thomas, who had produced Roxy Music and mixed Pink Floyd's The Dark Side of the Moon, was brought in to produce. (Chris Thomas has his own article; offtopic here ?)
 * Flow is off in first para. They get a contract.  They start recording.  The band rejects it.  That ends that, one thinks? But then we're told of the producer ???  And then the same para goes in to a single.  So what did they reject, exactly? Was the single released instead of an album?
 * Is the influential needed here ? Colin Newman of the influential band Wire, described it as "the clarion call of a generation".[105]
 * Could you check this versus the source in terms of copyvio or paraphrasing? It reads like a quote ... and seems to beg for attribution.  The Pistols' stance was aggrieved, euphoric and nihilistic, all at the same time. Rotten's howls of "I am an anti-Christ" and "Destroy!" repurposed rock as an ideological weapon.
 * The second para seems to still have plenty of that "flowery language" you mentioned earlier.
 * Mostly done, but pls check! Ceoil (talk) 03:20, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Anarchy in the U.K. has its own article; trimming potential here?
 * Cut, not thionk its fine; it explains how they caught on, and how their graphic-art style was already in place. Ceoil (talk) 03:20, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Is this original research ? The Sex Pistols' behaviour, as much as their music, brought national attention.
 * No, hold on Ceoil (talk) 03:20, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
 * This guy doesn't have a Wikipedia article; what makes his views relevant or worthy of a four-sentence quote? Can't the quote be cut down to a one-sentence summary? London Conservative councillor Bernard Brook Partridge declared, "Most of these groups would be vastly improved by sudden death. The worst of the punk rock groups I suppose currently are the Sex Pistols. They are unbelievably nauseating. They are the antithesis of humankind. I would like to see somebody dig a very, very large, exceedingly deep hole and drop the whole bloody lot down it."
 * Why do we care? The band played twice in December 1976 at the Electric Circus, Manchester.
 * Removed Ceoil (talk) 23:55, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

Sid Vicious replaces Matlock

 * The entire first para, vis-a-vis The Beatles, could be much more tightly worded ... too much quoting, we can get the picture by using our own words.
 * What does this add? Julien Temple says that getting rid of Glen and replacing him with Sid was the last project he saw Rotten and Malcolm really work together on".
 * Removed Ceoil (talk) 23:55, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
 * My sense is the first para could be cut by a third; too much quoting, too little summarizing.
 * Sid Vicious has his own article; why do we need his other names and so much of his background here? In this part of the article, I'm feeling the usual of DCGeist overburdening the reader.
 * This was cut. Ceoil (talk) 02:36, 7 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Too much quoting; this can be better summarized (and something wonky at the end): According to Jones, "to Cookie and me, it just didn't make any sense to have someone who couldn't play a note trying to fill Glen's shoes, but it was never about the music for McLaren ... from the minute Sid joined the band, nothing was ever normal again."[138] "After I left, the band became just what Malcolm thought they should. They were the Sex Pistols as a cartoon strip." (Glen Matlock)
 * Temple is mentioned earlier, can this explanation of who he is be moved to first mention (sources need to be moved?) Temple, then a film student whom McLaren had employed to create a comprehensive audiovisual record of the band,
 * Not a sentence, where as it going? For a view that Vicious was a more competent bass player than his reputation would have it.

God Save the Queen

 * This should be attributed: The song's social impact is now recognised as "punk's crowning glory".[162]
 * There is a match here, but have my doubts as to which came first. Ceoil (talk) 03:31, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
 * On what charges? While the band members and their equipment were hustled down a side stairwell, McLaren, Westwood, and many of the band's entourage were arrested.
 * Is this supposed by the British Phonographic Industry? There is evidence that an exceptional directive was issued by the British Phonographic Institute,
 * What are these ? there was a rivalry between gangs of rockabillies or Teddie Boys
 * I don't see what this adds ... During the tour, a Swedish interviewer told Jones that "a lot of people" regarded the band as McLaren's "creation". Jones replied, "He's our manager, that's all. He's got nothing to do with the music or the image ... he's just a good manager."[citation needed]

Album

 * What are "both" Bodies ? Containing both "Bodies"—
 * Jesus. Reworded. Ceoil (talk) 02:09, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Consistency? Not sure what WP:ALBUMS or WP:SONGS guidelines are, but the lead mentions a No. 58, here we have ... Nonetheless, advance sales were sufficient to make it an undeniable number one on the album chart.  Not sure what the norm is.
 * Resolved. Ceoil (talk) 02:36, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Just checking ... bans or bands ? the band set out on a Never Mind the Bans tour
 * "bans" is the official release name. Added [SIC[ to clarify. Ceoil (talk) 02:09, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
 * To clarify, it was called "bans" because the single, and then the band (from touring) was banned. Hold on. Ceoil (talk) 02:10, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Break-up

 * I can't recall reading about his criminal record ? delayed due to American authorities' reluctance to issue a visa to Jones, given his criminal record,
 * Scarred ? (How ?) appeared with the words "Gimme a fix" scared on his chest.
 * Note to self — these not done. Ceoil (talk) 23:00, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Aftermath

 * Off-topic? Has its own article. The band scored a UK top-ten hit with their debut single, 1978's "Public Image".
 * I'd like to keep this in as PIL's "Public Image" is the best thing Lyndon ever did, and shows how far he developed almost immediately after the pistols.
 * Off-topic? Has its own article. ... backed by the Idols, featuring Arthur Kane and Jerry Nolan of the New York Dolls.
 * Trimmed Ceoil (talk) 01:52, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Off-topic? Has its own article. ...  and dressed only in her underwear.
 * Trimmed Ceoil (talk) 01:52, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
 * After reading his article, her article, and Redglare's article, all of this is either too speculative or off-topic: In an interview at the time, McLaren said, "I can't believe he was involved in such a thing. Sid was set to marry Nancy in New York. He was very close to her and had quite a passionate affair with her."[216] The actor Rockets Redglare, who delivered pills to the apartment, has been mentioned as a possible alternative to Vicious as Spungen's killer.[217]
 * Removed, Nancy was using Sid as a hook up for heroin, but not for here. Ceoil (talk) 01:52, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Off-topic, gratuitous overquoting? He has his own article; this article is the band. He was 21 years old. Reflecting on the event, Lydon said, "Poor Sid. The only way he could live up to what he wanted everyone to believe about him was to die. That was tragic, but more for Sid than anyone else. He really bought his public image."[220]
 * I'm fine with this, it shows he was about image rather than bass guitar, but ok might trim or switch quotes to prose. Also Lydon has said many times he has major regrets about what happened to Sid; might rephrase with more sensitivity....Ceoil (talk) 02:32, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Removed in the end. Ceoil (talk) 02:10, 7 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Off-topic? McLaren, with substantial personal debts and legal fees, took off for Paris to sign a record deal for an LP of standards, including "Non, je ne regrette rien".
 * Pretentious quote...removed. Ceoil (talk) 01:52, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Post-Lydon releases

 * Convoluted, hard to get through: On 21 November 1980, the final "new" studio recordings attributed to the Sex Pistols were released by Virgin: "Black Leather" and "Here We Go Again", recorded by Jones and Cook during the mid-1978 Swindle sessions, were paired as one of a half-dozen 7-inch records (the other five reconfiguring previously released material) sold together as Sex Pack.[228][229]
 * Removed this. Never heard of it, Google agrees. Ceoil (talk) 02:08, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Is heavilly BrEng? The Great Rock 'n' Roll Swindle heavilly reflects McLaren's vision
 * Fixed. Ceoil (talk) 02:10, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Reunions
Nothing.

Influence

 * From what source comes this? Although the Pistols were not the first punk band, the few recordings they released during their brief initial existence were catalytic expressions of the punk movement. The releases of "Anarchy in the U.K.", "God Save the Queen" and Never Mind the Bollocks are counted among the most important events in popular music.
 * Something wonky here: Among the audience of merely forty people or so were many who became leading figures in the punk and post-punk movements: Pete Shelley and Howard Devoto, who organised the gig, as well as Bernard Sumner, Ian Curtis and Peter Hook of Joy Division, Mark E. Smith, John Cooper Clarke, Morrissey and Anthony H. Wilson saw the band at their second Manchester band on 20 July.[78]
 * Its actually true!., Morrissey was also there!...will work on...prob next weekend. zzz and thanks!!! Ceoil (talk) 02:05, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Done now - "catalytic expressions" (ugg) removed, and "among the most important events in popular music" reffed by those supporting the preceding list of rankings. Ceoil (talk) 04:14, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

Conceptual basis

 * Unpaired quote marks: Toby Creswell argues that the Pistols agenda was inchoate, to say the least. It was a general call to rebellion that falls apart at the slightest scrutiny."[271]
 * Done. Ceoil (talk) 02:36, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Guest musicians
Done for now, Sandy Georgia (Talk)  21:35, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Something missing: Musicians other Jones and Cook who recorded songs on The Great Rock 'n' Roll Swindle:

Note: have spun out the discography to Sex Pistols discography as it was a mess, and what is canonical (ie pre, with and post..or witout) Rotten was prev, IMO, silly. Article disc now limited to with Rotten/Lyndon, per all sources.Ceoil (talk) 01:42, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Conceptual basis
I think it would be valuable to add this quote from Jon Savage's England's Dreaming (page 71) to the conceptual basis section of the page.

"In fact, it was Steve Jones who first had the idea of putting the group, or any group, together with McLaren. He chose McLaren, not vice versa."

Don't know how to go about adding it so it fits with the rest of the section so I'm putting it here. Theotherdavis (talk) 06:58, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Tidbits
Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 04:18, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
 * 1) Who is quoted with "would wear a velvet ..." and can there be in-text attribution?
 * 2) Is it relevant to mention the Golden Jubilee year? Not in source.
 * 3) Is there reason to capitalize "Top Ten" or other numbers in some places but have the lowercase, hyphenated "top-ten" in others?
 * Only spotting these now....Ceoil (talk) 03:14, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Apologies; only done now. Ceoil (talk) 07:05, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

U.S. tour
The article states the 1978 U.S. tour was scheduled for 9 dates, but the Pistols only played 5 shows in 12 days. This is incorrect. According to the official Sex Pistols website - at https://www.sexpistolsofficial.com/gig-archive-1975-2008/ - one show on Dec. 28 (1977) in Pittsburgh was cancelled, then they played 7 shows between Jan. 5 and Jan. 14 (nine days). Elsquared67 (talk) 04:39, 31 March 2024 (UTC)


 * ? The source we're citing also says seven shows. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 04:43, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Counting out, I also get seven: Atlanta, Memphis, San Antonio, Baton Rouge, Dallas, Tulsa and San Francisco, and see. Thanks OP; hang on. Ceoil (talk) 06:39, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Article updated: see also "Notwithstanding their ill-fated 7-date fiasco", Billboard 2 Aug 2003. Need to check re nine days total. Ceoil (talk) 06:47, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Will be a few days before I get to validate the original schedule, but its more than probable that OP is right on the timeline; billboard here says two dates were cancelled and 7+2= 9. Ceoil (talk) 07:30, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Ok done. Good spot Elsquared67. Ceoil (talk) 07:44, 31 March 2024 (UTC)