Talk:Shakira/Archive 2

Ain't It Funny
Isn't it funny that two of the biggest songs in the history of her career were reggaeton influenced but they doesn't get any mention in her song genres credit? Once again Black music gets pushed to side while the 'other' genre gets its credit, but don't worry, one day we'll prevail, BABYLON WILL FALL!1!!!11

Really? I wonder, have you been living in a cave lately? If you'd open your eyes, you'd realise that black music is exactly what is being pushed out from all directions. To be honest, I think it's a bloody shame, because artists like 50cent, in my opinion, are talentless. The good black music, of course, doesn't manage to surface. But hey, that has been the case with every music ever since the 70's.

Yea, well not saying you don't have a point, but it still doesn't change the fact that two of her BIGGEST hit singles to date have been in that new genre, yet it still recieves no credit on her profile.

Maybe two of her hits were reggaeton, but that's just not her style. I don't care abot that two songs, because all her discography is pop-rock. In my opinion, it would be very unfair to clasify Shakira as a reggeaton artist because of two songs which are not only reggaeton, by the way. La Tortura has dance hall and Hips Don't Lie has hip-hop. So it's not only reggaeton. Both songs are horrible in my opinion, and they have nothing to do with the real Shakira. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.60.51.220 (talk) 14:10, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

Too bad that those two songs are her biggest hits ever lol (La Tortura is the BIGGEST SPANISH SONG ever, and Hips Don't Lie is the biggest song in her entire career), and her so called 'Rock' songs have other musical influences also, so hush!...;) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Drake2u (talk • contribs) 01:40, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Arabic Spelling
My arabic is not all that great, either that or my computer's blurry, but is the arabic spelling of her name correct? from what i read, it looks like it would be pronounced shaLkira, not shakira... anybody know?

The word شاكيرة is pronounced shakira in arabic but with a long i like the word keep. But it's spelling is not correct, the correct word is شاكرة pronouced with a short i like the word tick.

Tour Anfibio
In the article it says: "In March 2000 Shakira embarked on her Tour Anfibio, a three-month tour of Latin America and the United States." However, upon clicking on Tour Anfibio the article there says that the tour was two-months long. I've looked for her performances here and of course in our Wiki article here  and apparently it did last two months. I've gone ahead and edited the article. If anyone thinks it should still be 3 months long please discuss. Thanks! --LethalAmbition 22:01, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

MySpace
Is this her official MySpace page? 70.48.166.140 18:06, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes.

Single
In the first paragraph it says 'Singel' i think it should be single but it could be spanish but i don't know


 * This has appeared to be fixed. Josh 23:15, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Regarding the unflattering image
OK, this has been in debate for quite a while. Lets try and get it settled... the user User:Abu badali insists that this free image should be used.

Despite the fact that almost weekly, users upload a more recent photo (the Badali image is from 2005), where Shakira isn't pulling an unusual face. These are almost instantly removed and put up for deletion by Badali..

Many users have protested the use of this image on the talkpage, in favour of using one which is more recent, and more representative of the artists look... for example.


 * I think the picture of her at the Wal-Mart shareholders meeting is unflattering. The picture of her receiving the MTV award is better and should be reinstated as the main picture at the top of the article. -
 * Honestly. She doesn't walk around with a butterface 99% of time. It would be better if we added an album picture if it was this hard to find a live one. --
 * Found new free photo, hope this one is better. - (his image was later deleted)
 * Please, Somebody change that infamous picture for Christ sake!! -
 * many other pages don't have free pictures, if there aren't any good ones. E.g. there are very unflattering pictures of Drew Barrymore, but the main picture is from one of her movies. So why not a screencap from one of her videos? I used a picture from Hips Don't Lie, I realize it isn't free. But it is fairuse, and we can roll with it for now. -
 * The picture is outdated. This image however is from this year, the other picture barely resembles what she looks like and should not be used on the article. - Deathrocker (image was later removed)
 * The main picture of Shakira should be replaced by a worhtier one, the current one does not help this article as a whole. The picture itself seems to be appropiate for this article. There are far better looking ones of her. It has been replaced for a better version but someone keeps changing it to this unworthy photograph. —
 * That is a horrible picture though. -
 * It's a photoshopped image, anyway. She doesn't have that large a chin no matter what angle you use. . . - unsigned
 * I believe it is fair use to use the MTV screenshot, low-res version, to identify the MTV awards that Shakira was a part of. See fair use for program ID. It would not be fair use if the caption did not mention the program---but it does. -
 * All these quotes aposed to the use of the derogatory image, can be found in the following link

Now then... the official policy regarding publicity images states, and I quote; "If it is possible to replace the publicity image with a new, free, image of similar value to the reader then the free image must be used in preference to the restricted and copyrighted publicity photograph."

The free image which is in place of a publicity image is not new, it is from 2005. The subject has a different look and promotional pictures which came out around the time of her most recent tour (this year) can be found.

It also states of "similar value to the reader", many users as shown above through community concensus, have stated that they find the image devoid of value as it is particully unflattering and that they want another image in its place. I suggest it be replaced with a more recent promotional image, until a free one of similar value can be produced, as the current derogatory image fails the policy in regards to images it was replacing in the first place. - Deathrocker 23:40, 2 October 2006 (UTC)


 * In acordance with Wikipedia community concensus and the policy regarding retaining article value (which the badali image failed), as shown above, I have replaced the image with this, more recent promotional one; . Until a suitable free, new replacement can be found, that doesn't degrade the value of the article. - Deathrocker 08:16, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

It violates WP:FU though which is policy and Jimbo himself discouraged promo photos. A better free image should be found though, maybe talk to the promo photoplace its self and check if they can release one under a free licence. Jaranda wat's sup 21:20, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Shakira's genre
Please change Shakira's genre. She's not just Latin Pop and Dance Music. She's also heavily influenced by rock. She's also Rock en Español and Alternative. I think you guys really need to listen to her music rather than just her singles in order to say what genre she's in.


 * Shakira is is pop singer who has (in the past) recorded rock songs. So are Kelly Clarkson, Paulina Rubio, Belinda, and even Thalia. She is not representative of the Latin Rock genre. She is also a pop singer that has recorded reggeaton songs. A comparison must also be made to Luis Miguel who despite being a GREAT ranchera singer is not viewed the same way as a Vicente Fernandez or Pablo Montero. Luis Miguel is first and foremost a pop singer. Hope this helps.


 * The dancing that Shakira does for "La Tortura" is clearly adapted from West African tribal dancing and not belly dancing. Considering she comes from a city with a heavy African cultural influence it would make sense that Shaki would borrow those moves.

I removed Pop music from the genres in the infobox, and I noticed it was re-added, so let's discuss. Shakira's first three albums are obviously Latin pop since they were pop in Spanish. Her two English albums have also been classified as Latin pop by All Music Guide. Since Latin pop is a subgenre of pop and is much more descriptive, it's my opinion that Latin pop should be used in place of pop. Using both seems unnecessary since a Latin pop artist is a type of pop artist. ShadowHalo 06:01, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I’m wary of categorizing Shakira as “rock en español” because it gives the false impression that she is considered part of the Latin Alternative movement. In a recent interview with the LATV network show Rokamole, Tomas Cookman of Nacional Records and co-founder of the LAMC said of her winning a Grammy as a rock album, “what the hell’s that all about?” (Remember the Grammys also notoriously gave Jethro Tull an award in the Heavy Metal category.) Cookman did say she was “great” however. I personally give more credibility to the Billboard Award categorizations where she has always competed as Pop because they determine these based on the stores categorizations. (Although these are by no means infallible.)

Saying she’s “rock influenced” doesn’t necessarily prove anything. Juan Luis Guerra claims his biggest influence is the Beatles. Nor does arguing about her “very obvious” love for rock music. Tego Calderon has said many times that he is a fan of and was even influenced by heavy metal. If we’re going to include Shakira as “rock en español” it is only logical – and fair – that we also include people like Ricardo Arjona, Belinda, Jeremias, Nek, Alex Ubago, and Jesse & Joy among many others, as they are all “rock influenced” and/or have recorded rock songs. To not include them as “rock en español” would be an example of clear favoritism towards Shakira. (In no way am I saying that rock is good and pop is bad.) I can’t stress this enough, but it’s ultimately a matter not of whether Shakira is “more rock” than the people I just mentioned but if she’s AS rock as Erica Garcia, Babasonicos, Kinky, Zoe, Jaguares, and the other acts who are legitimately considered to be a part of the Latin Alternative movement. She is not. - Mymelody —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mymelody (talk • contribs) 15:58, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Que Me Queues Tu
Minor translation thing. In the article, "Que Me Quedes Tu" was translated as "That You Stay With Me." This is not really correct. If you want to be literal about it this should be translated as "That You May Stay With Me" or "That You Should Say With Me" (or slightly less literally, "May You Stay With Me"). Since obviously these sound strange in contemporary English, more appropriate translations would be "I Hope You Stay With Me," "I Hope You Will Stay With Me," or simply "Stay With Me." The song's producers would probably use "Stay With Me" since this is what an American would generally say. But I expect many fans would prefer "I Hope You Stay With Me" since it is slightly closer in meaning to the Spanish. --Mcorazao 21:08, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

"Que me quedes tú - I hope you stay with me" is also incorrect
Is funny talk about this, Im not discussing anything really important here.

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

Also in spanish, ..."Que me quedés tú" doesnt make sense without another part. You can add:

"ESPERO que me quedes tú" (I HOPE that you stay with me)

Makes more sense.

Ok, there is another problem. "Que me quedes tu" doesnt talk about "stay with me". Is talks more about "having another option left" in case of a problem or when no other options are available. Is more like this example:

"Espero que me quede otra moneda en el bolsillo"

I hope that I have another coin left on my pocket

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

By the way, I see I'm the wrost spanish teacher in the world hehehe. But I hope this can entretain somebody. --
 * the correct translation for "Que me quedes tú" based on the regional language context were she is from in Colombia is kind of a wishful expression, "[I wish] you are the result for me" or "...That my result be you"... -- F3rn 4nd0  [[Image:Flag of the United States.svg|20px]] 17:25, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
 * By the way, please sign your comments!! press [shift] + the button by the left of you numeber one button [1] with the symbol ~ and pressing it four consecutive times! -- F3rn 4nd0  [[Image:Flag of the United States.svg|20px]] 17:40, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

An Celebrated
Um, in the first paragraph it says that Shakira is "an celebrated singer-songwriter." Does anyone else see a problem with this?

I have to agree with the fact the Shakira is more rock influenced, unlike Kelly Clarkson, Paulina Rubio, Belinda, Thalia who have their songs written and produced for them. If you do more research the love that Shakira has for rock music is very obvious. In fact MOST of her songs are based on rock music. Though she have many worldy additions to her music like the Arabic doumbek and reggaeton beat from the Carribean, this does not dimish her classic rock atitude. May I also add that she writes her own music so it's not that any of this is forced on her. She deserves at least the genre of Spanish Rock (Rock en Expañol)

About the comment above mine, it is very true that La Tortura has a African Tribal influence in the instrumental part of the song, there is still a very belly dance feel to her moves in the same part and through out the song, especially where she sings the part which ends the chorus "con ese hueso y nos decimos adios" she exhibits the move called "piston hips" as it is know by many popular Cabaret Belly Dancers. Her chest pops are also derived from very legitimate belly dance style that is commonly used. Nicolasytony 08:27, 17 January 2007 (UTC

Guitar
Does Shakira play guitar? I know I've seen her playing a guitar in the music videos for "Estoy Aquí", "Pies Descalzos, Sueños Blancos", "Objection/Te Aviso, Te Anuncio", and "", but does she actually play? —ShadowHalo 08:06, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, she does, actually you can watch her mtv unplugged to see and hear how she can play the guitar and the harmonica Soda-POP 08:11, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes find any performance of her song Inevitable and you'll see her playing the guitar. She also played a guitar on Don't Bother on her Oral fixation tour.

shakilover 03:27, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

She does play the guitar. Also, random knowledge, there are performances/songs where she has played the harmonica. --Idolmonkey 21:55, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Albums Sales
It's been officialy confirmed shakira has only sold 3 million albums worldwide. yet this page says shes sold 40 million albums. i think fans are changing it because theyre fans and not using factual information. please find a real source of information and use official sale amounts.

Well, it was stated that she had sold over 30 million albums before Fijacion Oral and Oral fixation were released. These two albums sold approximately 4 million and 5.5 million respectively. bringing her total close to 40 million.

shakilover 03:26, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Data on this page is highly inflated. According to United World Charts, which is referenced for another stat, Laundry Service has sold 9.55 million worldwide. Shakira - Oral Fixation Volume 2 sold 4m. Other data is also available there.

That's because the United World Charts only count albums sales when they are in the top 40. For example if an album sells 40,000 copies but it doesn't make the top 40 then United World Charts doesnt count that when they show the total sold. But yes have to agree album sales are very much inflated, I've been changing them to more reasonable figures but they keep putting up those made up figures.

Shakira is from Washington, not ColUmbia, this mistake happens all the time and as a native Washington, I find it very insulting that people don't know the difference between a country and a district, but never confuse Britney Spears and Paris Hilton.

shakilover 06:47, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

NO it hasn't, her Laundry Service album sold at least 13 million, Donde estan los ladrones at least 8 million, thats 21 million already. Pies Descalzos, The Remixes, Mtv unplugged, Magia and Peligro then adds up to about 30 million in total. Then Oral fixation and fijacion oral is about 7-8million each.

She has sold more than 60 millions of albums....she is the most famous artist at this momment...her tour was a huge success. Catsmartie 12:48, 5 May 2007 (UTC)CatsmartieCatsmartie 12:48, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

PD- 5 million

DELL- 7.5 million

LS- 14 million

FO Vol. 1 - 4 million [shakira.com confirs it in the biography]

OF Vol. 2 - 8 million [shakira.com confirs it in the biography]

The Remixes, Grandes Éxitos, MTV Unplugged and Live & Off The Record- No more than 12 million between all.

Total- Around 50 million

Goat vocalist
Messy Thinking 22:34, 20 January 2007 (UTC) I've noticed that there's nothing in the current article concerning the comparisons she drew to a goat. Since it seems to be everywhere biographical info on her can be found, the goat comparisons must have shaped her career significantly.

Oh, and this article has something else to say about her famous behind.
 * If it was ever in there, it was probably taken removed for being unsourced controversy (see Biographies of living persons). I've added the comparison in (with a reference to BBC News).  ShadowHalo 06:50, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Name Inconsistency.
I have noticed an inconsistency with Shakira's name. OIn the infobox to the right, it says her full name is Shakira Isabel Mebarak Ripoll Reath, while the first paragraph says her full name is Shakira Isabel Mebarak Ripoll. Which is correct? Acalamari 03:14, 27 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Possibly a change from birth name to current name? Josh 23:32, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

The correct name is Shakira Isabel Mebarak Ripoll, as she says in Live And Off The Record documentary.

Americanized Article
The fact that Shakira performed Rock en español and only became a "pop star" 10 years into her career in 2001 when she crossed over into the English speaking market, is totally ignored. Notice how on the Spanish article it says "pop rock" as the genre?


 * I'm putting Rock en español back in her infobox. - Deathrocker 20:28, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Name of the song Hips Don't Lie [En Español]?
Is it Será Será, or is it Las Caderas No Mienten? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.93.211.92 (talk) 11:47, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure it's "Las Caderas No Mienten (Será Será)"--LethalAmbition 18:56, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Nope, spanish version for that song is called "Será, será (las caderas no mienten)" even the phrase "las caderas no mienten" is only a literal translation of "hips don't lie" and that phrase does not appear on the spanish version. Soda-POP 08:09, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Meaning of name
Arabic شاكرة means literally "woman who gives thanks" in Arabic, not really "graceful" (more like "grateful"), according to standard dictionaries... AnonMoos 08:42, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Dancing Section Citation
The article says a citation is needed for: "She has had several belly dance choreographers, including award-winning Bellydance Superstar Bozenka."

Bozenka's biography page states "Bozenka has choreographed for Latin pop star Shakira..." here: http://www.bozenka.biz/bio.html 20:03, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Reath
WTF is that? Someone is putting "this" on the complete name of Shakira. Soda-POP 17:04, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

At the age of eight, after an older brother was killed in a motorcycle accident (?), Shakira became inspired to write her first song, which is entitled "Your Dark Glasses" and documents her father's grief. Soda-POP 17:06, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes... that`s true...

Number One singles
I may be rehashing old territory, but I agree with the "Neutrality" tag against the #1s section section. Every other article about another artist (well, where people have put in some chart effort) has a simple list of all singles released by the artist, and then their chart position in a sample of the countries of release. This does not conform to what might be considered something of a standard format. Instead, this distorts Shakira's success, (a) exaggerating by showing only the #1 singles ("Oh, isn't she just so successful") but also (b) in reverse by not showing that she has released many, many more singles that, while not as successful (a top 10 single isn't worthy these days?!) demonstrate her enormous popularity to sustain such wide sales. I recommend this be replaced by a regular list of all singles to more accurately report the facts. 220.238.117.68 06:35, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
 * WHOEVER ADDED THE #1 SECTION AGAIN, SHOULD READ THIS!

Why people don't realize that it's way better to have a Top-ten singles section than a number-one section... I completly agree with this point of view, #1 section distorts Shakira's success!

I agree, but Shakira has realised a lot of singles in her career, so I think it would be better to make a section with her Top 10 singles.--McMare&#39;s 23:01, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Number Of Grammys
Could someone please change where it says that shakira is a 2 time winning grammy award winning singer please? F.Y.I who ever was stupid to not update that but she is a 10 time grammy winner now.

Nope. She's a two time Grammy winer and a 7 time Latin Grammy winer (because the Grammy for "Best Engineered Album" goes to her engineers, not to her. The Academy official webpage confirms that this award doesn‘t belong to Shakira). So she would have 9 Grammy. Just look for the information here and you’ll see that I’m right. [] []

Shakira has no relation with Jews!!
As usual, many people in wikipedia add word "jew" and try to make connection between non-jewish famus people to the jews. "She has stated to have grown among Lebanese, Jewish and Italian communities" is totally wrong and she said in Dubai last month "Im proud to be Colombian from Arab roots" thats it. no jews and other nonsense. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Batexyawns (talk • contribs) 19:36, 25 April 2007 (UTC).


 * You are clearly an idiot. Arabs are not only a racially heterogeneous group, but a religiously diverse one as well. You can be an Arab and still not adhere to Islam, but rather, anyone of the other monotheistic faiths. So Shakira could evidently be a Jew, though it would be quite questionable considering her country of origin (there never really was a significant Jewish population in Lebanon, though neighboring Syria was a different story). She's most likely Christian.


 * I can see that you are hundred percent idiot. Did I say shakira is a Muslim?! she is Colombian and her root are Christian Lebanese NOT Jew and she has NO RELATION WITH ANY JEWS. Please open your eyes again and read clearly!! AND Lebanese people are Semitic people similar to the Arabian peninsula people and there root came from there. I think it will be stupid if you say that Lebanese are Berber and Im sure that you are too smart to make connection between Lebanese and Berber because I saw so many smart people similar to you!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Batexyawns (talk • contribs) 03:18, 27 April 2007 (UTC).


 * Okay??? How the hell did this go from a discussion about Arab-Jewish relations, to something totally unrelated (Berbers)?
 * Primo muchacho, North Africans have shit to do with Middle Easterners, both genetically and phenotypically (it's been quite proven), One can argue that even with the effective Arabization process of North Africa, the cultural practices still remain inherently different. Secondo, Berbers have even less to do with the said ethnic group (Arabs) concerning any linguistic, cultural, religious patterns (Berbers are generally very moderate practicioners of Islam, as opposed to those crazies out in the Middle East). Furthermore, Christians having no relations with Jews is a laughable statement at best, Christianity is directly derived from Judaism, much of the concept is the same (Honour thy father and mother, blah, blah, blah...). Learn to think before you talk, 'cuz clearly, the shit that spews out of your mouth stinks. Shakira already made a statement regarding her cultural exposure, and Jews were indeed people she grew around.     —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.194.104.5 (talk) 14:48, 27 April 2007 (UTC).


 * Please use your brain "if you have any?!" when you read my words. I replay to who said that Arab people are racially heterogeneous group and tried to add Lebanese (Pure Arab) to any other "not Arab" racial group and Berber people was an example. And saying that all Christian people have a genetically relation with Jews is totaly bullshit and nonsense. All Arab Muslims, Christians, atheist etc. are members of Semitic ethnic group which also include Jews, so it has nothing to do with any religion. And my subject was a discussion about "Shakira has no relation with Jews" so please if you have a prove that she has any kind of relation with Jews I can discuss you, but if any stupid who try to make Lebanese Arab have relation with Ashknazi or Mizrahi or Berber people I dont think it cost to discuss.

I am using my brain (unlike you), Berbers are not a racial category. They are an ethnic group much like Arabs. Both Berbers and Arabs (including Middle Eastern Arabs) are not singularly made up of the same stock, which is to say, they are not simply or even purely homogeneous in nature. There are black Arabs, much like white Arabs, and with a recent influx of southeastern Asian immigrants into the Middle East (particularly the Gulf region), there are now, Arabs with significant mongoloid admixture as well. Now regarding Christians and Jews, I never brought up a genetic relation (learn to read), but now that you've brought that up, it's time for a little biology lesson. Obviously not all Christians have a genetic connection with Jews, but we do know that the gene-pool of Jews have remained largely unchanged - since antiquity. Interestingly enough, genetic studies have also proven that Jews are very much akinned to Middle Easterners (at least moreso than to Europeans). But what has history also taught us, that Christianity originated in the Middle East, not only that, but that the first converts were not only Middle Easterners, but Jewish as well. So, to say that Jews and Middle Easterners are inherently different is an illogical fallacy. And to say that Christian Middle Easterners and Jews are inherently different is just plain retarded (much like the imbecilic Middle Eastern Muslim who wishes death over his next of kin - then again, Kane did kill Abel). So logically, Shakira not only shares religious principles with Jews, but genetic material to boot. Now quit bringing up Berbers, or any North Africans for that matter, we North Africans have nothing in common with you savages. Wallahi a sa7bi.


 * Yeah specially when the name Berber is connected to savages people. and if you try to make a connection between Middle Eastern Arabs and Berber people believe me its fake because North African are belong to Hamitic ethnolanguages group, and pure Arab (Middle Eastern) are belong to Semitic ethnolanguages group. Also, as we know that Hamitic people always served as slaves and most of them are road killers thats why some people use the word Berber to show how they are savages. In other word "Hamaj". mafeesh fayda 6ool 3omreko Hamaj!!


 * The word Berber is believed to be a corruption of the term Barbarian. But no self-respecting Berber ever calls himself a Berber anyway. Berbers call themselves what they've always called themselves, "Imazighen". And no one is trying to connect the Semetic branch to the Berber branch (you imbecile). And if the Hamites solely served as slaves, then explain why the Jews were licking the soot from the Egyptians' sandals. The Middle East is burning, don't forget that, we'll see what happens to Kuwait and all the other Gulf States, after peak oil. Watch Syriana much? —The preceding - comment was added by NAfr April 29, 2007.


 * After the peak of oil?! you can see Dubai, the economy is totaly free oil. Also, Kuwait is trying to be the same. Take a look in Madinat al-Hareer. We dont escape from our countries to western countries "specially US ;D" and give a bad expression about the Arabs while you people are Berber. Also, we can see the people in Morocco are slaves for the King. By the way, my discussion is about the relation between Shakira and Jews, what the hell is your problem with the subject? what you wrote is so silly.


 * North Africans rarely immigrate to North America. Most Arab immigrants to the U.S. are Levantine (like Shakira). North Africans immigrate to Europe much more often. Learn to differentiate between North America and Europe. The Moroccan people aren't slaves to a king, not all North Africans were and are Berbers, and Middle Easterners are the last people to talk to North Africans of effective methods of governance, pretty much all oil rich states are run by power hungry moulays, Saudi Arabia's royal family, Oman's sultanate, Kuwait's crowned princeship, heck, the list goes on. Now as far as North Africa's human devolepment, we're catching up pretty quick to middle easterners (and this is without oil). Just check Tunesia and Libya (Libya has garnered some money from oil revenues, but Tunesia has virtually no resources and has stepped up to the plate all on its own). In short, your conjecture about North Africa being western friendly is bullshit, at least when it's coming from someone who lives in a country virtually run by Brits and Americans and the Arab Emirates are like the western world's side-pocket in the east, so sandnigga' please. And what the hell do you mean by "bad expression about Arabs" (that makes no fucking sense)???  —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.194.104.5 (talk) 21:46, 30 April 2007 (UTC).

Wow okay. This is quickly making its way into some shaky territory. This page is about Shakira. Her father is a Lebanese Catholic. She grew up in a Jewish/Italian/Muslim community (http://hubpages.com/hub/Shakira), which if anything just exemplifies her culturally (NOT necessarily ethnically) diverse background (and Jews are defined as an ethnic group, so one can hypothetically be a Jew without being Jewish, no?). One IS allowed to grow up with people from other races, being Arab and having a connection to Judaism are certainly not mutually exclusive. Yes, its true that sometimes it seems as though there is a Jewish slant to things that maybe arent so Jewish, but to take apart any and all refrences to Jews is no more objective than being a part of America's Jewish lobby.

And can we lay off on the "idiot" stuff? Come on, this is just a trivia item.


 * I can write in a website that Shakira has relation with Melanesian people. Shakira is always proud thats she is Colombian and Arab. She DID NOT mention Jews, this was my point.

For God sake! Let's not start a racially motivated discussion over such a trivial item like the communities where Shakira has grown up. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Wikipedia is supposed to be free from racilly and religiously motivated discussions. Ain't it? '''So what if Shakira is Jewish or Arabian? Does that really matter? Will I like her songs less because such a trivial thing like her background? Of course I wont!''' But some people feel bad when an Arabic or Jewish artist is successful... And I found that very sad!

Ok guys calm down! Its funny how every time i seem to check the Shakira "discussion" wikipage there is an argument about her Arab roots. You get the pro-Arabs trying to change the Shakira information to a very Arab stance with as much mention of her half-Arabness as possible, all for the anti-Arab to delete this information and make up other mumbo-jumbo about supposed "macedonian" heritage! Where this comes from, God knows! The fact is she is Columbian of half arab lebanese descent. The person complaining about the "jew" comments, calm down because no where does it actualy say she is jewish, just that she grew up among jewish communities. However, i find it highly highly intriguing that the sentence where this is written has the word "jewish" highlighted and not italian or lebanese...perhaps trying to highlight the word jewish in the paragraph for some anti-arab agenda. Why would the person who typed this only highlight this word? Check this for yourself in the second paragraph of "Childhood and youth". Another point i find slightly concerning is found in the first paragraph of "Childhood and youth": Here when detailing her fathers information a description of "American-born Catholic of Lebanese descent". Now it is interesting how the word Catholic is used just before the word Lebanese to perhaps re-assure any reader that her father was not Muslim. This is particularly destorted because as any educated person knows, the Lebanese people are mixed Muslim and Catholic thus the addition of the word Catholic is not neccesary. Furthermore, it is perhaps an insult to the 40% of Lebanese the are indeed catholics who identify soley as Lebanese without such religious prefixes. After all "Lebanese" is a nationality, not a religious affiliation! I have actualy complained about this point before when the description "American-born of Catholic Lebanese descent" was first featured and clearly the editors at wikipedia listened to my point and realised how stupid it was. However, they failed to see that moving the Catholic word one place forward was just as stupid as the previous way. I suggest if someone wishes to talk about Shakira's fathers religion, it be done in a seperate sentence to his nationality or ethnicity! People need to calm down and stop stressing about her ethnicity. We should go by hard facts that we know of, as stated by Shakira herself in interviews, because as someone mentioned previously...any one can write anything in a webpage and use it as a "credible" citation (which is clearly what happened with the macedonian comment :| no offence to Macedonians- you have a nice country but Shakira being half macedonian? get a grip!) The reference to upbrining in a "jewish" community is irrelevant and worse still suggests to many reading the page (especialy arabs) that the jewish lobby are trying to write and justify anything.

Hope that was semi-helpful! Kibris123 at 28th April 21:54


 * It was more than helpful. and my view is as you said "the jewish lobby are trying to write and justify anything". many thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Batexyawns (talk • contribs) 03:15, 29 April 2007 (UTC).


 * You people are making a huge mistake. Shakira isn't even half Arab. Lebanese Christians are decended from Ancient Phoenicians and Syrians. Arabs come from Arabia. The muslims in Lebanon might have some Arab blood but the Christians certainly do not since a muslim would be stoned to death if they turned to chritianity in ancient times. In fact. A lebanese Christian is much more European than Arab since Europe was named after EUROPA, a Phoenician princess. They only speak the language and have had to take arabic names. they are ethnically and culturally NOT ARab. Please study before you group people as Arab because Lebanese christians have totally different values and ethnic backgroud from arabs.

Vocal ability
Does anyone knows what is the vocal range of Shakira? What is the highest-registred note of her? And about the lowest? It would have been good if we could add this to her article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rodrigogomespaixao (talk • contribs) 01:29, 28 April 2007 (UTC).

yeah maybe since most artist pagez dont me + ma sis luv us sum Pretty Ricky!  (wat waz dat?) ''' 20:55, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

I dont know her range, but the lowest note i've heard she sing is a low D off a middle C, and a high G off an octave above middle C BTW, i think this part is in a FORMAL Tone, what is wrong?

Catsmartie 12:48, 5 May 2007 (UTC)CatsmartieCatsmartie 12:48, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Quotes section
I've removed the Quotes section...again. One quote is not plural, and the section doesn't belong there anyway. If you want a list of quotes, go to Wikiquote. ShadowHalo 20:50, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

named after her grandmother?
if you follow the link that is given as the source of this information, you find nothing related to shakira. i've never heard anywhere else that she would be named after her grandmother, either.

i suggest to remove this part! (I can't because i don't have an account)

217.238.250.96 16:04, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Her complete name is Shakira Isabel Mebarak Ripoll and her grandmother's name was Isabel. So she's named after her grandmother.

just make one its very eazy..=] me + ma sis luv us sum Pretty Ricky!  (wat waz dat?) ''' 00:40, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

okay, then her grandmithers' name was/is(?) isabel. but the text implies that her name would be shakira... 132.199.101.84 09:16, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

In the documental of Live & Off The Record, she says that her complete name is Shakira Isabel Mebarak Ripoll.

Macedonian descent?
Did it occur to who ever added the false claim of macedonian heritage that the citation used (Fox News) sought the information of Shakira's background from Wikipedia after the macedonian claim had already been put up (the macedonian claim was there a few months ago but later removed). Someone please remove this claim because it is un-true and even if it was true, it is taken from a source which used wikipedia as the source - if that makes sense? Her father is of Lebanese heritage only and Shakira has always affirmed this and it is the general media consensus that this is the fact. Kibris123 at 24th April 20:04 from London
 * This is correct. Please refer to the discussion below on sources about this matter.  J o s h  15:45, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Personal Life
Shakira is not going to marry. She has denied that herself in Mexico []

Shakira is not Macedonian
Shakira was asked the question. ''"Zivkica Gurcinovska, as she anounced, asked her a provocative question, "Do you have Macedonian ancestry?" because of famous IMDB portal, www.imdb.com states that she is of Columbian, Lebanese and Macedonian origin.

''"Shakira answered my question laughing saying that she is the grand, grand, grand, grand child of Alexander the Great Macedonian.....adding that the information on IMDB is sadly not true, but she said she really would love to have Macedonian origins," said Zivkica who will air her interview with Shakira in her new show "No Limits" on Sitel television."

http://macedoniadaily.blogspot.com/2007/02/shakira-wants-to-be-macedonian_03.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Makedonia (talk • contribs)
 * This seems like a pretty decent source, and I've taken the Macedonian mention out of the biography bit. If you disagree, just leave a comment here or on my talk page. I'm not one for editing wars.  J o s h  11:04, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Shakira is not Macedonian and has nothing to do with Macedonia. Although i really would want her to be, she just isn't, so there is no need to mention that she has Macedonian background. As for the source it's decent. There was allready a link on here at the talk page but i changed it with a link which refers right to the article. The other one, you had to scroll to find the article.Makedonia 14:48, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I think this problem has been pretty much resolved now. :~)  J o s h  15:44, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi its Kibris 123 on June 22nd 2007: Im glad the Macedonian issue is sorted...However...i am dismayed to see something of great concern in the background section of the page. It is something i have had ammended a few times before yet it seems to have changed back. The term Lebanese-Catholic is nonsense, irrelevant and misleading at the least. Lebanese is a nationality. Catholic is a religion. It has no mention of Her mothers faith after her ethnicity. Please someone remove the Catholic label as Lebanese in itself is going to suggest the person is either Catholic or Muslim anyway. A more suited use would be "American Born Catholic of Lebanese descent". Not that religious affiliation is at all relevent anyway. I hope the change will be made asap. Not

The Pies Descalzos Foundation
The article currently says that her foundation was founded in 2001 (no citation). However, the official website of the foundation (http://www.fundacionpiesdescalzos.com) says 1995 (and for what it's worth, that's what I remember, too). As this article is semi-protected, I can edit it so I kindly ask somebody else to do so. Abradecol 20:13, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Signature song?
Does anyone know if any Shakira song has been establish as a signature song? She has so many well-known song as "Estoy Aquí", "Inevitable", "Ciega, Sordomuda", "Whenever, Wherever", "La Tortura" and/or "Hips Don't Lie" that it's difficult to catalogue one of those as a signature song.McMare&#39;s 23:59, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Not considered as official albums in Shakira's discography
What does the above sentence mean? 86.12.249.63 08:48, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Shakira's Cousin (Isa Mebarak) has Started a Music Career
Shakira's cousin (Isa Mebarak) has also launched a music career. So, I have taken the liberty of creating a page. Should we include a reference to this in the Shakira page? Not home 23:59, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Influences
Don't you think that is have to be the own Shakira the one that says which artists influenced in her albums and career, and not a newspaper? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)

Catalan ancestry
In this video Shakira says that she has "Catalan blood" as her name is Ripoll (her mother's name). So I think it is fair to say that her mother is Catalan-Italian. ... disco spinster   talk  17:24, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * First of all sorry for my English. Exactly, she says she has catalan blood (Maybe her great-grandparents were from Barcelona), but that doesn't mean necessarily her mother is from catalonia — I have the surname McMurray because of a great-grandmother from Ireland, but my parents are both spanish. But if you need more evidences, Torrado (Her mother' second surname) is from castilian origin (Miranda de Ebro), just another historical region from Spain. Why do you choose the catalan ancestry over the castilian? Maybe you have a hiden Shakira family tree, if so, please let me know and I will stop this subject just now. To summarize, if in doubt, and since wikipedia is not a primary source of info, I suggest we choose the spanish ancestry. .81.44.219.200 00:38, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I have just find this quote on wikiquotes:
 * I am a blend of several cultures. Through my veins runs Spanish, Lebanese and Italian blood. All of this heritage is a strong influence on the character of my music.
 * Her words, not mine. 81.44.219.200 01:28, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

She admits she has Catalan blood and her mother's last name (Ripoll) could not be more Catalan (there's even a city with that name in Catalonia). Also note that ethnicity and descent is not the same as place of origin. That means that Shakira can have Catalan descent (as proven by her own words and her mother's last name), but not "be from Catalonia". We have to distinguish between descent and nationality. There's a lot of Catalan people who don't live (or never have for that matter) in Catalonia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Albrock (talk • contribs) 20:40, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
 * But she admits too she has spanish blood (See quotes), and the surname Torrado sais unequivocally she is from Castilla too. Seriously, do you need more references? Are you really sure she has only Catalan ancestry and not from other places in Spain? That wouldn't be possible because of her surname.81.44.219.200 21:19, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

What is unquestionable is that Shakira's mother is from Catalan descent. Now, if you insist that Torrado proves a Castillian connection or whatever, feel free to add that, but you cannot ignore the fact that Shakira has Catalan blood (as she herself has publicly admitted - see the video provided by discospinster). So I would have to ask you to stop deleting that proven piece of information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Albrock (talk • contribs) 17:34, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Of course, she has catalan blood, as well as catillian blood. So you are the one who is ignoring the fact that Shakira has Castillian blood. Thus, with her catalan ancestry, we can assume she has spanish ancestry. Maybe you don't know both Castillia and Catalonia belongs to Spain. And I tell you again, Shakira said "Through my veins runs Spanish, Lebanese and Italian blood". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.44.219.200 (talk) 19:12, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Well that's where you're wrong my friend. Having Catalan blood does not imply that you're from Spain, at all. The Catalan people live in other countries aside from Spain, including, but not limited to, Andorra, France and Italy. You have to bare in mind that being Catalan does not necessarily mean you are an inhabitant of the Spanish region of Catalonia. It means you are part of the Catalan people ethnic/cultural group. Thus, eliminating "Catalan ancestry" and substintuing it for "Spanish ancestry" just because most Catalans live in Spain is flawed. If you want to add that Shakira has Castillian/Spanish ancestry that's fine (as long as you have proof), but do not ignore Shakira's Catalan blood. Ripoll is a Catalan name that dates far before Spain as we know it was a country. Check your history, cowboy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Albrock (talk • contribs) 21:32, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Please, tell me what part of Though my veins runs Spanish [...] blood didn't you understand. These are facts:
 * She said she has Spanish blood
 * She said she has Catalan blood — Maybe she refers to Catalonia, maybe to the ethnic/cultural group, we don't know.
 * Ripoll is a surname from Girona, Catalonia (Currently Spain)
 * Torrado is a surname from Burgos, Castile (Currently Spain)
 * Well, what you suggest is we must ignore the castilian ancestry and to make reference only to her ancestry from Catalonia. Why? What I want is a well-balanced solution. What you are doing is like if I put "Castilian people" instead of "Spanish people". Does she only have castilian ancestry in Spain? No. By the way, Torrado is a castilian surname that dates far before Spain as we know it was a country, so what? 83.43.17.42 02:22, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

I've never suggested ignoring Spanish/Castillian ancestry, I'm just saying that you cannot claim that Shakira's Catalan blood is Spanish blood just because nowadays most Catalans live in a region in Spain. Check out Wikipedia's article on Catalan people and you'll see how they are not limited to a certain region. Nobody would claim that a Scottish guy is from "British descent" just because Scotland is now part of the United Kingdom. It's ludicrous. Now, if you insist in your theory that Shakira's mother has roots in Castille (something that Shakira has never publically stated) and you can prove it, that's fine. You can add that Shakira's mother is from Castillian descent, although that would sound weird since all people from Castille are Spanish. That's not the case with Catalan people (or Basques for that matter). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Albrock (talk • contribs) 15:30, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Since she said she has spanish blood and one of her surnames is from Castile all your discourse is wrong. And please, stop boring me with your catalanist discourse (Btw, you are wrong: There are not only catalan people in the autonomus community of Catalunya in Spain. Most people of País Valencà, Illes Balears and many people from Murcia and Aragó are catalans too). Check you geography, cowboy ;) P.S. I'm castilian, with many family and friends living in areas where people talk in català, I have spent many time in Bcn or Alacant. Despite you may have catalan ancestry, surely I know better than you their culture. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.45.49.198 (talk) 21:19, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Huh, interesting how you were unable to refute my argument. "Since she said she has spanish blood and one of her surnames is from Castile all your discourse is wrong"... What? How? And I never said Catalans only live in Catalonia, I said most of them do, at least a majority anyhow. What you ignore is that there are Catalans in Andorra, France, and even Italy. That means that identifying Catalan ancestry with Spanish ancestry is flawed. And I don't care if you've lived in Barcelona, your logic is still wrong, vaquero ;) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Albrock (talk • contribs) 21:42, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
 * :S my best friend is now living in Andorra, I know it to. If you were spanish you would know everybody here knows that Andorra, a region of southern France and a town in Cerdeña has catalan culture. What do you say about Shakira's quote? What about the origin of her surname Torrado? Please answer those questions and stop with catalanism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.45.49.198 (talk) 22:18, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Well then, what the hell are you arguing about? You just admitted that Catalan culture extends beyond the political borders of Spain and therefore saying that Shakira is from Spanish descent because she has Catalan ancestry is ridiculous. How about Catalan-Spanish or Catalan-Castillian descent. Do those work for you? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Albrock (talk • contribs) 10:38, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Please, answer my questions. I'm still waiting for your reply.83.45.49.198 13:19, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

What questions? What the hell are you talking about? Look buddy, by your own admission Catalans extend well beyond Spanish borders, so equaling Catalan descent with Spanish descent is not accurate. What do I think about Shakira's "spanish blood" quote, well I think that proves that she's got some Spanish/Castillian descent too, so kudos for that. Feel free to add it, but don't ignore her Catalan heritage. Jeesh, it's not that complicated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Albrock (talk • contribs) 13:43, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, so you admit she has castilian heritage :) And since her catalan heritage is from Girona, Cataluña (Spain), and both Cataluña and Castile are part of Spain, we can conclude she has Spanish ancestry (Don't worry about the catalanism. The catalan culture is implicit in the Spanish country, we're only a set of cultures). So, if you drop once again the spanish ancestry, get in mind you have assumed she has castilian blood and you must be consistent with your words; Don't ignore it, and find your own solution. Mine is the usage of "spanish people" (Catalans from cataluña and castilians are spanish).83.45.49.198 14:48, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Look I still don't agree but I'm gonna drop it, you're so stubborn in defending that she's got Spanish descent even though the Catalan people are also from different places, that I'm gonna be the big man and let you win this one. Frankly, I've got other things to worry about. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Albrock (talk • contribs) 18:13, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Castillian ancestry has not been proven, Catalan has. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.3.150.75 (talk) 09:46, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It has been proven she has a Catalan surname, Ripoll. But we do not need Shakira's quotes to know that. We know its a surname from Girona (Spain). In the same way we don't need Shakira's quotes to know Torrado is a castilian surname, so her castilian surname is as well proven.88.16.195.81 14:23, 31 October 2007 (UTC)