Talk:Shot put

Ungrammatical uses
There was a note after "In the English language it is common to use the term "shot put" to refer to both the shot itself and to the throwing motion." that said that both uses were ungrammatical, but didn't explain why. For the noun, "shot put" comes up in dictionary.com with that meaning, and I'm not sure why the verb use is ungrammatical. There wasn't any explanation other that just that statement, so I pulled the line. 24.59.112.218 00:12, 11 March 2007 (UTC)


 * As an experienced thrower myself, I'd say that the dictionary you referenced is either incorrect or has modified the meaning to match the use of the words. Technically the "shot" references the weight, and the "put" is the verb, meaning what is done to the shot to get the name of the event to be the "shot put".  It is very similar to "discus throw".--Paul McDonald (talk) 11:24, 28 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I've just removed that sentence as Wikipedia is not a dictionary. Wiktionary is the place for discussion of (mis)usage of words. Qwfp (talk) 19:29, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Rules
''Rules
 * The athlete must rest the shot close to the neck and keep it tight to the neck while throwing.
 * At the end of the throw, the thrower must push the throwing arm straight from the neck, pushing the ball off the fingertips. (If the thrower does not push the ball out and throws it like a baseball, the thrower may incur a shoulder or neck injury.) ''

Are these really rules? Or are they just technical points which are accepted as a given? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thatlot!! (talk • contribs) 20:48, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm quite sure the first rule is a rule. A number of places on the web corroborate it; it is the rule that make this event a "put" and not a "throw".  I can't find the second rule anywhere though, but I can't seem to quickly find anything that looks like a definitive rulebook for shot put.  This article definitely needs some citations.  I'll tag it to that effect. Cheers, Doctormatt 23:02, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Yep, those are rules. Failure to complete the put in the manenr described can be ruled as a foul or a scratch and the put will not be measured.  Don't have a reference for it, other than my own experience.  I read it in the rules once, but don't have a rule book handy.--Paul McDonald (talk) 11:25, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Its true! ---122.57.99.153 (talk) 03:22, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Basically the shot put must leave the neck when thrown, it cannot leave the neck before being thrown. So it must be 'put' from the neck.this is in the official rulebook —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.82.163.215 (talk) 15:37, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

From USA Track and Field 2009 Rules of Competition, Article IV, Section 3, Rule 188: 2. The shot shall be put from the shoulder with one hand only. At the time the competitor takes a stance in the ring to commence a put, the shot shall touch or be in close proximity to the neck or chin, and the hand shall not be dropped below this position during the act of putting. The shot must not at any time be brought behind the line of the shoulders. Cartwheeling techniques are not permitted.

This comment above is the exact wording of the IAAF (the ones who make the rules) Please look carefully at the first sentence. "The shot shall be put from the shoulder" (note here that it does not say that it must be thrown from the neck as many above have erroneously said.) Then the rules get more specific: "At the time the competitor takes a stance in the ring to commence a put" (This means that when the athlete gets into the starting position before his very first movement) at that time: " the shot shall touch or be in close proximity to the neck or chin". (This is where the idea about throwing from the neck comes from but this is NOT what the rule says. To review this: The shot must be close to the neck before the athlete starts any movement to throw. Then the cruncher: "and the hand shall not be dropped below this position during the act of putting" (This means that the hand must not drop below the plane of the shoulder but it can be moved up (to throw) or moved slightly along the shoulder (as in a lateral movement) in order to throw from the shoulder. The rule clearly says "drop" and also forbids to bring the shot "behind" the plane of the shoulder but slight lateral movement on the shoulder allows for the shot to be thrown from the shoulder as the very first sentence of this rule explains. Ninesided (talk) 16:03, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

Last two lines taken together prevent a "throw" rather than a "put" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.146.1.10 (talk) 20:30, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

The "rules/Legal throws" section states that a competitor must leave from the rear of the circle. Only three lines later, it is stated that it is NOT a rule that a competitor must leave from the rear of the circle. The two SEEM to create a contradiction in the article. Can someone who actually knows set the article right? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.79.148.131 (talk) 04:11, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Why does 'shot putt' disambiguate to this page?
Since 'Shot Putt' is the correct term and 'Shot Put' is a spelling mistake?Vault-emort (talk) 18:16, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't care about the disambig... likely for spelling. But a "putt" is what you do to a golf ball on the green.--Paul McDonald (talk) 11:26, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

I expect the word origins were the same. Despite revisionist edits here, traditional usage (at least in the UK) was "shot putt" – and "shot put" was either a mistake or a neologism. But I believe the change in usage (at least in the US) dates back many years, and now "shot putt" is apparently regarded as odd. However, back in the 40s, when my father was a collegiate exponent of the shot putt, the odd looks went to the other spelling. Spinality (talk) 21:19, 28 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Checking the OED, it would appear that "shot putt" was probably always an error, albeit perhaps a common or whimsical one at Oxbridge in the 1940s-50s. So I stand corrected (by myself...again). Spinality (talk) 04:46, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

what defines a "put" (legal) from a "throw" (illegal) in bio-mechanical terms ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.181.103.192 (talk) 06:07, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Needs A Citation!?
"(If the thrower does not push the ball out and throws it like a baseball, the thrower may cause a shoulder or neck injury.)" Uh why the hell does that need a citation? That's like saying "if you stub your toe, it may hurt" needs a citation, or "if you're killed, you're dead" needs a citation. If you actually do shot put events it's just common knowledge. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.117.58.167 (talk) 15:10, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Judges
How do the judges who run to measure the length of the throw avoid getting hit by the shot put? Badagnani (talk) 05:36, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
 * They probably just look at the ball as it's coming. - Oreo Priest  talk 14:47, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Safety is the #1 consideration when running any of the throwing events. Neither officials or athletes should ever have their backs to the throwing circle. Spectators must be kept away from the throwing area. After a throw, the implements are never thrown back, but carried or rolled. In practice, the shot put is arguably the least hazardous of the throwing events to mark out in the field. It does not drift laterally with the wind like a javelin, it does not have an orbiting handle like a hammer or weight, and it does not skip erratically on uneven ground like a discus. Furthermore, since a shot travels considerably less distance than a javelin, discus or hammer, there is far less territory for the officials to cover when marking the landing spot. As the previous post said, simply watch it as it's flying downrange. - ikstrums, 7 March 2011

Well I wanted a composition of 200 words based on shot put and you gave me something else Princess Archer (talk) 11:49, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

Origin
What is the origin and history of this? Badagnani (talk) 06:40, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * This question still needs answering; it's a distinct flaw in the article. Also: where do the shots come from? DavidOaks (talk) 21:44, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

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Article Cleanup
I have placed cleanup banners on the article due to a lack of clarity. Without explaining what shot put is, the article immediately goes into explaining record holders.

mattcontinental (talk) 17:02, 27 September 2009 (UTC)


 * The edit right before yours was vandalism and removed a lot of content. I restored the previous version. --Omarcheeseboro (talk) 23:40, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Shot Put
This sport is very interesting for me. but i think this is good for health if often practise. at the same this port is also very tired.need to supply food and energe on and on. then you can stronger. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.128.112.143 (talk) 03:59, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Yep, exactly pew pew pew 16:10, 17 February 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alanlemagne (talk • contribs)

Systemic bias
For an article on such an international topic, this is stunningly US centric, listing USATF, NCAA, and US high school variations to rules (wouldn't it seem a little silly if I included our local high school rules?). At this stage, as part of a major copyedit I'm stripping out the US high school stuff, but am tending towards the opinion that we should only include the IAAF stuff. Perhaps if someone wants all the US variations, they need to make a Shot put in the USA article. --jjron (talk) 09:43, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Shot put spin technique, origin
Not only that the spin technique wasn't invented by Viktor Alexeyev, the Soviets themselves noted that the technique comes from Germany (a sequence or a "kinogram" of the shot put spin was published in 1966). The first results came from Dave Magard (USA) with the result of 19.6m, using the spin technique. This comes from a well known Soviet athletics manual, "УЧЕБНИК ТРЕНЕРА ПО ЛЕГКОИ АТЛЕТИКЕ" (1974) edited by L.S Homenkov. Alexeyev may have perfected it, but he is not the inventor and neither are Americans.

Someone should add this into the article, with the reference to "УЧЕБНИК ТРЕНЕРА ПО ЛЕГКОИ АТЛЕТИКЕ, 1974, Fizkultura i Sport, Moscow" if I don't find the title of the book where the original picture sequence of the spin was first published. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.223.199.242 (talk) 23:37, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

Shot put weight and size of the ball
Shouldn't the weights be specified in lb and converted to kg? 16.01 lb is obviously bogus! It should be 16 lb exactly, and this value converted to kg, not the other way round. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.120.221.5 (talk) 12:52, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
 * It is only obviously bogus if you take an America-centric view of everything where, under extreme views of this nature, the earth revolves, not around the sun, as science suggests, but rather around some imaginary point in Ohio. The international standard for weights and measures is the metric system, the weight provided in the article is calculated to the third decimal place, and when converted from metric to U.S. "Imperial" measure this is an accurate conversion correctly represented to the second decimal place as 16.01 pounds. If the sport had been invented in US or UK then a standard weight originally measured as pounds or stones might be expected, but there is no information provided as yet telling us that the Americans or Brits invented this sport, or defined its modern state. I might support, however, the theory that the Scots or Romans were involved in the origin of the sport, and this would support your theory that a standard size for the object thrown might have been sixteen libra. Garth of the Forest (talk) 01:47, 23 November 2012 (UTC)


 * It would be helpful if someone could provide the size (diameter) of the ball that is used. For someone like me, who knows nothing about the sport and is getting their first overview here on Wikipedia, that would be helpful.
 * I think there should be somewhere in the article that actually gives the weights uses by different classes, for example, by age and by gender. Even if there are multiple standards in different parts of the world, it would be helpful to have a table with as many as practical/possible.  As it currently stands, the article doesn't even give an idea of what a shot put weighs at all.  I have never competed in shot put, so I don't know what to put, or else I would add to the article.  For example, I think the article would be greatly improved if it gave the weights of the shots used in mens and womens competition at the Olympics.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.57.170.50 (talk) 23:04, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
 * The standard mass of the senior shots are 16 lb for men and 4kg for women. The size of implements varies, this is a choice made by the athlete, unlike the other throwing implements in which aerodynamics is important and there is might tighter regulation. Indoor shots are always larger due to their rubber exterior.Billiehenton (talk) 16:29, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

bias/irrelevance?
Please note this sentence:

"Tomasz Majewski notes that although most athletes use the spin,[6] he and some other top shot putters (who also don't use banned substances, like Randy Barnes who received a life ban) achieved success using this classic method (for example he become first to defend the Olympic title in 56 years)."

It seems to have an odd interjection that has nothing to do with the content of that section.

The following sentence:

"The spin method is also worse in bad weather conditions (e.g. wind, rain, cold)."

This could use some citation or more explanation. Really, the whole article is light on citations/references. I'm no expert on the shot put, so I'm in no position to do it myself, but I'd be curious to see if others agree. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.79.106.183 (talk) 11:28, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Masters merge proposal
A number of new table centric article stubs created that are either A1 speedy or merge material if content has context relative to "Shot put." This article seems to be more appropriate.
 * Masters M35 shot put world record progression
 * Masters M40 shot put world record progression
 * Masters M45 shot put world record progression
 * Masters M50 shot put world record progression
 * Masters M55 shot put world record progression
 * Masters M65 shot put world record progression
 * Masters M75 shot put world record progression
 * Masters M85 shot put world record progression

--DHeyward (talk) 05:11, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Alternatively, all the above stub tables could be merged to a new article Masters athletics shot put and a section in Masters athletics. Otherwise, without context, the above articles may be borderline A1 speedy candidates. --DHeyward (talk) 05:59, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Better discussion is Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Athletics. It's probably best as Masters athletics sub-articles. --DHeyward (talk) 04:42, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
 * The discussion on the now-archived page is at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Athletics/Archive 6. Given that discussion, and using Masters shot put seems reasonable, avoiding unnecessary word in Masters athletics shot put. Klbrain (talk) 18:54, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

✅ Klbrain (talk) 09:47, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

Top lists in glide and slide
I was thinking that it would be great to have top5/top10 (depending on data available) lists in each of different techniques (glide, slide) to compare techniques. I am aware that there are multiple variables that affect the final result but this would be interesting because there is no other athletics discipline that has that different techniques (for example in javelin, in the final step of the throw you can fall down or stay standing but is not all that different as a complete throwing technique) that are equal in usage and in results. 213.149.62.148 (talk) 16:38, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I see somebody added technique to men list but not to women list. Is it possible that all women results are achieved with glide because I found out that  Until 2009, a woman has never made an Olympic final (top 8) using spin, so consequentially there has never been an Olympic medalist for the women using the spin technique.  which would imply that. What is then the best women spin result? 213.149.61.247 (talk) 19:14, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

Fixing a Small Act of Trolling
It appears that someone has added a meme to the main paragraph at the top. I couldn't find any evidence supporting the act of heaving the shot being referred to as "yeeting." I'm a casual reader, so I didn't feel comfortable removing the reference, but I thought it was important to let you know.

147.124.195.177 (talk) 17:41, 31 January 2019 (UTC) G.D. 12:39 PM EST. Jan 31, 2019.
 * looks like its been fixed as of now. EliteArcher88 (talk) 10:58, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Shot put
Basically shot put is an track and field sports Princess Archer (talk) 11:51, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

Inaccuracies in top 25 attempt table
official results show crouser has two 22.98m throws which are not included in the table https://worldathletics.org/results/world-athletics-championships/2023/world-athletics-championships-budapest-2023-7138987/men/shot-put/final/result

this leads me to fear there are other inaccuracies or missing results in the top 25 table MrMenelaos (talk) 22:39, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Some time ago an author made the decision not to include ancillary throws (sub marks of a series) in the list. This somewhat distorts the list of furthest throws.Montell 74 (talk) 08:58, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Ah that explains a lot. Thank you. MrMenelaos (talk) 13:58, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * If that is the case a note explaining that is a must. I raised that question for high jump (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:High_jump#All-time_list_clarification_needed). A note in the best 25 section that states which of the two (all throws or best throw per competition is considered for the table) is the case, is a must for all multiple attempts disciplines (pole vault, discuss, hammer and javelin throw, shot put, long jump, triple jump, high jump). As of now those tables spread misinformation. 37.205.97.243 (talk) 21:43, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Didnt Ryan Crouser throw 23.38 indoors in February 2023? Pelmeen10 (talk) 00:12, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
 * See note under indoor table.Montell 74 (talk) 11:35, 19 July 2024 (UTC)