Talk:Shuri (Marvel Cinematic Universe)

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Reviewer Note[edit]

~~I will go ahead and accept this one.~~ There already is an article at Shuri (character). Robert McClenon (talk) 00:23, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Robert McClenon:, you may want to see articles at Category:Marvel Cinematic Universe characters. These are separate articles about film versions of characters with independent notability from the original character supported by separate sourcing and reception, warranting separate articles per WP:GNG. IronManCap (talk) 00:32, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A classic example is Rapunzel (Tangled), a spinoff of Rapunzel. IronManCap (talk) 00:33, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

We also have Peter Parker (Marvel Cinematic Universe), Peter Parker (The Amazing Spider-Man film series) and Peter Parker (Sam Raimi film series), all spin-offs of the main Spider-Man article with independent established notability. Sorry if that wasn't clear before. IronManCap (talk) 00:37, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Robert McClenon:Do you have reasons to justify this is a content fork? Which I assume is your argument. Yes this is a spun-off adapted character of the comic. But like many other examples that IronManCap noted that some adapted articles can qualify in mainspace if notability is proven. Don’t leave the the user hanging with your reason I hope. Jhenderson⁷⁷⁷ 01:03, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

User:Jhenderson777 - I don't understand. I declined the draft because I didn't want to create a content fork, and tagged for a merge. Please do not misread what I tried to do. Robert McClenon (talk) 03:20, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Robert McClenon: The question is, what makes this draft different from Tony Stark (Marvel Cinematic Universe), Steve Rogers (Marvel Cinematic Universe), or Peter Parker (Marvel Cinematic Universe), just to name a few. Those are articles about the film version of a comic book character, just as this one is. The rationale you gave is insufficient to explain the decline of this draft. —El Millo (talk) 03:35, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

User:Facu-el Millo I really don't understand. I am first being asked why I was creating a content fork, and am now being told that the issue is that I didn't create a content fork? Robert McClenon (talk) 03:47, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It appears that I may have discovered an area that reviewers should stay clear of, because reviewers will get dumped on no matter what they do. Robert McClenon (talk) 03:47, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Robert McClenon: Have you looked at the articles we've linked as examples here? Tony Stark (Marvel Cinematic Universe) is as much a content fork of Iron Man as this draft is a content fork of Shuri (character), but that article and many, many more were moved to mainspace without any problems. Everyarticle in the Category:Marvel Cinematic Universe characters is in the same condition as this draft. We're asking for a clear rationale that explains the difference between all those other cases and this one, and why those ones are acceptable content forks and this one wouldn't be. Or perhaps you think that none of those should've been moved to mainspace? —El Millo (talk) 03:52, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Robert McClenon:. Bro you were not understanding me. The content fork is what I assume your basis is. You just agreed to that. Sorry I was not clear the first time. I can understand you think that’s it is a content fork but I respectfully disagree. Unless (like the other editors pointed out) the other articles are too. Jhenderson⁷⁷⁷ 10:52, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

How is this draft a fork? The only thing that comes to the comics here is "#Concept and creation," and that's what the section clearly means. Otherwise, majority of the draft is not a fork and stands on reliable and independent sources that make articles like Tony Stark (Marvel Cinematic Universe) and Bruce Banner (Marvel Cinematic Universe) to Iron Man and Hulk. ChannelSpider (talk) 15:09, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

At this point I think we should leave Robert McClenon alone about this. Obviously he is not interested in revisiting the topic, and he is not wrong, anyway, on the point that regular AFC reviewers probably should not be handling these articles. BD2412 T 15:26, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Does anyone think this article is ready for mainspace other than me, Jhenderson777 and IronManCap? ChannelSpider (talk) 15:54, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think this is just a WP:GOODFAITH misunderstanding on Robert McClenon's part, he has done the same thing on a draft for Hope van Dyne previously. As a sidenote, I wonder if we should have an 'about' hatnote on each article explaining that it's about the film character, linking to the comics character in 'for'. Otherwise, I think it's probably best to generate community consensus for drafts rather than submitting at WP:AFC from now on to prevent further confusion. Those issues aside, I think we have yet to establish full consensus on whether this should be mainspace, so repinging @Facu-el Millo, BD2412, and Favre1fan93: and others for more comprehensive discussion. IronManCap (talk) 16:14, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I continue to maintain a standard that film-adapted characters should not have a standalone article until they have been named in a project title, or are part of a team named in such a title and have appeared in four or more films. This character (as with Mantis) does not yet meet that standard. This is my personal standard, but each of these characters needs to be named in a title or appear in one more project. Who knows, maybe Shuri will pop up in Loki or Hawkeye. BD2412 T 23:11, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@BD2412: Generally that seems like a good rule of thumb, although Sif (Marvel Cinematic Universe) (already questionable; no reception section) seems very odd in mainspace then (only three appearances to date, and in supporting/minor roles). IronManCap (talk) 23:28, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, that's the worst example. We shouldn't compare any drafts with Sif's article for quality. That shouldn't be an article. —El Millo (talk) 23:40, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I definitely would not have put Sif in mainspace. BD2412 T 23:41, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah. Sif should probably stay in the draftspace for some time, maybe she could appear in Love and Thunder? ChannelSpider (talk) 00:04, 22 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think we all agree with Sif but this article has info no where else on mainspace. If we are not going to put in in mainspace. Same goes with Sif. We should land the info somewhere else. Jhenderson⁷⁷⁷ 23:46, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

We're not saying that it should never be on mainspace, we're saying not yet. Remember there's WP:NORUSH. —El Millo (talk) 23:53, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I am well aware of that. Lol I am just saying we should preserve the info somewhere else on mainspace though. Jhenderson⁷⁷⁷ 23:58, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The amount of information here couldn't be kept in its same width anywhere else I'm afraid, because it would constitute WP:UNDUEWEIGHT. It should be summarized. —El Millo (talk) 00:06, 22 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly. Summarizing would be good.Jhenderson⁷⁷⁷ 00:20, 22 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

On a sidenote, I have moved the Sif article to draftspace per the clear consensus here. It can be properly improved now before becoming an article in mainspace. IronManCap (talk) 01:23, 22 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]