Talk:Sin Cara

Discussion
Before embarking onto his prfessional carreer, Mistico was a very seasoned amateur wrestler winning various state titles in Texas as a highschool and collegeiate wrestler for Burges HighSchool in El Paso, TX. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.108.92.127 (talk) 06:17, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Jorge Arias is Incognito's real name
In his first tryout match with the WWE, Incognito wasn't wearing a mask, and was wrestling under his real name Jorge Arias. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.89.60.103 (talk) 04:33, 10 April 2010 (UTC) Adam Atherton used his real name for a few weeks before they named him Rudy Parker, WWE usually waits a few weeks before they give a wrestler a fake name. There is no basis, but most likely it is his REAL name. No source however, but I'm willing to bet, I guess that's not good enough tho. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.89.60.103 (talk) 17:12, 10 April 2010 (UTC) This site http://www.onlineworldofwrestling.com/profiles/i/incognito.html says his real name is Jorge Arias too —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.89.60.103 (talk) 19:54, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
 * What is the basis for this claim? Just because he used a name in wrestling it does not mean it was necessarily his real name and since he's a masked wrestler there needs to be a reliable source to back up the claim that it's his real name and not just a ring name.  MPJ  -DK 06:17, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
 * It's speculative, so that's why it's not good enough.  MPJ  -DK 18:11, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Should the name be changed to Hunico?
Arias is wrestling with the WWE now, which is the biggest wrestling promotion in the world, as Hunico. He is more well known as Hunico than he had been previously as Incognito, therefore the page name should be changed. Tarison13 (talk) 22:03, 13 November 2011 (UTC)Tarison13

Finisher
I saw the Hunico vs. Ted Dibiase match, and Hunico finished Ted off with a strange submission/pin move. I don't know how you would describe this and if this would be considered a finisher move of Hunico. Please analyze and identify this move. Thank you.209.213.145.157 (talk) 03:19, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Change Name

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page moved. Vegaswikian (talk) 23:10, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Incognito (wrestler) → Hunico – I would like to see this article moved to Hunico per WP:COMMONNAME. I say this because I think it could be justly argued that he is better known internationally now for his time in WWE as Hunico now. Edge4life42 (talk) 20:07, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

What is Hunico's Finisher?
What is Hunico's finisher? If he has one, I don't think that it was put on his article correctly or at all. Thank you.209.213.155.16 (talk) 23:09, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Signature moves used by Arias under the names Hunico, Incognito and Sin Cara are located at Hunico (and are correctly cited). ŞůṜīΣĻ ¹98¹ Speak 04:09, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Let me rephrase that. What is Hunico's current finisher? Thank you.209.213.155.16 (talk) 21:05, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Scar on lower stomach.
Just wondering does anyone know or have a source for the real reason as to why he has a scar on his stomach rather than the kayfabe story? SRaemiA talk 21:01, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

His name and date of birth are wrong.
Real Name: Jose Jorge Arriaga

Dob: September 5 1977

Source:http://hunico.com/

AngelsPhoenix (talk) 02:09, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
 * You have good intentions yes but that source (a fansite) is just not credible unless it offers some shred of evidence which I have asked for on the site's chatbox. Starship.paint (talk) 06:43, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

Hunico to Sin Cara or Jorge Arias
With Luis Urive pretty much not coming back to WWE, should we consider changing the name of this article to Arias' real name or to Sin Cara since he is pretty much gonna be Sin Cara for the long haul? Jedi Striker (talk) 05:33, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I believe the same argument was made for Mistico to move to Sin Cara, look how that turned out. Too soon.  MPJ  -US 11:28, 15 September 2014 (UTC)`
 * I understand. Just so weird seeing this article's name when he's been Sin Cara for so long. Jedi Striker (talk) 07:05, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * and, are y'all aware that there is a separate article for the Sin Cara character in the vein of Suicide (wrestling)? starship  .paint   ~ regal  05:23, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Yep I know, another reason why this one should not be renamed to Sin Cara. MPJ  -US 02:24, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah I was aware. Which is why I'm willing to let this issue rest. Jedi Striker (talk) 06:54, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
 * All's fine then :) starship  .paint   ~ regal  13:55, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Move
While I support all users to make constructive changes to Wikipedia I am having a hard time seeing how the move to "Jorge Aria (Sin Cara II)" in any way makes sense. First of all the structure is all wrong, no other wrestling article has "real name (ring name)" like that. Second of all in the search for a name better than Hunico, presumably with WP:COMMON in mind, picked the least common name for him - In order of "best known" I think the order is closer to You could literally not have picked a worse name out of the info box to choose. How about "Sin Cara II", it is common practice from Psicosis II and La Parka II when someone else takes over a wrestling gimmick.  MPJ  -US 21:44, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) Sin Cara (II)
 * 2) Hunico
 * 3) Sin Cara Negro
 * 4) Incogito
 * 5) Mystico de Juarez
 * 6) Mistico
 * 7) Jorge Arias

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 one external links on Hunico. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive http://www.webcitation.org/5rxWdjgeq to http://www.fcwwrestling.info/talent.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111203200818/http://www.wrestleview.com/viewnews.php?id=1322303404 to http://www.wrestleview.com/viewnews.php?id=1322303404
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131017033657/http://www.chikarapro.com/results.php to http://www.Chikarapro.com/results.shtml

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 22:46, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Hunico. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.fcwwrestling.info/talent.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111113163728/http://www.wrestleview.com/viewnews.php?id=1321094623 to http://www.wrestleview.com/viewnews.php?id=1321094623
 * Added tag to http://www.wrestleview.com/viewnews.php?id=1324041962
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110104053932/http://www.fcwwrestling.info/hunico1.html to http://www.fcwwrestling.info/hunico1.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 18:10, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

"Professional wrestling highlights" Analysis
While discussions are still going on about if the section is in or out (here) I am not going to just wholesale delete the section with reference to the "Style Guide". For those that said "keep" that also gave policy references said that the section must be verifiable in Reliable soutces. So first I will look at each entry to see if it is actually sourced, without Original Research or Synthesis of published material. I will only remove data that fails the guidelines, see below please.  MPJ  -DK 04:04, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Notes
 * A "Finishing move" is not the same as a "move that finishes a match" otherwise the "school boy roll up" or "small package" should be listed. Source has to actually call it out as his finisher.
 * A "Signature move" is not just one that he's used in several matches, has to have a source calling it specifically a signature move


 * Finishing moves
 * As Sin Cara
 * High-angle senton bomb[34] – 2013–present
 * Source 34 calls it just a "swanton bomb" AND he was not in the match, how can it source what the Finishing move is? Also nothing on timeframe
 * Springboard senton bomb followed by a springboard moonsault[30][82] – 2011
 * Source 30 Says "springboard swanton" first of all, does not say it's a finishing move, just the move that finishes the match. Source 82 could just as well support that the moonsault is his finisher if you chose to interpret it like that, but does not explicitly state this.
 * Wheelbarrow victory roll to an opponent on the top rope[83][84][85][86][87] – 2012, 2014–2015
 * Source 83 - Said "sunset bomb into a Victory Roll", not how it is described in the section, nor stated that it's a "Finisher"
 * Source 84 - dead?
 * Source 85 - Is for when he worked as Hunico, cannot use that for Sin Cara, the description doesn't match and does not say "finisher" only "near fall"
 * Source 86 - Calls it a "Victory Roll bomb" and does not call it a finisher
 * Source 87 - Calls it a "Victory Roll bomb" and does not call it a finisher
 * As Hunico
 * Backbreaker rack lifted and spun into a Samoan drop,[88][89] sometimes from the top rope[90] – WWE; used as a signature move in FCW
 * Source 88 calls the move the "Argentine Samoan Drop", not what is listed here, source 89 did not mention the move at all, nor did Hunico win so no proof of "finishing" here. Souce 90 does not work, no idea what it said
 * Falling Star[45] (High-angle senton bomb)[3][91] – WWE
 * source "45" does name it the Falling Star" but calls it a "Swanton Bomb", so the two parts don't match. Source 3 was printed in 2008, cannot source his work as "Hunico" that started afterwards. Source 91 calls it a "Swanton Bomb", but doesn't give it a name nor confirms that this is his finishing move.
 * Hunico Special[8] (Leglock)[3] – FCW
 * The cited source 3 refers to Incognito, cannot source what the "Hunico Special" actually is
 * As Incognito
 * Incognito Especial[1] ( Leglock)[3]
 * That is as generic as it gets, a "leg lock".and Online World of Wrestling isn't exactly a Reliable Source.
 * Quebradora (Inverted Boston crab)[3]
 * Print source, reliable secondary source, assuming good faith on this one


 * Signature moves
 * As Sin Cara
 * Diving headbutt to a standing opponent, sometimes while springboarding[92][93][94][95]
 * Does not in any way state it's a "Signature move"
 * Enzuigiri, sometimes from the ring apron[93][95]
 * Does not in any way state it's a "Signature move"
 * Handspring back elbow[96][97][98]
 * Does not in any way state it's a "Signature move"
 * Headscissors takedown[92][93][95]
 * Does not in any way state it's a "Signature move"
 * Schoolboy transitioned into a deadlift powerbomb[99][100][101][102]
 * Does not in any way state it's a "Signature move"
 * Springboard crossbody[92][93][95]
 * Does not in any way state it's a "Signature move"
 * Springboard moonsault[103][104]
 * Does not in any way state it's a "Signature move"
 * As Hunico
 * Double underhook backbreaker[105][106][107]
 * Does not in any way state it's a "Signature move"
 * Northern Lights suplex[90]
 * Does not in any way state it's a "Signature move"
 * Saito suplex[90][108][109]
 * Does not in any way state it's a "Signature move"
 * Schoolboy transitioned into a deadlift powerbomb[99][100][101][102]
 * Does not in any way state it's a "Signature move"
 * Slingshot dropkick to an opponent seated in the corner[91][100][106][110]
 * Does not in any way state it's a "Signature move"
 * Slingshot somersault senton[91][99][105]
 * Does not in any way state it's a "Signature move"
 * Tilt-a-whirl backbreaker[90][91][100][106]
 * Does not in any way state it's a "Signature move"
 * As Incognito
 * Moonsault side slam[3]
 * Print source, reliable secondary source, assuming good faith on this one


 * Managers
 * Camacho[53]
 * The source does not state that Camacho is a "Manager", which matches the fact that he was never introduced as Hunico's manager as far as I am aware. Accompanying to the ring is not the same.


 * Entrance themes
 * "Ancient Spirit" by Jim Johnston[111] (August 12, 2011 – October 1, 2011; December 2, 2013 – January 25, 2015) (as Sin Cara)
 * Does not say anything about the timeframe so that part is unsourced
 * "Maldición (Curse)" by Jim Johnston[112] (October 2, 2011 – October 16, 2011) (as Sin Cara Negro )
 * Source does not cover time frame, nor that he was called "Sin Cara Negro"
 * "Respeto" by Reychesta Secret Weapon and Jim Johnston[113] (November 29, 2011 – November 15, 2013; used while teaming with Camacho) (as Hunico)
 * Nothing on time frame, nothing on teaming with Camacho
 * "Lucha Lucha" by CFO$[114] (September 11, 2014 – July 18, 2016; used while teaming with Kalisto) (as Sin Cara)
 * Again, nothing on timeframe, the source does not use the name "Kalisto", reworded to "As part of the Lucha Dragons"
 * "Faceless" by CFO$[115] (August 8, 2016 – present) (as Sin Cara)
 * Nothing states that this is his current theme song


 * Attention anyone who insists on reinserting the information I am about to remove - this is a Biography of a Living Person, which has stricter guidelines for Verifiability and sourcing and all information removed fails those guidelines. This article is part of a topic that's under General Sanctions, so please think twice before inserting information into the article again. If you have questions please let me know and we can go over guidelines etc. Additional note, remaning it "In wrestling" since that's what the RFC discussion calls it.  MPJ  -DK 04:04, 16 July 2018 (UTC)