Talk:Sneakers/Archive 1

Comments
Someone removed "Unlike some other footwear, sneakers do not make noise whilst the wearer is walking in them." Seemed harmless enough, in this already rather slender stub. Was it a violation of NPOV or something? The expression "sneaker" must have some history to tell. Is this all Wikipedia has on sneakers? Any links to Puma or Nike etc? --Wetman 07:38, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Not sure you guys will like my reformatting, change if necessary. HallofMirrors 03:37, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Pervertible
I am removing the "pervertible" section added by Fastifex (talk). Do other contributors think this material belongs in the Sneaker (footwear) article? If I am wrong in deleting it, please correct me. Thanks! --Michael Geary 18:04, 22 July 2006 (UTC)


 * no, I do not think it belonged here. 82.45.248.177 23:27, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Another question: Fastifex added a "see also" to Slippering (the punishment). Does that belong here? (Personally I don't think so, but I don't want to be too hasty about it.) --Michael Geary 15:46, 23 July 2006 (UTC)


 * If there's Slippering, I can see an obvious relation to the topic of Slipper due to the name, and a (short) reference to the proper article is only fair. At Sneaker, however, it's more than a stretch to claim any encyclopedic relevance of one to the other. How many types of shoes are there which should also get a link then? Femto 17:48, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Non-Athletic History
Sneakers were very quickly adopted for less peaceable uses. This history is most extensive and might warrant a new section or entry. For example, since the 1920's the underworld's "2nd story men" found them invaluable. Guerrilla and partisan fighters the world over employed sneakers in their clandestine actions. In WW2, the Filipinos and Malaysians, etc. used them in actions against the Japanese. In Korea, whole Communist armies used them to ensure stealth, even to the detriment of their health and life in sub-freezing weather. This should be expanded upon. Jopower (talk) 06:28, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Squeak!
The term "sneaker" itself was first used in 1916 by the US Rubber Company for the Keds brand, because rubber soles made the shoes less squeaky. ... less squeaky than what? --Abdull 12:59, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

I suspect you are refering to the all pervasive on-court squeak of basketball sneakers. In the days before this sport became so omnipresent, leather shoes often squeaked just walking anywhere. Men had to continually apologize for such ill-made or worn shoes. Sneakers almost instantly solved this problem. However, these shoes were quickly banned from business as being insufficently encouraging to the customer's expectation of proper elegance. Put simply, noone could put a shine on a sneaker and no proper businessman would dream of sneaking about in anything but the best leather shoes. Jopower (talk) 06:50, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 4 December 2015

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved. Sneaker will require a separate discussion. Jenks24 (talk) 15:48, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

Sneakers (footwear) → Sneakers – As good a movie as Sneakers (1992 film) is, there's a pretty clear primary topic for the term "sneakers", and it's the type of shoe. Sneakers is currently just a redirect to the disambiguation page Sneaker, so it doesn't really need to be relocated anywhere, and the six things listed as "Sneakers" on that page can be listed at Sneakers (disambiguation), which doesn't exist right now. Egsan Bacon (talk) 19:25, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Support but wouldn't the dab be at Sneaker, there's no need for a second dab page. In ictu oculi (talk) 22:31, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Shouldn't Sneaker redirect to Sneakers (or vice versa) – per WP:PLURAL? —BarrelProof (talk) 00:47, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Support, redirect sneaker to it as well, and move the current sneaker to sneaker (disambiguation). -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:07, 9 December 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

In French and Spanish
In the French Wikipedia site there is "Chaussure de sport" and in the Spanish Wikipedia site there is "Calzado deportivo," which are the counterparts of this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.232.85.66 (talk) 09:05, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

Comments
In this article there is the potential to add more information in the "sports use" section about the shoes themselves. Basketball, tennis, and trainers have some specific qualities that differentiate them from each other and make them more suitable for each use and this could be elaborated on in a brief more descriptive manner. Secondly, the "sneaker culture" section talks about the hip hop influence in bringing about the modern sneakerheads, which was a huge influence, but one more piece that could be added about the culture is how modern professional athletes are influencing the sneaker culture. For example Lebron James, James Harden, and Damian Lillard who all have their own sneaker lines being produced by various manufacturers. Even some professional football players and soccer players have inspired sneakers. These athletes are influencing the sneaker culture and tying it to sports. Eschholzalec (talk) 03:31, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

Truth
Up to 25 percent of americans don't wear sneakers.That should be included in this article. One poll in Vanity Fair found out up to 33 percent of americans own one or less pairs of sneakers. I am sure that most of that 33 percent of people probably don't even wear that one pair of sneakers they have otherwise they would have more pairs.

It is relevant to this article. ... added at 00:10, 28 June 2014‎ by User:68.84.240.18


 * I'm mildly surprised at the implication that as many as 75% of Americans wear sneakers. -- Hoary (talk) 07:57, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
 * 95% of statistics are made up. - Sum mer PhD  (talk) 13:12, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

I should state that growing up, "sneakers" referred to thin-soled canvas top shoes ("tennies" or "tennis shoes") which usually laced up, thick-soled canvas top shoes ("deck shoes") which came in both lace-up and slip-on versions, and "basketball shoes", which had a rounded white (rubbery?) toe, and which always laced-up. Basketball shoes were the only shoes that came in a "high top" version (also called "Converses" or "Converse shoes", "Pumas", etc.) The term "sneakers" is often limited to this category of shoe.68.83.46.229 (talk) 15:35, 24 June 2018 (UTC) 68.83.46.229 (talk) 15:35, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

Tennis Shoes
Why is this under "Sneakers", when it seems to be that Tennis Shoes is significantly more common?

https://www.rd.com/culture/regional-sayings-phrases-words/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.216.125.207 (talk) 00:22, 10 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep in mind that this is the English Wikipedia, serving English-speaking readers around the world, not just in the United States. Rivertorch FIREWATER  00:24, 10 December 2017 (UTC)


 * That argument doesn't fly, "Sneakers" is still used by fewer people worldwide than Tennis Shoes, even if you take the rest of the English speaking world into account. The term "sneakers" is most commonly used in the Northeastern United States, South Florida,[1][2] North Carolina, and parts of Canada and New Zealand, compared to tennis shoes, which is used in pretty much the rest of North American and Australia. Tennis shoes was also in use before Sneakers. Sounds like someone defending his preferred nomenclature than being objective. 68.118.62.224 (talk) 04:37, 12 August 2019 (UTC)


 * "Sneakers" is a very odd choice. 2 million Google hits compared to 68 million for "tennis shoes" and 118 million for "running shoes" JQ (talk) 19:13, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

Sneaker boot
I see this article doesn’t have an image of a sneaker boot. I would be happy to upload my Stride rite sneaker boots that demonstrate the sneaker boot extends to the calf. Zoe1013 (talk) 21:42, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Trainers
Sneakers are NOT called trainers in the UK, and I have removed this suggestion. The illustration shows what is called a plimsoll in the UK. Trainers are completely different. Unfortunately trainer redirects to this page. --Shantavira 14:18, 20 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Indented line — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.243.165.87 (talk) 01:04, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

The illustration is only one type of sneaker. The sneaker category pretty much includes most athletic shoes, plimsolls, trainers, and several other sub-categories.

In the UK, plimsolls are rarely, if ever, referred to as trainers; they are traditionally footwear worn by children at school for PE. I've never heard anyone use the word "sneakers" in the UK other than in the context of a conversation about American footwear. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.2.68.169 (talk) 15:37, 22 July 2017 (UTC)


 * In UK English a 'trainer' is a firm flat-sole sports shoe with a leather or synthetic upper primarily for outdoor sports or casual wear. A 'plimsoll', 'dap' or 'pump' is a simple, cheap, low-cut flexible flat-soled utility shoe with a canvas upper, typically slip on, but sometimes laced, used for indoor physical education. The two types of shoe are wholly distinct. American style canvas 'sneakers' would not be confused with plimsolls which are, almost by definition, devoid of any stylish elements or markings. It is the 'white vest' (UK vest, not US 't-shirt) of footwear, totally associated with school PE lessons, and, in the days of corporal punishment, an unpleasant whack across the buttocks. Stub Mandrel (talk) 16:07, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Tennies
Throughout my 1960's-1980's youth, sneakers were slanged "tennies" (from Tennis Shoes) by my parents, family and many neighbors... and eventually ourselves to the present day to our kids (though recently I note only when they are under 10 years of age, as tennies are no longer "cool" to male teens). This being in the US midwest, mountain states and California. Further, television shows occasionally used it. As such, the section about slang terms (which is upon a slang term itself... how curious!) should include this appellation.

I should also mention that "trainers" is a much more recent term which I did not hear applied to common daily sneakers till some time after 1990. Trainers were exclusively a term for expensive purpose-made athletic footwear prior to that in our area. If you had "trainers" before 2000, you were one of those snooty well off types and subject to minor derision and pranks. I know as I myself recall filling not a few pairs with mud, hoping they would dry like concrete before next wearing. (I suppose this qualifies as a 1st hand reference?) Jopower (talk) 06:04, 31 January 2015 (UTC)


 * From my UK schooldays in the late 60s early 70s through to today 'trainers' were and are 'non-specialist outdoor sports shoes' regardless of cost or quality Stub Mandrel (talk) 16:11, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Everyone in my day called then "Tennis shoes" or "Tennies" for short also. Moved from West coast to Midwest/south, and everyone there did too. I always thought that everyone called them that. Even the text of this article seems to imply that "Tennis shoes" are the common name, and that sneakers is a nickname that youth gave them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.216.125.207 (talk) 00:15, 10 December 2017 (UTC)


 * In my youth, in the Midwest in the fifties and sixties, we said tennies/tennis shoes, but also gym shoes (high-topped); runners/running shoes, and flats (thin, cut under the ankles). I use sneakers, but i don't know when I started using the term, no exactly what it includes and excludes.  I think it will be hard to get authoritative sources on the various terms' distribution in space and time.  Maybe material from manufacturers can give a it of guidance. 31.132.81.213 (talk) 12:25, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 September 2021
Please add template directing ppl looking for the heraldric color to Tenné. Thx 220.235.85.159 (talk) 09:29, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: Why? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 10:58, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Because 'tenné' is often spelt "tenny" in English. Tenny currently redirects to Sneakers.
 * Alternatively, you could convert Tenny to a DISAM. 220.235.85.159 (talk) 03:33, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. And where exactly should this be added? In addition, the other issues are not ones that can be dealt via an edit request on this page. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 02:29, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 5 April 2021 and 21 May 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Cruzy2064.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 09:34, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Ambiguous Information
Over what period of time are 14 lbs. of CO2 emissions produced by the manufacture by the production Sneakers? 184.57.74.216 (talk) 02:57, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

Adidas
Adidas was established after WW2. Adolf Dasler began producing sports shoes after WW1 with his brother Rudi. 178.143.152.250 (talk) 15:19, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 26 January 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: no consensus. (closed by non-admin page mover) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 02:13, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Sneakers → Sneaker – Singular article titles are the Wikipedia standard, per WP:PLURAL ("In general, Wikipedia articles have singular titles"), and this usage is supported by comparable articles such as Shoe, Boot, Sandal, and Slipper. Dan Bloch (talk) 00:15, 26 January 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. --  Dane talk  16:22, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per WP:SINGULAR. Rreagan007 (talk) 01:26, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose a sneaker is a person who sneaks. Singular is ambiguous in this case. And frankly WP:SINGULAR is getting silly. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:44, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose - the current plural title is unambiguous, whereas the singular is. See also the exception example at WP:PLURAL which covers scissors/handcuffs vs scissor/handcuff. -- Netoholic @ 05:56, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment – No opinion on the proposed move, but I think it may also be worthwhile to examine the recent RM at Talk:Bunny boots, which also revolved around singular vs. plural titling for footwear articles. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 16:56, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
 * There was also a recent failed RM on whether or not "Clog" should be moved to "Clogs", which seems directly applicable to this case. Rreagan007 (talk) 17:02, 27 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Comment I think a move to Athletic shoe should be considered as well. That article was merged into Sneakers back in 2015.  However, I believe that "athletic shoe" is probably a better catch-all term for the variety of footwear discussed in the article. 162 etc. (talk) 18:42, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
 * That probably would be a better general term for the article title. I support move to athletic shoe. Rreagan007 (talk) 21:49, 27 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Support per nom.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 20:52, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Support the proposed move per nom. Unlike a plurale tantum like scissors, a sneaker can most certainly be analyzed in the singular and can now even be bought in the singular e.g. here.  I am also fine with  (in the singular) if others are so inclined.  —  AjaxSmack  04:16, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Almost invariably seen in the plural. Dogma is rarely a good thing. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:37, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * comment I do not have any opinion in this discussion, but regarding consistency, other wearable articles should also be considered: trousers, underpants, and panties among others. Either all should be moved to singular, or all should be kept at plural. —usernamekiran (talk) 04:13, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Those are different because they do not have a singular form. Rreagan007 (talk) 18:24, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 17:01, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose They would never be sold as a singular (due to ablism, but nevertheless...), and the singular introduces disambiguation problems per the above. A move to something like athletic shoe would better describe the class of item, whereas colloquial use would never have sneaker in the singular (except "my dog stole a sneaker"). Sadads (talk) 22:06, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
 * "Never" is a bit strong. I gave an example above of a major American shoe seller (Amazon subsidiary Zappos) that will happily sell you one sneaker. —  AjaxSmack  19:45, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose, nothing broken. Randy Kryn (talk) 06:37, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose, the opening line itself treats it in plural form. This item is purposefully created in pairs for obvious reasons too. --Killuminator (talk) 22:33, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 11 February 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: no consensus. No consensus on pretty much anything: whether to move or whether to unmerge! (closed by non-admin page mover) Sceptre (talk) 14:39, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

Sneakers → Athletic shoe – See previous RM. The shoes that are described in this article may be known as sneakers, running shoes, tennis shoes, trainers, joggers, or many more names. "Athletic shoe" (previously its own article until it was merged into this one) is a good catch-all term that is common to all national varieties of English. 162 etc. (talk) 17:30, 11 February 2023 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Ugh. Maybe undo the merge? "Athletic shoe" is a good title for an article on athletic shoes, but in the usage I am familiar with, "sneaker" (low-tech, casual) and "athletic shoe" (high-tech, functional) are basically mutually exclusive. Dekimasu よ! 18:28, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I'd be interested to see if secondary sources agree with your definitions. And how would you categorize something like Chuck Taylors? They can be seen as casual shoes today, but were worn by almost all professional basketball players through much of the 20th century. 162 etc. (talk) 22:51, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I’d say at least some basketball shoes and tennis shoes qualify as both sneakers and athletic shoes, but running shoes are definitely distinct as athletic shoes. On the other hand, maybe it mostly depends on the purpose for which a given pair is worn. Language isn’t math… —В²C ☎ 00:23, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose - conflates two similar, but distinct, classes of of shoes. I also agree it might be proper to undo the merge per Dekimasu. -- Netoholic @ 14:00, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Support. Rreagan007 (talk) 18:41, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Leaning support. I oppose a split. A lot of it is marketing, but historically it looks like companies introduce athletic shoes with tech, some sell well, and the best sellers are marketed years later as "classic" sneakers. Going lower tech, we already have an article on plimsolls (which incidentally are referred to as "athletic shoes" in that article's lead). 70.163.208.142 (talk) 00:45, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Undo merge per Dekimasu. These are probably best addressed as two separate-if-related topics.  SnowFire (talk) 00:04, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Support. Ultimately, most sneakers are or were athletic shoes, so it makes sense for Sneakers to redirect to an article about Athletic shoes. —В²C ☎ 00:28, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

Daps - British English
The term Daps is or was 1960s to 107-s at least) not only used in Welsh English but in the South West of England was a common term for a type of canvas, rubber soled, usually slip on, gym shoe also generally synonymous with plimsoles. I still use this term for such shoes and am understood in the UK, but I have no idea how widespread its use is now as modern trainers are generally more popular.

The American term Sneakers is not used in British English and I had to look it up in Wiki. It appears to encompass a very wide variety of shoes.

Is there any objection to changing the term Daps from not only Welsh English to British English? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lkingscott (talk • contribs) 12:53, 4 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Changed. Dan Bloch (talk) 22:21, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 23:10, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Sneakers worn in an Oval Office meeting, May 2023.webp

So... obviously this should be in American English
as the closely associated dialect for this topic and it should actually talk about sneakers.

The current article is bizarre, focused almost entirely on an entirely different 19th century British style of protosneaker/boat shoe. I suppose no one noticed we have an entirely different article on plimsolls and sneakers (this article) doesn't need to talk about them at all?

Yeah. Well. At some point, kindly do fix that. — Llywelyn II   16:52, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Mule sneakers
This article and mules (shoe) would benefit also from showing and discussing both mule-styled (backless) sneakers and regular sneakers worn as mules by crushing the back beneath the heel. Dunno how common it is now or historically in the US and UK but they're fairly common ways to wear canvas-top sneakers like Converses across East Asia and Southeast Asia in the summer and in hotter climates. — Llywelyn II   07:10, 3 July 2023 (UTC)