Talk:Socialist feminism

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from Vfd
On 25 Feb 2005, this article was nominated for deletion. The result was keep. See Votes for deletion/Socialist feminism for a record of the discussion.

Feminism was an early value of socialism
My impression is that this article presents socialist feminist as a reaction to Marxism. However, feminism has strong roots in the socialist and communist movements, even predating Marxism. For example, Catherine Barmby and Goodwyn Barmby were staunch feminists who coined the term communism and established socialist communes. Should we not suggest that feminism was an early value of socialism?--Duncan 13:50, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

"Marx felt that when class oppression was overcome, gender oppression would vanish as well" Can we get some kind of citation on this? its interesting and id like to read more. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.216.115.58 (talk • contribs) 09:16, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Links
There's a lot of external links here, which should be unnecessary if the article itself is worth having. Could an expert take a look and remove them. StopItTidyUp 10:17, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

The Radical Women Manifesto
I think we should cut this link. While the manifesto itself is great, really great, this is just a commercial link to a page where you can buy it. That doesn't add anything and, clearly, is not a reference. --Duncan (talk) 17:13, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

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Addition re: Sarah Evans addition on Cold War impact on socialist feminism
I added a sentence in the introductory section to introduce writer and scholar Sarah Evans' theory that socialist feminism has suffered in the post-Cold War era due to the narrative associating socialism with totalitarianism and dogma. Geenge01 (talk) 00:18, 26 September 2018 (UTC)Geenge01


 * Interesting perspective..I presume, this heavily anti-socialist narrative that has arisen, this is mainly in Europe? And is it more prevalent in western or eastern Europe? Or about the same? In America, the exact opposite has been happening. During the Cold War, supporting socialism was only a few steps away from being considered treason (punishable by death). Now, socialists are close to becoming a mainstream political wing: socialists/socialism at present having the most support in America than it has in 100 years. Firejuggler86 (talk) 23:36, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

Intersectionality Section
I have added a section to this article to discuss intersectionality as it relates to socialist feminism. I discuss the legacy of intersectionality within socialist feminism and present critiques that have been leveled against the socialist feminist movement for its failure to accurately account for racial oppression in addition to class and gender oppression. Geenge01 (talk) 20:16, 22 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Ok. There should be included the socialist (/socialist feminist) response to this as well, which I am sure there are, provided these so-caled present 'critiques' (criticisms) are not from credible academic circles...which response I can fairly confidently can say would be along such lines: That racial inequality/oppression itself IS - like sex inequality - a direct product of the capitalist mode of society. Therefore, they would say that the changes they advocate for do already include the solution to end/reduce racial oppression. And, they would counter that any and all attempts to bring about an end to racial inequality or sex inequality, while preserving the capitalist system - a system that inherently relies on the very existence of inequality itself - will inevitably fail. Firejuggler86 (talk) 23:25, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

Gender pay gap
The following is what I wish to incorporate into the article Socialist feminism following the "Motherhood and the private sphere" section. 

Gender pay gap[Heading]

Socialist feminist theories have been used to highlight the economic disparities amongst women on a global scale. Contemporary socialist feminists have shifted their concerns from uncompensated house labor to the insufficient pay women receive for work done outside the home. Although some women have secured high-paying male-dominated jobs, most find work in service, clerical, agriculture, and light industrial work.[1] Feminist philosopher, Rosemarie Tong, presents three common reasons for the gender wage gap; “the concentration of women in low-paying, female-dominated jobs; the high percentage of women who work part-time rather than full-time; and outright wage discrimination against women."[1]

The gender pay gap has been produced and sustained through patriarchal and capitalist conditions. The feminization and devaluation of service-based jobs have subjected women to low wages. The lack of access women have to alternative employment which may harbor higher pay, has increased the wage gap. Households that cannot hire additional aid for domestic duties limit the hours women are able to work outside their homes—having to do both outside and inside labor results in the uncompensated “second shift,” expanding the gap. Women’s work is considered “secondary wages” under patriarchy.[1] Even women who can work full-time and do the same jobs as men are not paid equally. Tong claims that “women are paid less simply because they are women, a very disturbing thought to say the least.”[1]

Nrds97 (talk) 19:33, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

Phlaventall (talk) 19:45, 7 November 2020 (UTC)== Restructuring Socialist Feminism Wikipedia page ==

Hello! I am editing the Socialist Feminism wiki page for a class project. I am proposing that we restructure how the page is organized. Topics such as “Intersectionality”, “Motherhood and the private sphere”, and “Gender pay gap” should be moved up the page and put after the Overview or after the differing theoretical perspective on socialist feminism, and be put under the title “Socialist Feminist Core Issues”. Maybe my communication studies major is coming out, but how the information is structured and displayed anywhere is important. People don’t look past the first few sections of a wiki page, so core issues should be highlighted or discussed first so readers know what socialist feminism is ‘fighting’ for. I am thinking of changing the organization to this (if this is allowed): Overview/Summary, Core Issues, Socialist Feminist Traditions (moving Anarcha-feminism and Marxist Feminism to traditions), Later Theoretical Works, Theorists, and Praxis. Thoughts? Phlaventall (talk) 19:45, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Hello,

I don't personally have any strong opinion on the matter, however, I would recommend that any radical restructuring of the page that you undertake for a class project, to keep it as a draft somewhere in your userspace, or wherever thats not the main article space, until you can get a consensus to publish the change. Also, there should be at least some notice elsewhere other than this talk page - recommended, post a notice on the socialism and feminism project talk pages, if you feel it helpful start an RfC..if there should happen to be little to no response, after a reasonable amount of time (10-30 days or so), then you can just go ahead and publish your changes: but if they are reverted, do not revert the revert. Firejuggler86 (talk) 22:01, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

Restructuring Socialist Feminism Wikipedia page
Hello! I am editing the Socialist Feminism wiki page for a class project. I am proposing that we restructure how the page is organized. Topics such as “Intersectionality”, “Motherhood and the private sphere”, and “Gender pay gap” should be moved up the page and put after the Overview or after the differing theoretical perspective on socialist feminism, and be put under the title “Socialist Feminist Core Issues”. Maybe my communication studies major is coming out, but how the information is structured and displayed anywhere is important. People don’t look past the first few sections of a wiki page, so core issues should be highlighted or discussed first so readers know what socialist feminism is ‘fighting’ for. I am thinking of changing the organization to this (if this is allowed): Overview/Summary, Core Issues, Socialist Feminist Traditions (moving Anarcha-feminism and Marxist Feminism to traditions), Later Theoretical Works, Theorists, and Praxis. Thoughts?

My apologies if this is posting twice, not sure how the talk page for Wikipedia works. Phlaventall (talk) 19:46, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I think the restructuring is a very good idea. It might be better not to have an Overview section first, though. You might want to start with "Origins", and add stuff about Sylvia Pankhurst and Alexandra Kollontai. Best to just go ahead and do it, using the Be Bold principle. Keep as much as you can of the existing material. Look at other pages on political ideas that have Good Article or Featured Article status. Itsmejudith (talk) 20:46, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

Out of Scope
What do people think about the "Anarchy-Feminism" and "Marxist Feminism" being in this Wikipedia page? It seems like it might be out of scope for what this page is trying to accomplish. Phlaventall (talk) 21:05, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

Nawal El Saadawi, Mona Eltahawy, Mona Helmi
We should add the above Egyptian Feminists who are socialist feminists Nlivataye (talk) 17:14, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

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