Talk:Soft drink/Archive 2

Fermentation?
I seem to remember that the reason why soft drinks were called soft drinks was because they used to be brewed by fermentation like alcoholic beverages but had only minimal alcohol content. Can anyone confirm this? Jarwulf 18:09, 2 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I can't source this, but Root Beer, Sasparilla, and Cream Soda were some of the earliest forms of "soft drink" all of which are non-alcoholic, brewed beverages.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.201.147.6 (talk) 20:28, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Proposed merge
Proposed merge of Fountain drink to this article


 * That stub needs to be merged into this article. VigilancePrime (talk) 06:32, 6 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Oppose Wrong. Fountain drinks and soft drinks are two different things.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.45.166.232 (talk) 19:26, 19 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Support I agree with VigilancePrime. The article should be merged. 129.15.131.246 (talk) 05:20, 14 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Oppose Fountain drinks are generally prepared by hand, often with several ingredients. Soft drinks (in the sense of sodas) are generally a pre-made syrup mixed with soda water automatically by machine. There is a difference. Sleeping143 (talk) 16:30, 18 May 2008

(UTC)
 * Support A have heard many times "fountain drinks" used to describe machine-made soft drinks such as here. I support the merge.--Darknus823 (talk) 18:24, 14 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Oppose - reasoning: Soft drinks are a large group of beverages that are non-alcoholic (hard drinks), they include juices, punches, sodas, milk drinks, coffee etc. Fountain drinks are any beverage that is served fresh from a fountain (think soda jerk) - that could be milkshakes that are hand spun, sodas, mixed non alcoholic drinks such as a lime rickey, flavored iced tea, Shirley Temples and Roy Rogers.


 * Support - Fountain drinks are part of the history of today's bottled soft drinks and the term is usually is taken to mean soft drinks served in a cup or other drink container (as opposed to a bottle.) While "retro" soda fountains exist, still serving lime rickeys and other such classics, the vast majority of today's soda fountains are machines which mix water or carbonated water with premixed syrups or concentrates. The soft drinks article already has some historical notation as to fountain drinks and can easily be expanded to include adequate coverage and discussion of historial and modern usage of the term "fountain drink." Geoff  TC 15:53, 6 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Support - Fountain drinks are a form of Soft Drink, so they should be in the soft drink article. PotatoTheThird (talk) 14:09, 16 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Oppose - Suggest merge into Soda fountain. That would be a much better merge as fountain drinks are the product of soda fountains. Andyo2000 (talk) 03:53, 8 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Oppose- I agree with Andyo2000. Soda fountain is more relevant to soda drink. --Roaring Siren (talk) 16:14, 11 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment- Part of the confusion and difference of opinion here might be rooted in national usage in the different flavors of the English language. Usage in the United States for "soft drink" is generally only soda drinks.  I stuck the "generally" in there because someone, somewhere in a corner of Idaho might refer to lemonade or orange juice as a "soft drink", but I have never heard it.  In general USA usage, lemonade, juices, punches, milk drinks, coffee, etc., are NOT called "soft drinks".  A "soft drink" is a carbonated, fizzy, effervescent concoction, such as Coca-Cola, or a fountain drink.  So in the USA, "fountain drink" would be a subset of "soft drink", but "lemonade" would not.  Leastways that's the way my old ears have always hyeard it.  Eastcote (talk) 01:05, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

People lets do this right, please comment Oppose or Support. Asides should use Comment. I have listed this on the soft drinks and food project pages' merge section to help garner more interest in the subject.


 * Time to close this discussion. No consensus: no merge. -- P 1 9 9 • TALK 19:09, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Non-Alcoholic beverages?
I notice that the article ends with a section on non-alcoholic beverages, which (to my understanding) has little relevance in a soda article. While sodas are a subtype of non-alcoholic beverages, there is no need to have a section listing what constitutes a non-alcoholic drink. Therefore, I am deleting the section. Should anyone feel that the section is valuable to the article's topic, they can restore the section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paradoxicalengineer (talk • contribs) 00:48, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Also the "Non-alcoholic" being redirected to "Soft Drink" article which is somewhat confusing to me because not all non-alcoholic drinks are soft drinks, for example: tea, coffee, milk, juices, and so on. Please consider un-merging those 2. Mecooking (talk) 13:28, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Ice Cream Soda
The section on floats states that they are generally called "Ice Cream Sodas" in the midwest. I live in eastern Wisconsin and have never heard anyone refer to a float this way. Is this a general mistake, or another oddity of Wisconsin? It is probably worth noting that this same area also refers to soft drinks as soda, not pop. Possibly these are somewhat connected? Sleeping143 (talk) 16:42, 18 May 2008 (UTC) Not sure about that, we call them floats here in ye olde Illinois. James Whales (talk) 18:28, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. Over here in Salt Lake City, Utah, we call them floats. -- Javawizard (talk) 04:43, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

It's mostly a "Ye Olde" term, used in old-fashioned soda shops or ice-cream parlors. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PotatoTheThird (talk • contribs) 14:17, 16 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Generally speaking, the term float is used when a premade soda is used, while the term ice cream soda is used when a syrup and soda water are used.--RLent (talk) 16:54, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Buttering practises?
Can somebody please explain what this is? Seriously, buttering? That's got to be somebody's idea of a joke --86.147.7.230 (talk) 21:13, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Looks like vandalism, removed. Mr.Z-man 22:41, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

It's actually true, I can vouch for this as I lived in the English backwaters for 2 1/2 years. Bombman (talk) 17:39, 17 August 2008 (UTC) It makes the feeling of carbonation on your tongue less harsh. Doesn't affect the flavour much either —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.218.68.226 (talk) 17:45, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't even see a hint of this on Google, please provide a source before re-adding it. Mr.Z-man 14:44, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Coke?
I have also posted this on the "Colloquialism" page:

My entire life, I have lived in Northern Florida - which is obviously part of the "Southern United States" - and I've NEVER heard of someone calling any form of soft drink other than Coca-Cola "Coke." I've only EVER - even in visiting other areas and through visiters from other areas - heard them called "soft drinks," "fountain drinks," or most commonly "sodas."

The word "Coke" IS very commonly used, but only when referring specifically to Coca-Cola. I have relatives in Georgia, Tennessee, Kentucky, other areas of Florida, and Alabama. I've visited all of these areas as well as the Carolinas, Louisiana and Texas, and I guarantee that if you were to visit Florida or any of those places, go to a restaurant and ask for a "Coke," you would get: a Coca-Cola, a response of "We don't have Coke, we have Pepsi...?" or possibly (and unknowingly) a Pepsi or RC Cola in an unmarked glass. If you were to ask "What kind of Coke do you have?" you would get a very confused look or a reply of "Regular and Diet" or possibly "Regular, Diet, and Cherry."

Now I cannot speak for all of the "Southern U.S.," but I can surely speak for my area of Northeast Florida and Southeast Georgia. There may be parts of Northern Alabama, Arkansas, Virginia, Oklahoma, or West Texas that use the term "Coke" to refer to sodas, but I find it VERY doubtful, and I don't really even consider those areas part of the South. There could also be small parts of other Southern States that use this umbrella word, but I also find that doubtful.

I don't know who came up with this idea that Southerners refer to all sodas as "Coke" but I cannot stress enough the fact that I live in the South and have never in my entire life (other than on this Wikipedia page) heard of this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.178.246.56 (talk) 21:58, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * See the The Great Pop vs. Soda Controversy. Rmhermen (talk) 00:29, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

So...... based on a survey with a conclusion of People who say "Pop" are much, much cooler. People in the South call all forms of soda "Coke"?

I would guess that the people who participated in that "survey" by adding the response of "Coke" either did not understand the question or chose the most ridiculous answer as a joke. I don't feel that one survey conducted on the internet should be used as a reliable source. Furthermore, I would like to know who decided to add the "fact" that all sodas are called "Coke" in the American South. Were they from the American South? Have they ever heard the term used to describe all soft drinks? Has anyone ever heard of this? If there isn't any actual proof of the term "Coke" being used in this way, I strongly feel that this "fact" should be removed from all pages on which it appears. (by the original poster of topic)
 * No it use is well established. See http://www.bartleby.com/61/31/T0263100.html (American Heritage dictionary). Rmhermen (talk) 02:08, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Alright, well I'll admit that that is a more reputable source, but that doesn't neccessarily prove that it's true. I wouldn't be so doubtful of this idea if I had ever heard even a single instance of this use. Have you ever actually heard anyone use the word "Coke" in this instance??? I'm sorry to be so persistent about this, but I just don't understand how this can be an established fact about the common use of a word in the South when I actually live in the South and have never heard of it. (by the original poster of topic) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.178.242.113 (talk) 04:11, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Having only ever spent 2 weeks of my life south of Kentucky, I am not a good source on this. However the use of coke is well-attested throughout the south- see this discussion from the Atlanta Journal Constitution: . Rmhermen (talk) 15:30, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, of course this article is basing its information on the same on-line survey you mentioned earlier. It does quote a Georgia Tech student as saying when he hears people saying pop or soda he corrects them by telling them to "say it right," but it doesn't actually quote anyone as using "coke" to describe sodas in general. I'm definitely starting to accept that it may be used in such a way, but I just can't understand why I've never heard this before. I mean, I live here. And it's such a ridiculous notion: "What type of Coke do you want?" ... "Mellow Yellow." What? (by the original poster of topic)
 * "What type of Coke do you want?" ... "Coke." ... "Yes, what kind?" ... "Um, regular?" ... "Regular what?" ... "Coke!" ... "But what kind of Coke?" — I can see why this isn't used very heavily. Mr.Z-man 21:36, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Apparently it isn't rare. Here is another discussing some of the same data along with others: . Supposedly this one [ http://cfprod01.imt.uwm.edu/Dept/FLL/linguistics/dialect/staticmaps/q_105.html] is a dialect survey covering the use of the term coke by Harvard but I can't get it to load. Rmhermen (talk) 23:51, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

This article also gets its information from an old survey taken on the internet. Not only that, but it says: In the South, it's called Coke, even when it's Pepsi. This may be the problem.

Now, I talked to my father, age 52 - who grew up in Tennesse and moved to Florida with his family as an adolescent - about this and he says when he was younger, he would sometimes call all forms of cola "Coke," but NOT any other soft drink (such as Ginger Ale, Dr. Pepper, Root Beer, etc.). I think the problem may be that the participants in these surveys assumed the question was, "what do you call cola in general?" due to a lack of an understanding of the difference between the words cola and soda.

For instance, the question on the "Pop vs. Soda" survey is ''What generic word do you use to describe carbonated soft drinks? (Note that these could be of any brand or type, Coca-Cola, Pepsi, 7-Up, etc. We are concerned with the overall word, not a specific brand.)'' Notice that the first two examples are Coca-Cola and Pepsi, and that there is only one other example (7-Up) before an "etc." Perhaps the participants came into the survey with a false idea of what the "Pop vs. Soda" debate was actually debating, and therefore neglected to understand or read the question in full.

The notion that Southerners refer to all forms of cola as "Coke" is far more understandable, albeit incorrect. But then again, the soft-drink usage of "Coke" is still very possible. I could even believe it if I was to have definitive proof of it's use. I guess the best solution would be to at least change the entries to say "In some parts of the American South, it is known as Coke" until a resolution can be reached. (by the original poster of topic)
 * As I mentioned the second link gets some of its information from the same source. It also list additional professional linguists. So far you have offered only personal experience to stack against reliable sources. Rmhermen (talk) 21:57, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

I understand that I've only offered personal experience, and that's why I've only discussed the idea rather than actually changing the entries. But I would find my actual experience to be more representative of regional dialect than a couple of articles and information found on the internet, possibly based on the same on-line survey. I must also argue that it is understandably more difficult to find articles about the non-use of a word in a region. I do realize that it's very possible for this umbrella-term use of "Coke" to be true for many areas of the South, but I think my experience is enough to merit a partial change of the entry. I mean, if my father and I have lived in the South our whole lives without hearing a single instance of this use, it should be known that there are some areas of the region that DON'T use the word in this manner. (by the original poster of topic) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.178.245.30 (talk) 22:46, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

As somebody that comes from the south I can vouch for the use of coke as a term to refer to more than just cola or Coca Cola. I have heard converstations such as this in fast food drive thrus and restaurants. "I'd like a coke please." "What kind?" "Sprite" to specify Coca Cola brand they would say Coca Cola. However this usage is not very common in my experience and shouldn't be applied to the south as a whole but can and should be mentioned.Tyn53 (talk) 20:21, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

An old friend of mine used "coke" to describe all soda's. While I don't here it widely used, it's still used by some people. PotatoTheThird (talk) 14:19, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

From North Texas, I mostly hear Soda and Coke. But coke usually refers to a soda that has coke like properties, like Pepsi or RC Cola. But my friend's dad calls soda, Pop, hell sometimes he calls it Soda Pop. He's from Michigan, okay I'm getting off topic, but it's all a regional thing. Once you travel around you hear all different things being used.--Craigboy (talk) 03:30, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

As far as I'm aware Pepsi would be considered a coke in the UK, as well as any other supermarket brand colas and such; though it would, when talking specifically, refer to Coca-Cola only:

e.g

A: "I'll have a coke"

B: "Pepsi or Tesco's Cola?"

--Kurtle (talk) 22:43, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Being in the UK, barstaff often say they only have pepsi if you ask for a coke - a different but equal alternative. But they still acknowledge coke as a brand, not a generic label. Either way, coke is not a name reffering to any soft drinks, and I'm amazed this hasn't been resolved yet. It comes across as blatant advertising. 109.156.237.56 (talk) 19:27, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
 * It has been resolved, with the citation in the lede, since June. -Achowat (talk) 19:35, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Flagged as needing citation. I think there was, but now it's gone. It really does need a citation, though, because it certainly not well known that it is used to mean 'soft drink'. Indeed elsewhere in the article it is used to refer to Coca-Cola and the Coca-Cola company. I think Coca Cola have it is a trademark still. I have heard it used mostly as synonym for CocaCola, and less often for colas in general. Give me a reliable reference, and I'll believe ;) 60.240.207.146 (talk) 09:18, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

List Of Them
yeah i added an article on the page called "List Of Soft Drinks" and someone removed it, what happened? (Mini no ipod (talk) 22:18, 18 August 2008 (UTC))
 * This already exists at List of soft drinks by country, it would be far too long to put it in this article. Mr.Z-man 14:47, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

then we just list the ones known in North America then

A link to the article itself would be less cluttered, and make it so that whoever is updating the list would only need to update the original list. 164.106.45.189 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 18:22, 23 January 2009 (UTC).

NPOV
Excessive contoversy topics clogging up the article with minimal work on otheer portions being done. The article should be edited in a way that provides a more neutral point of view. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Spitfire19 (talk • contribs) 17:26, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

The article is written from a overly US point of view, with details that are irrelevant to the rest of the world. Soft drinks have an important position in developing countries in terms of their modernisation/Westernisation/globalisation, while seeming entirely local to the locals. Earthlyreason (talk) 02:28, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

The name "Soda"; does it come from the use of the chemical sodium carbonate?
The article says how one of the early processes, of producing carbonated water, was to use chalk, and sulphuric acid. I thought chalk was made of calcium carbonate. Was Sodium Carbonate used, and did that lead to the name "soda"? Jellyboots (talk) 05:51, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

It's the other way around. The word soda originated in medieval times, I'm guessing in alchemical circles, but has unknown origin beyond that. It was used to refer to the alkinaline mixture created by mixtures of ash. Sodium was named by Sir Humphry Davy, the scientist who first isolated it, based on the existing word. Interestingly, Davy's coining predates the use of soda to refer to soft drinks by two or three decades. (OED, Wikipedia) 98.191.16.180 (talk) 01:39, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

packs of 360?
I have never heard of pop coming in a pack of 360, as this sentence states. "Cans are packaged in a variety of quantities such as six packs, 12 packs and cases of 24, 36, and 360." Is this real or just vandalism? —Preceding unsigned comment added by T-Money92 (talk • contribs) 03:03, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm guessing that this is referring to commercial cases of 10 36-pack cases or 60 six-packs (often arranged in layered "trays" with or without the six-pack webbing). These might be the bulk units purchased by retailers or wholesalers, but almost never by end consumers (who would ordinarily purchase one or two of the smaller subunits take from the larger wholesale case). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.240.26.4 (talk) 17:56, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Brands Vs The Bottler
Coke,Pepsi,Fanta (Coke) sell syrup to bottlers around the world there is not one big Coke Factory but many around the world most not owned by Coke parts of the artical refer to brands as the reason for can size I do no think that has anything to do with it more likely the USA drinks more soda then any other country so 2 liter bottles cost the least as well for cans vening machines only take one size and canada for instance only switch to metric 20 years ago so there are many old bottling machines that cost alot of money still being used  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.67.176.172 (talk) 13:36, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Merge proposal from Sugar drink
A new article with no references appeared on May 4 as Sugar drink. I suggest that its worthy elements be incorporated here, with suitable refs, and that it become a redirect page. Binksternet (talk) 15:30, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I see you're taking an idiosyncratic interest in my other articles too, Bink. :) As anyone knows, a "soft drink" is almost always a carbonated drink. Not all sugar drinks are carbonated drinks &mdash;most "fruit juices" out there are actually just high sugar drinks, not the 'juice of fruit' at all, and neither are they "soft drinks" at all either. Not all soft drinks are high-sugar, though, and the term "diet drink" (a generalization of "diet soda") largely means just "little-or-no-sugar drink." If you're more interested in this idea of logic as applied to terminology, you can read my piece on Conceptualization when it comes out in a day or two. Thanks for your interest. -Stevertigo 18:31, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Encyclopedia article titles should come from common or expert usages. How many people use the phrase "sugar drink"? Researchers, dietitians and sociologists, when referring to the overindulgence of sweetened beverages, use what terminology? Binksternet (talk) 22:12, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Soft drink ingredients
A small section schould describe how soft drinks can be made previously and at present. For example, common ingredients as gum arabic and common soft drink ingredients should be noted. Mention how diet coke can be made from dry ingredients, ... Also, the production method of natural soft drinks can be mentioned (eg soft drinks made from flowers, lerp, ...) Examples include flower drink from Banksia marginata, Banksia dentata, flower drink from manna gum (Acacia difficilis, Hakea ivoryi, Hakea lorea, Eucalyptus viminalis, Grevillea spp., Grewia polygama, Grewia brachiflora, Grewia orientalis, Grewia retusifolia) of, drinks from tree saps (tapped from upwards water flow) eg Betula

Finally, can someone alter the "non-diet soft drinks"; this should be something like (very) low-calory soft drinks", as a diet refers to a correct eating/drinking pattern and not to "losing weight" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.245.94.247 (talk) 07:01, 13 July 2009 (UTC) but these soft drink are not that goo d4 health  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.4.32.5 (talk) 17:36, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Kombucha
Kombucha isnt mentioned

Conflict of interest and neutrality of bone density section
The section on bone density has two boxes, one for conflict of interest and one for a challenge to its neutrality, referring users to the talk page. However, there is no discussion whatsoever of these boxes on this talk page. Why are they there? 67.82.94.111 (talk) 16:56, 10 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I suspect that the tags are from people questioning this source and the motives of whoever linked to it: http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=1216030527304&pagename=Zone-English-HealthScience%2FHSELayout. The source contains some ridiculous claims and looks completely unreliable. The section needs to be rewritten to reflect actual medical research. Neramesh (talk) 19:10, 10 October 2009 (UTC)


 * There is no scientific evidence of a decrease in bone density due to soda intake. Until citation of a few good studies showing a causation between soda and bone density decrease the section on bone density should be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.120.152.145 (talk) 16:58, 5 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Link to the actual American Journal of Clinical Nutrition (September 2001) in question: Carbonated Beverages and the urinary calcium excretion. www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/74/3/343

In section, "Abstract" we find: "Conclusions: The excess calciuria associated with consumption of carbonated beverages is confined to caffeinated beverages.."the net effect of carbonated beverage constituents on calcium economy is negligible. T" HeyOlivia (talk) 23:12, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Israeli name for soda
The modern Hebrew names for carbonated drinks would be "tosses", I believe, not "tosser". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.116.38.146 (talk) 01:58, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Phosphates
All,

I created a section describing a variant of soda or soda preparation referred to as a "phosphate." I used to drink them at the local pharmacy as a child and remember them well. I tried to find as much relavant information on this soda as possible but did not cite a source. If anyone knows more about this type of soda, please add or remove. I am new to this and should have probably proposed the section here.

Thanks,

Will Willoc (talk) 03:02, 18 July 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Willoc (talk • contribs) 03:01, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

How long does soda keep?
I have a question that maybe someone might be able to answer. I do supply for a church retreat, and the question came up, "how long does a 2 liter of soda keep past the sell by date, if it is unopened and still have visible carbonation?" A couple people said a couple months, while others said as long as there is visible carbonation, and unopened, it is still good. Does anybody know the correct answer? I would greatly appreciate any help. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.133.107.126 (talk)

is co2 right for soft drinks.
can soft drinks be made fizzy by using any other concentrated gases other than co2? the whole world drinks millions of tons of carbonated drinks but the carbon dioxide is just added to the atmosphere. is there an alternative ? r.e.jones. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.30.133.145 (talk) 00:49, 20 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Not that the carbonation in drinks poses any sort of environmental threat, but I think Guinness uses nitrogen. 64.255.164.53 (talk) 01:45, 8 July 2011 (UTC)